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Originally posted by randyvs
ATS is the chit. Others get jealous and on and on. If some other site wants to make unproven claims and float a bunch of lies around about ATS. I can only promise to go as far as" Raped ape " on their ass.
This is my house !
Originally posted by Rocketman7
They are suggesting that if they could get there by boat, then they could get to other places by boat as well.
You need to understand the way scientists address delicate issues.
You can't just come out and proffer up a theory that makes your ardent associates look like fools.
Even though it happens occasionally.
You are just missing the point completely because you are not on the leading edge.
You just said that the footprints in Mexico are not 1.3 million years old, and debunked the world leading lava dater, the same person who dated the lava at Olduvai gorge. From Berkley. Renne et al. There is no more expert scientist in the world, than the man who said that lava was 1.3 million years old. And there is no more prestigious authority on anthropology than the Royal museum, which had a special exhibit on those footprints and called them footprints of modern man. So you have also debunked the Royal Museum. You have debunked the Royal Academy.
In days gone by they would put you in an orange jumpsuit for that for certain.
Originally posted by MissSmartypants
reply to post by relocator
Great thread on many levels. So...please don't leave, Relocator. Maybe we should start an Occupy ATS movement....no, wait....I occupy ATS everyday already just like the rest of you...you know who you are.
Originally posted by Hanslune
Originally posted by Rocketman7
They are suggesting that if they could get there by boat, then they could get to other places by boat as well.
You need to understand the way scientists address delicate issues.
Yes please tell me how I think - it might be useful
You can't just come out and proffer up a theory that makes your ardent associates look like fools.
Even though it happens occasionally.
Happens all the time - you get extra points for doing that I might add
You are just missing the point completely because you are not on the leading edge.
lol, then why aren't you aware of the follow on investigation of the footprints?
You just said that the footprints in Mexico are not 1.3 million years old, and debunked the world leading lava dater, the same person who dated the lava at Olduvai gorge. From Berkley. Renne et al. There is no more expert scientist in the world, than the man who said that lava was 1.3 million years old. And there is no more prestigious authority on anthropology than the Royal museum, which had a special exhibit on those footprints and called them footprints of modern man. So you have also debunked the Royal Museum. You have debunked the Royal Academy.
No I just reported the investigation that debunked it.....lol Did you read it? Again your problem is that you read only the first reports and not the follow on investigations. Now it is possible that another investigation, spurred by that last one will come out and over turn that.....we shall wait shan't we? Oh an argument form authority only works when the authority is correct.....
In days gone by they would put you in an orange jumpsuit for that for certain.
What for doing a bit of research that took me perhaps 1 minute to perform?
Again have you read the investigation on this issue?
Link
Another study
Link to radio program on the controversyedit on 7/2/12 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)edit on 7/2/12 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Rocketman7
Way back machine link...remove spaces in http
ht tp://web.archive.org/web/20070208174325/ht tp://www.mexicanfootprints.co.uk/
Do those look like marks made by a pick?
Why not look at the rest of the laser scanned footprint images there. So you follow the link...
See above it says British Museum Demonstration, click that, you see a link to the scanned images.
Oopsy, the links are broken, the images are gone, censored. Too bad.
So then lets look at a news image, a small one since we are being censored now, and even in that poor photo here...
link
you can see the pattern of a person walking.
And that is not the only footprints there and not the best example and what you get since its controversial, is a small image.
There are not one footprint, not two footprints, something like 60 footprints.
more pics
and another
here
OK if someone said to you, hey that can't be a footprint, that is a typical mark made by a pick.
And yes there are 65 of those in a pattern that matches people walking, but I think those were made by a pick.
Now for some strange reason, you have no trouble at all believing the ridiculous assertions of someone who can't tell a footprint from a hole in the ground. Why is that? Could it be you have an agenda?
What else could it be.
Originally posted by Rocketman7
So then have you ever walked on hot lava with your bare feet?
Do you think you might lift your toes too?
www.nature.com...
Thats funny, I wonder why the prestigious journal nature, did not name that image, pick mark?
Could it be that a blind man could see that it is a footprint?edit on 7-2-2012 by Rocketman7 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Rocketman7
As I said. Fact one, fact 2 fact 3. The rest is just people talking, after the fact, as you are doing now.
Yes, most of the archeological community wishes those facts would just go away.
Wikipedia cannot come out and say, well those prints have falsified all current theories of man.
Their pages are full of those theories and their reputation is placed on those theories being the truth.
I am just really thinking too much for you, and should just leave you to think on your own level, since it would take a real education to get you to the level of understanding you need, to understand what I am attempting to explain to you.
Originally posted by Rocketman7
You don't have to believe the Chinese are descendants of Olmecs. They might have come from outer space instead.
In 1995, British author David Gamon admitted in Fortean Times that he had written Sungods in Exile as a hoax under the Agamon pseudonym, inspired by the popularity of Erich von Däniken and his books on ancient astronauts. The source material for the story was taken from a 1960s magazine article in Russian Digest, and a 1973 French science fiction novel Les disques de Biem-Kara, (The discs of Biem-Kara), by Daniel Piret.
Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by Biliverdin
Star for you for pointing out my idiocy!
And the worst thing is i have been so many times, i have absolutely no excuse! No, time to stand up and take one for the team
Originally posted by Rocketman7
The most prestigious anthropological museum in the world, the Royal Museum of London, Home of Charles Darwin
Originally posted by FatherLukeDuke
Originally posted by Rocketman7
The most prestigious anthropological museum in the world, the Royal Museum of London, Home of Charles Darwin
You keep mentioning this place, but as I Londoner who has visited all the major museums several times, I've never heard of it.
I'm not sure there even is an anthropological museum in London, of any note anyway. Maybe you mean the British Museum? Or maybe the Natural History Museum?
If you are going to make an appeal to authority, it might be worth checking that said authority actually exists.
And I don't believe Charles Darwin actually lived in a museum.
Provides extensively validated data that directly challenges current theories on the peopling of the Americas.
The presence of 40,000 years old human footprints means that the ‘Clovis First’ model of human occupation can no longer be accepted as the first evidence of human presence in the Americas. New routes of migration that explain the existence of these much earlier sites now need urgent consideration.
Location of the footprints and background
A total of 269 animal and human footprints, both adult’s and children’s, were identified in a small abandoned quarry close to the Cerro Toluquilla Volcano. The volcano is located in the Valsequillo Basin, south of the city of Puebla, which is 130km southeast of Mexico City.
In total 269 human and animal prints were discovered, preserved in coarse ash. Approximately 60% of the prints were human, with 36% of the human prints classified as children’s because of their size. Several types of animal prints were also identified including dogs, big cats and animals with cloven feet, possibly deer, camels or bovids. Several short trails of footprints are visible in some parts of the quarry.
The Royal Society is a Fellowship of the world's most eminent scientists and is the oldest scientific academy in continuous existence.
The British Museum, in London, is widely considered to be one of the world's greatest museums of human history and culture.
Nature, first published on 4 November 1869, is ranked the world's most cited interdisciplinary scientific journal by the Science Edition of the 2010 Journal Citation Reports
....
As with most other professional scientific journals, articles undergo an initial screening by the editor, followed by peer review (in which other scientists, chosen by the editor for expertise with the subject matter but who have no connection to the research under review, will read and critique articles), before publication.
Originally posted by Rocketman7
Originally posted by FatherLukeDuke
Originally posted by Rocketman7
The most prestigious anthropological museum in the world, the Royal Museum of London, Home of Charles Darwin
You keep mentioning this place, but as I Londoner who has visited all the major museums several times, I've never heard of it.
I'm not sure there even is an anthropological museum in London, of any note anyway. Maybe you mean the British Museum? Or maybe the Natural History Museum?
If you are going to make an appeal to authority, it might be worth checking that said authority actually exists.
And I don't believe Charles Darwin actually lived in a museum.
Royal Society Exhibition - British Museum
From the website created for the prestigious special event...
Provides extensively validated data that directly challenges current theories on the peopling of the Americas.
Provides extensivley validated data.
The fact that they did not know, the lava in question was 1.3 million years old, is entirely beside the point.
Location of the footprints and background
A total of 269 animal and human footprints, both adult’s and children’s, were identified in a small abandoned quarry close to the Cerro Toluquilla Volcano. The volcano is located in the Valsequillo Basin, south of the city of Puebla, which is 130km southeast of Mexico City.
In total 269 human and animal prints were discovered, preserved in coarse ash. Approximately 60% of the prints were human, with 36% of the human prints classified as children’s because of their size. Several types of animal prints were also identified including dogs, big cats and animals with cloven feet, possibly deer, camels or bovids. Several short trails of footprints are visible in some parts of the quarry.
ht tp://www.nature.com/news/2005/050704/images/footprint.jpg
Paul R. Renne (b. 1957 San Antonio, Texas) is the director of the Berkeley Geochronology Center and also adjunct professor of geology in the Department of Earth & Planetary Science, University of California, Berkeley (UC Berkeley).[1][2] Renne is considered a leading expert on the argon–argon dating technique and is interested in paleomagnetism in Earth history, precisely dating flood basalts, particularly the Siberian Traps, and large igneous province volcanism in general, and paleoanthropology.[1][3] Renne received his A.B. and his Ph.D. in geology from UC Berkeley.
ARCHEOLOGY AND PALEOANTHROPOLOGY
Clark, J.D., Beyene, Y., WoldeGabriel, G., William Hart, W.K., Renne, P.R., Gilbert, H., Defleur, A., Suwa, G., Katoh, S., Ludwig, K.R., Boisserie, J.-R., Asfaw, B., and White, T.D., 2003, Stratigraphic, chronological, and behavioral contexts of Pleistocene Homo sapiens from Middle Awash, Ethiopia: Nature 423, 747-752.
Rook, L., Renne, P.R., Benvenuti, M., and Papini, M., 2000, Geochronology of Oreopithecus-bearing succession at Baccinello (Italy) and the extinction pattern of European Miocene hominoids: Journal of Human Evolution 39: 577-582.
Deino, A.L., Renne, P.R., and Swisher, C.C, 1998, 40Ar/39Ar Dating in Paleoanthropology and Archeology: Evolutionary Anthropology 6 (2): 63-75.
Renne and his colleagues used two dating techniques, one examining the ratios of chemical isotopes in the ash and another looking for magnetic signals from the sediments.
The 40,000-year date was based on radiocarbon analysis of shells in the layer above the ash at the nearby Toloquilla quarry.
RESEARCH
Geochronology, stratigraphy and geochemistry of Cindery Tuff in Pliocene hominid-bearing sediments of the Middle Awash, Ethiopia
Nature Article (01 Mar 1984)
Age of early hominids
Nature Scientific Correspondence (17 Aug 1995)
Laser-fusion 40 Ar/ 39 Ar dating of Bed I, Olduvai Gorge, Tanzania
Nature Letters to Editor (14 Nov 1991)
Originally posted by Rocketman7
Re: the Mexican footprints
Renne and his colleagues used two dating techniques, one examining the ratios of chemical isotopes in the ash and another looking for magnetic signals from the sediments.
The 40,000-year date was based on radiocarbon analysis of shells in the layer above the ash at the nearby Toloquilla quarry.
RESEARCH
Geochronology, stratigraphy and geochemistry of Cindery Tuff in Pliocene hominid-bearing sediments of the Middle Awash, Ethiopia
Nature Article (01 Mar 1984)
Age of early hominids
Nature Scientific Correspondence (17 Aug 1995)
Laser-fusion 40 Ar/ 39 Ar dating of Bed I, Olduvai Gorge, Tanzania
Nature Letters to Editor (14 Nov 1991)
Martin Redfern is a senior producer in the BBC Radio Science Unit, where he has worked for most of the last 25 years. He joined the BBC as a studio manager after graduating from University College London, where he studied geology. He has spent time as a science producer in BBC TV and as science news editor for BBC World Service. Most of his work now is on science feature programs for Radio 4 and World Service, where he enjoys pushing the boundaries of science. In 2005, he won the Science Writers' Award from Association of British Science Writers for "the best scripted/edited radio programme on a science subject." He has also written extensively on science for magazines and newspapers and, more recently, popular science books. In quiet moments he enjoys the natural world and especially the small corner of it behind his home in Kent.
Originally posted by Rocketman7
So ok, what about this?
planetearth.nerc.ac.uk...
And if you have not studied archeology you might think I mean someone today. No, modern man refers to humans with the same body type as people of today. They have the same intellectual capacity, the same body.
The world leading expert on lava dating for anthropology, dated some lava in Central Mexico at 1.3 million years old.
The most prestigious anthropological museum in the world, the Royal Museum of London, Home of Charles Darwin et al, and backed by the Royal Academy, the most prestigious scientific association in the world, home of Sir Isaac Newton, et al, made claim those prints were the prints of modern man, along side dogs and cats and cloven hoofed animals.
That is fact three.
The fact that they had not yet dated the lava when they made that claim, is entirely beside the point.