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Are aliens/ETs real or simply in your mind?

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posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 01:32 PM
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I'm afraid I pretty much disregard these sorts of threads now, they are pointless. Yet another person who won't accept anything unless they themselves experience it firsthand. Ok.. and your point is? Just because you have some self-created ideal for what constitutes belief and proof, doesn't mean everyone else shares your ideas. I am sure you, like all those who came before you, are dead-certain you are right, and everyone else is wrong. I hate to break it to you, but you really don't know everything. And your firm belief system actually doesn't set the precedent for belief systems everywhere.

You provide no proof of your own, other than the "you didn't shake hands with an alient so they can't exist" argument. Old and tired, and doesn't mean a thing. next?




posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 08:16 PM
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Originally posted by The Shrike

Originally posted by greyer
For instance, in the decade of 1970 there were 8,000 cattle abducted by UFOs in the southwest US (confirmed by the Obama administration), when the activity decreased in the late 90s, 2,000 cattle had been abducted by UFOs between the year 2000 and 2005 in South America. Not only cattle abductions but the same kind of activity that happened at skinwalker ranch, so whoever was abducting cattle in UFOs went down there (there was a famous daylight abduction at skinwalker). Let us not forget that aliens came down to an amazon town in Brazil during the late 70s and the government made contact with them.


Your reply is a synthesis of the popularly-known events


nobody knows some of those things. It is people like you that make it hard for people to know because you think they don't.


Originally posted by The Shrike
without any reference to factual details.


I seriously doubt it, a scientist handle NASA equipment, making humidifier instruments to go onboard NASA shuttles, and able to set up a laboratory to detect electronic frequencies coming from objects throughout the sky in the whole Albuquerque area. The government lying to everybody for so many years. This is not Pawn Stars, you don't need an expertise to come in and certify the evidence to make sure it's real.
edit on 6-2-2012 by greyer because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 10:02 PM
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reply to post by Pimander
 


A truism: Belief: 2.Something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction.

So the question then is how does a person accepts as true or holds an opinion or conviction? Simply, mental conditioning. If you're familiar with belief systems and how they're formed, then you just don't up and accept let's say, hearsay. You know that a claim is just words unless that claim is supported by evidence. But the majority of individuals are not questioning individuals 'cause if they were there would not be any religions since mental conditioning would eventually cease. But to think that humans can be raised free of mental conditioning is an impossibility. Mental conditioning is ingrained except for the few of us who have never been affected and are free thinkers without any mental baggage holding us back, controlling our behavior.

In my opinion, aliens are an article of faith existing only in the minds of those who have conditioned themselves to give them a non-physical "reality". An atheist can still believe in aliens while denying the gods of religion. A skeptic is another story denying religion because there is nothing to support it/them while still accepting the reality of UFOs especially after having a solid experience or being familiar with the huge amount of circumstancial evidence for something has to exist in order to result in the images captured by millions. The only question that remains is "What are they, where are they from, and why are they here and keeping themselves isolated?"



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by SonoftheSun
reply to post by The Shrike
 


Hello again The Shrike,

I appreciated your reply. But...



You can't say that you don't know where ETs come from, etc., because to do so means you've accepted their reality. Something has to exist to wonder about its origins.


Agree.

Let's just agree to call it "speculation"...



A long list of evidence but no actual proof? Evidence and proof are synonimous! Presently, there is no evidence/proof that ETs are among us.


Disagree.

There was a lot of evidence that OJ murdered. None of it turned into actual proof and so he walked. There was a lot of evidence pointing to the fact that the earth was round but until actual proof, it was still claimed as flat. There was a lot of evidence to the fact that the earth was circling the Sun but until actual proof, we were the center of the universe.

There are tons of evidence that ET is visiting us. But until there is actual proof, it's as good as saying that the earth is flat, we are the center of the universe and OJ is a Saint...



Howdy. I also appreciate your reply but the points you make are slightly unsharp.

There was actual proof that OJ did the acts but it wasn't that the proof was not up to snuff (a little play on words there,
), it was the way it was presented and the low skills of the prosecutors. Everybody screwed up and the defense had a field day.

The flat earth theory was not advanced by the ancients who knew the earth was round. Eratosthenes of Cyrene, ancient Greek astronomer, went on to become the world's first geographer, inventing the concepts of latitude and longitude that we still use today, and constructed the first models and maps based on a spherical Earth.

There is no evidence, whatsoever, that ETs are visiting us, not one iota of irrefutable evidence has ever been presented. Implants, scars, etc., are not evidence.. All that exists is reports and claims by individuals and you know where that's at. Besides, what evidence is there to support that whatever is visiting us is of ET nature? Where can one find even one convincing proof?



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 10:32 PM
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reply to post by Lulzaroonie
 


Good thoughtful comments although I don't share the same enthusiasm. No one on planet earth can answer the questions of what are UFOs, where do they come from, why are they here, why are they so elusive, etc. Additionally, while most of human aircraft is piloted by humans, no one knows what "pilots" the UFOs if anything. And would the same species emerge from the various objects that we see? And how can anyone make the jump to thinking that these unknown objects come here from outside our neighborhood (the moon but no farther)?

However, I want to reply to part of your discourse.


There is just as much of a chance of there being aliens as there is of there having been a magical man who turned water into wine, healed the sick and died on a cross for all our sins...


That is a great equation as neither has any evidence to support their reality.



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 10:36 PM
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Originally posted by blackreign2012
reply to post by The Shrike
 


"Imagination never produced a single dollar bill"

That's weird ... you can't produce any inventions without imagination. Inventions are what makes a "payday". Imagination is greater than knowledge, as without it you would not be able to fly in an airplane or type on a computer. You can have all the knowledge in the world but without the imagination to use it ... you would't make much progress.


edit on 6-2-2012 by blackreign2012 because: (no reason given)


I know that it sounds as if it doesn't make any sense. But what I meant, and I should have been clear about it, is that nothing is created in the world of imagination until it is created physically. IOW, mental versus physical. Not all that is imagined become physical reality. If this is not clear enough, bring it back.



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 10:55 PM
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Originally posted by rickymouse
reply to post by Klassified
 

So if I was told by a rock that I was once Apollo I should believe it? I think what can be brought out in hypnosis can also be inner memories of things you may have heard or seen in you're past. Like when you were watching tv as a baby. These things are not known by us but our subconscious could have a knowledge of them. Maybe we have past lives, who really knows for sure. I see possibilities on both sides and have no real way of knowing what is real. We are what we know, even though we don't know we know it. Pride of knowledge blinds us, protection of our knowledge binds us.


I agree as reincarnation is one of those concepts I don't accept. And our subconscious is the storehouse of our memories complete with all of the emotions of the moment. It takes skill to access these memories and possibly the most skilled hypnotist was Milton Erickson who was not a traditional hypnotist as far as using traditional patter.

I think that if an "abductee" came to him the result would be in the "abductee" just having a vivid imagination.



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 02:03 AM
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It must have evidences.



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 03:55 AM
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Maybe real but other videos are Hoax.



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 04:41 AM
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"Are aliens/ETs real or simply in your mind?"

Are they real? Well, if you mean intelligent beings from outside our own world, then my answer would have to be more than likely. Statistically, with the amount of stars per galaxy and the amount of galaxies in the known universe, and the fact that we as a species exist in conditions that are more than likely extraordinarily similar on many, many other planets in our galaxy alone, I think that the numbers pretty much say "Hey, it's safe to say intelligent life exists somewhere else too."

What no-one can do is actually prove it, and until hard evidence is presented in some undeniable manner, I won't say "Yep. They certainly exist."

I will say that in my own mind, I'm thinking that it's a certainty that they exist though.


I won't say it though. Saying that I'm thinking it is TOTALLY different!

Cheers.



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 05:22 PM
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Originally posted by Qemyst
"Are aliens/ETs real or simply in your mind?"

Are they real? Well, if you mean intelligent beings from outside our own world, then my answer would have to be more than likely. Statistically, with the amount of stars per galaxy and the amount of galaxies in the known universe, and the fact that we as a species exist in conditions that are more than likely extraordinarily similar on many, many other planets in our galaxy alone, I think that the numbers pretty much say "Hey, it's safe to say intelligent life exists somewhere else too."

What no-one can do is actually prove it, and until hard evidence is presented in some undeniable manner, I won't say "Yep. They certainly exist."

I will say that in my own mind, I'm thinking that it's a certainty that they exist though.


I won't say it though. Saying that I'm thinking it is TOTALLY different!

Cheers.


I appreciate your comments but you voice the standard, popular view that everyone else does because you are operating on belief. I started this topic to point out to the members that every thread that is started here dealing with aliens/ETs does not rely on any evidence and they are just opinions which have no weight and discussing them is useless.

ETs on the other hand indicate that they would be from outside the earth and their reality depends on questionable numbers since we've never had anything solid to prove we are being "visited" by non-earthlings. Saying that there are x amount of planets and that some of them are capable of having life is just a romantic idea fueled by movies and media.

Until an alien/ET appears, with or without a craft (UFO) to humankind and can prove beyond a doubt that it is from another celestial body and can provide irrefutable evidence that we can verify with one of our own craft flitting around outer space, then they are only our own creation.



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 11:08 PM
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Originally posted by The Shrike
I started this topic to point out to the members that every thread that is started here dealing with aliens/ETs does not rely on any evidence and they are just opinions which have no weight and discussing them is useless.


I agree that all the threads here do not rely on any evidence, simply because there is no evidence to rely on.
I disagree that it is pointless to discuss things though. I see the threads that are like "Can we win if aliens attack?" and "Are aliens real?" and "What would aliens want with us?" and so on and so forth. I don't think its pointless at all to discuss those types of topics. No evidence is presented in them, sure, but hypothesizing isn't pointless. By the logic that discussing ET's is useless, one could say that discussing many topics totally unrelated to ET's is useless, if by useless you mean "gets us no-where and changes nothing."


Originally posted by The Shrike
Saying that there are x amount of planets and that some of them are capable of having life is just a romantic idea fueled by movies and media.


I disagree that it's a romantic idea. That's statistics. Even Hawking would tell you that statistically, it's almost a certainty that life exists elsewhere in our universe. Our universe probably has a lot more life in it than we can even hope to imagine.


Originally posted by The Shrike
Until an alien/ET appears, with or without a craft (UFO) to humankind and can prove beyond a doubt that it is from another celestial body and can provide irrefutable evidence that we can verify with one of our own craft flitting around outer space, then they are only our own creation.


I agree that we cannot say "Yes. Intelligent life does exist outside our own world." because there is no proof.
I disagree that the idea of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe is of our own creation, because again, statistics would suggest it does exist. Statistics aren't a made up idea, they are numbers, and those numbers weigh in favor of intelligent life existing elsewhere.

What IS made up by our species, imho, is the idea of what these other life-forms would look like, should they exist, how they would act, whether they would be hostile/friendly, etc etc.

But... even with the numbers weighing heavily in favor of life existing elsewhere, and probably being abundant throughout the universe, I refuse to say that life exists elsewhere as a certainty.

Cheers.
edit on 7-2-2012 by Qemyst because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 11:33 PM
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I don't mind straying from the thread topic to have a lively discourse. But all I can tell you is that if someone claims that they've had an experience with what they consider to be an alien/ET, I don't buy it. You can call the claim witness testimony, I call it a tale. As long as the claim is not supported with evidence. If someone tells me that someone told them they had been abducted I'm listening to hearsay, I don't buy it.


Okaay.. so what do you call the cases that -do- have evidence?


You act as if there has been no hard evidence, whatsoever. That's just not the case. Unless of course, you follow the tried-and-true methodology of "if it's seen on radar, by multiple witnesses, and does things we can't explain, it's obviously black project.. secret tech.. something along those lines." The last bastion of debunkers who refuse to believe it may be something we can't explain.

There have been plenty of cases where objects are seen on radar. UFOs have turned off electronics in fighter jets. Well documented cases, documented in no-nonsense sources, such as military reports and so on.

I don't really understand your position I guess. If a rancher who could honestly not care less about UFOs on a Texas ranch sees a huge object over his head, that fills his entire field of vision, how is this "in his head?" Either he is lying, or telling the truth. I don't think he hallucinated the object. It's difficult to confuse a huge floating object with say, a helicopter.

There is a sad lack of attention given to eyewitness testimony these days. Some people (perhaps like the OP), have no faith in other humans to report an anomalous event. If multiple witnesses report seeing a huge triangular object flying over their heads, or nearby, I am not so distrustful of their judgement of what they saw. I think I would realize that was not a plane, a helicopter, a balloon, or a hallucination, and I trust other humans could also makes the same reasonable conclusions.

For the record, I feel that most abductions are not actually happening, all crop circles are man-made, and most (or all) of the videos taken lately of dots and orange lights are mundane. I think the % of actual sightings has remained fairly constant over the years - it's fairly low. Sadly the advent of easily usable video equipment you can carry in your pocket, has made it so every dot and light in the sky gets filmed and claimed to be something it's not. And so belief has plummeted - if all those are not actually alien craft, obviously they don't really exist.. right? I don't believe that.



posted on Feb, 8 2012 @ 12:48 AM
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Originally posted by fleabit

I don't mind straying from the thread topic to have a lively discourse. But all I can tell you is that if someone claims that they've had an experience with what they consider to be an alien/ET, I don't buy it. You can call the claim witness testimony, I call it a tale. As long as the claim is not supported with evidence. If someone tells me that someone told them they had been abducted I'm listening to hearsay, I don't buy it.


Okaay.. so what do you call the cases that -do- have evidence?


You act as if there has been no hard evidence, whatsoever. That's just not the case. Unless of course, you follow the tried-and-true methodology of "if it's seen on radar, by multiple witnesses, and does things we can't explain, it's obviously black project.. secret tech.. something along those lines." The last bastion of debunkers who refuse to believe it may be something we can't explain.

There have been plenty of cases where objects are seen on radar. UFOs have turned off electronics in fighter jets. Well documented cases, documented in no-nonsense sources, such as military reports and so on.

I don't really understand your position I guess. If a rancher who could honestly not care less about UFOs on a Texas ranch sees a huge object over his head, that fills his entire field of vision, how is this "in his head?" Either he is lying, or telling the truth. I don't think he hallucinated the object. It's difficult to confuse a huge floating object with say, a helicopter.

There is a sad lack of attention given to eyewitness testimony these days. Some people (perhaps like the OP), have no faith in other humans to report an anomalous event. If multiple witnesses report seeing a huge triangular object flying over their heads, or nearby, I am not so distrustful of their judgement of what they saw. I think I would realize that was not a plane, a helicopter, a balloon, or a hallucination, and I trust other humans could also makes the same reasonable conclusions.

For the record, I feel that most abductions are not actually happening, all crop circles are man-made, and most (or all) of the videos taken lately of dots and orange lights are mundane. I think the % of actual sightings has remained fairly constant over the years - it's fairly low. Sadly the advent of easily usable video equipment you can carry in your pocket, has made it so every dot and light in the sky gets filmed and claimed to be something it's not. And so belief has plummeted - if all those are not actually alien craft, obviously they don't really exist.. right? I don't believe that.


My position is really simple to understand. The only cases that have evidence, circumstancial evidence, are UFOs. We're still dealing with alleged witness reports but I don't bother with those, I stick strictly to those that are supported with photos and videos, alway keeping in mind that hoaxes will be perpetrated.

But this thread is not about UFOs. It is about the alleged entities called aliens/ETs. And since all we have are claims I don't give them any weight. Before I had my first UFO sighting I didn't accept UFOs as real but was curious as to what people were reporting. Once I had the experience, then I knew that UFOs were real. But since there does not seem to be any evidence for aliens I'm back at square one in accepting their reality.

And since I know that humans tend to be believers and do not require evidence, all reports of aliens are from believers and in my opinion I don't accept that even a single report has any validity. All that is happening is that we have only hearsay.

"For the record, I feel that most abductions are not actually happening, all crop circles are man-made," you express my opinion except that I would change "most abductions" to "all abductions" or reports of abductions. No one has ever really been abducted.

We don't know for a fact that UFOs are alien craft. They're non-human but that's as far as we can take it.



posted on Feb, 8 2012 @ 02:13 AM
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Originally posted by The Shrike
In my opinion, aliens are an article of faith existing only in the minds of those who have conditioned themselves to give them a non-physical "reality". An atheist can still believe in aliens while denying the gods of religion. A skeptic is another story denying religion because there is nothing to support it/them while still accepting the reality of UFOs especially after having a solid experience or being familiar with the huge amount of circumstancial evidence for something has to exist in order to result in the images captured by millions. The only question that remains is "What are they, where are they from, and why are they here and keeping themselves isolated?"

If you are saying that you don't know whether SOME UFOs are alien then I would agree that you have adopted a skeptical position regarding the existence of aliens. In other words you admit you don't know for sure.

On the other hand, I still maintain that you cannot at this point say scientifically whether God exists. It follows, therefore, that atheism is a BELIEF SYSTEM based on the unproven ASSUMPTION that there is no God. You may believe that there is no God but you are not skeptical of your position if you do.

Many scientists, including Richard Dawkins (despite the fact that he is right about RELIGION but not atheism), and many educated laymen take the atheist position because they are afraid of not believing anything or not knowing.

I agree with Richard Feynman.

"I was born not knowing and have had only a little time to change that here and there." ~ Richard Feynman

I suspect there is probably an intelligence inherent in The Universe. Call it God if you like. However, I accept that ultimately it remains a mystery. The same could be said to apply to aliens existing (although some people may KNOW that they do). That doesn't frighten me.

Oh, and to any angry Christians out there.

edit on 8/2/12 by Pimander because: add hicks



posted on Feb, 8 2012 @ 01:39 PM
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I'd say UFOs are extraterrestial visitors from earth-like planets of some other solar systems. (Some UFOs could also be e.g. aircraft, weather balloons, the American government flying crashed ones, and even visitors from our future.) They monitor earth, and may not interfere.

Also, 2012 is the last year of the Piscean Age, which ends on December 21. So, it has less than a year to go. There'll thus be a great increase now in the number of UFO sightings. But, there could be many low ethics aliens coming here now, as like attracts like. (So, the Christian belief (It is just a belief.) about them being demons wouldn't be far off.)

I'm also into Star Trek. I'd say the Star Trek universe gives one a good idea of the real universe.

Sometime after December 21, 2012 will be the official ending of earth's isolation in the universe. That'll be quite something. (Be much like the Christian belief of Jesus' second coming.)

I'd say the date for that should be April 5, 2013. That's unless that date isn't too soon, or needs to occur earlier. The reason for the date, is to symbolize that link between the Star Trek universe and the real universe. In the Star Trek universe it occurs on April 5, 2063. So, the 2013 date would be exactly 50 years before. When Star Trek came out in the 1960s it was ahead of its time, and still is. Also, the Star Trek universe can be symbolic of inner space, and the real universe symbolic of outer space. It would also be humanity taking its first steps into a new frontier. It makes me think of something I read:- People believe in UFOs because they know there's something better somewhere, some higher form of civilisation, where the human spirit can soar free and untrammeled, where life has real meaning.

There will of course be the conservatives and other opponents of it.
edit on 8-2-2012 by Aquarius1011 because: Neaten and add info.



posted on Feb, 8 2012 @ 01:51 PM
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I see so many people.. some former NASA scientists or employees who either been directly related or know people who can confirm there is reverse-engineering and extraterrestrial that saying everyone who quits such job starts talking about aliens to get some more attention and to fill his pansion times.. sounds unsersious.

It's like as if you're claiming that should you quit some similar job, you are immediately told to spread lies and talk about aliens just to disinfo and that every single person does that for the same reason? Where is the common sense?



posted on Feb, 8 2012 @ 04:57 PM
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Well, let me ask you this then.

If UFOs are seen that defy current human technology - and I am talking about obvious aircraft, not amorphous blobs of light or something, like say.. the huge triangles, etc., what do you think they are? I agree - there may be no aliens at all. But they are something. If not of terran origin, what are they? I think many think "aliens" because it just makes the most sense. It does to me at any rate.

I think you do humans a discredit by disregarding all eyewitness tesimony however. It's funny how eyewitness testimony can put someone away for life, but even in droves, is ignored with UFOs. No wonder people are so reluctant to come forward with sightings. I agree you need to be selective, but still - when multiple police see a UFO (and even talk about it over the radio), but it's not filmed.. it didn't happen in your opinion?



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 04:48 PM
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as an abductee myself I can tell you that they are real and not a figment of someone's imagination

I've seen UFO's myself a few times and they are real and not controlled by our government but I will not say any further



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 05:27 PM
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They're real but they are demons. I saw a little brown alien at the foot of my bed. The experience was exactly the same as my encounters with demons during sleep paralysis.



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