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Are aliens/ETs real or simply in your mind?

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posted on Feb, 5 2012 @ 01:18 AM
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reply to post by The Shrike
 


There are theories pointing to this outcome that UFOs could be a product of the mind. Time after time when ufo sightings began to level up, the consciousness produced more phantom ufo phenomenon. But why does the human mind produces objects of such physical and non-physical nature?

If they are only products of the brain why flying crafts and not ships, trains or other types of vehicles? Hallucinations can be linked to many cases. But it does not answer how the very first UFO came to be. It can be traced back to the ancient times. There is an ocean of evidence that are in no way attributed to hoaxes, human ignorance, misinterpretations or even pure lies.
edit on 5-2-2012 by radkrish because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 5 2012 @ 01:38 AM
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Originally posted by The Shrike

Originally posted by nineix

I think 'proof' might be satisfied if people like Mr. MUFON Dan Aykroyd, and other personalities with a bankroll pooled resources, and used abductees for BAIT.

If there's aliens and abductions going on, then, what's the point in chasing UFOs, and filming the sky?

Monitor select abductees on a 24/7, and next so-called abduction event that happens, you get data.
That data will either indicate the abductee in question is delusional and it's all in their head, or, could lead to evidence of an actual real physical event.

If physical, then, any advanced technology, no matter how advanced, will have limitations, and from there, it's just a game of finding those limitations to mouse-trap some sneak booty probing buggers.
That is, of course, if such is real.

MUFON, right now, is just a paper collection agency. They've got 50 years of paper and evidence, which in essence amounts to nothing. 50 more years, and they'll have another 50 years of paper collected.
MUFON needs to go on offensive.


For all of the hoopla that MUFON generates in the UFO industry, it is worthless. There have been many similar organizations that never amounted to anything other than collecting data AFTER the fact so in reality the data collected was fanciful hearsay. I used to be such a collector of data and saw the writing on the wall and abandoned further connection to uselessness.

I attended a MUFO meeting back in the day and I never heard a bigger bunch of morons. I didn't join.

UFOs don't lend themselves to research, only allowing themselves to be photographed, filmed and/or videotaped at a distance!.


I mostly agree.
From one standpoint, MUFON in its current and past format is mostly useless.
As an archive for anecdotal data, sure, if you like lots and lots of stacks of paper. Some people are kinky like that.

From what I've seen of meetings, it's all a circle jerk where sometimes outside speakers are paid by member dues to pop in with an interesting story or slide show.

As I suggested, IMO, the money paying for speakers, and member dues could be better used on the offensive. Lojack some abductees, and put them on 24/7 surveillance.
With a large enough pool of 'abductees', you'll get some interesting data.
Some of that data will strongly indicate that some, if not most of the abductees are simply delusional people that need a hug and some medication.
IF, however, as stated before, something physical is occurring in just one case, just one, then, we've got data to work with towards finding out what this strange phenomenon is.

SOMETHING is going on.
Is it aliens? I don't know.
Channel some proper funding and monitoring of abductees to find out.
It beats chasing after events AFTER the fact. It's proactive.



EDIT: I just remembered something where there's been speculation that aliens, UFOs, and other paranormal experiences are Thought Forms.
In essence, either we create and project these thought forms, or, these thought forms are semi-parasitic yet independent and capable of 'living' in and through our thoughts. It's a fun and strange subject.
A simple thought form example would be a meme; a persistent idea that seems to survive on it's own, hopping from person to person, replicating.

Here's a forum topic on the idea too: Aliens, UFOS, paranormal as Thought Forms
In that respect, Aliens and UFOs would be both IN and INDEPENDENT of our minds/ and possibly even creations of our own minds in the respect that Independent self replicating thought forms 'impregnate' our consciousness.
The argument can get pretty darned abstract and surreal. It's slippery stuff that can shoot off in all sorts of messy directions.



edit on 5-2-2012 by nineix because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2012 @ 03:10 AM
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what do you consider "evidence", OP?
an artifact?
a body?
some unknown fluid?
a crash site?
how about scars?
have plenty of those on my body.
could take some pictures for you, OP.
it would be easy to say they are from something else.
i have created several threads.
posted pictures i've drawn.
shown my scars.
is that "evidence", OP?
the few people i've been honest with about my experiences
have also said it was "just in my head".
i'd take a camera with me on my next "visit"
but "they" tend to frown on that sort of thing.



posted on Feb, 5 2012 @ 03:41 AM
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Originally posted by kmarx
what do you consider "evidence", OP?
an artifact?
a body?
some unknown fluid?
a crash site?
how about scars?
have plenty of those on my body.
could take some pictures for you, OP.
it would be easy to say they are from something else.
i have created several threads.
posted pictures i've drawn.
shown my scars.
is that "evidence", OP?
the few people i've been honest with about my experiences
have also said it was "just in my head".
i'd take a camera with me on my next "visit"
but "they" tend to frown on that sort of thing.


Set up a camera similar in style to Paranormal Activity movies?
If UFO, ETs know the electricity, attach camera to battery backup.UPS system available at any computer place. If chips get fried, put it in a Faraday cage. If ETs mind control you to turn it off, then, put it in a cage with a lock and put the key somewhere really inconvenient like the trunk of your car.

Keep trying to get video. any technological civilization is going to have limitations. If you're having real physical experiences, then, keep trying to do some probing of your own to find out what those limitations are so you can get video evidence.
If you can get consistent good video evidence, then, that's good indication you'd worked out a way around the sneaky spooky buggers' countermeasures.
Next step would be using similar techniques used in getting consistent good video to lay a TRAP and do some turnabout in capturing a LIVE specimen for debut on broadcast television Live at 5 whatever.

Why is it that abductees don't do this? Is the selection process keen on picking people that are just lazy that give up to their 'fate' and don't keep trying everything?
It boggles my mind.
If you don't have the money for all the equipment to run a proper surveillance program on yourself, start knocking on doors. Go to MUFON and tell em you're an abductee and you want to do the whole 24/7 video monitoring, with prison style GPS ankle bracelet for tracking and the whole thing of everything.
Send emails to Dan Akroyd, head of MUFON, and tell him you need equipment to monitor you.
Approach any and every other organization you can find for donation or contribution of equipment to put you on 24/7 monitoring.

If you're having experineces and those experiences are physical then WHAT's stopping you from trying to at least capture video?
Electronics can be hardened against EMP.
Options are available.





posted on Feb, 5 2012 @ 04:38 AM
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reply to post by nineix
 


your post implies that abductees haven't take counter-measure.
it also implies that the only place you are abducted is in your bedroom.
both of these assumptions are inaccurate.
i have set up multiple cameras on my property.
two in my bedroom.
one in the hallway.
one in the kitchen.
and one facing the house.
i have arranged and rearranged the location and positioning of my cameras probably hundreds of times in five years.
in the instance of a "visit".
several things will occur,
almost every electronic device in the house will shut off at the same time.
i've had countless alarm clocks that simply no longer function after a "visit".
the event occurs as normal.
or..
i'm "instructed" to stand up
walk down the hallway
and into a room without a camera.
or i walk outside still under constant "instruction" mind you
shuffle to the woods out of the outside camera's LOS.
i'm only seen on the camera again sometimes hours later.

believe me when i say it is frustrating.
i have tried to capture video for years.
when it happens.
ATS gets it first.
that is a promise.
i don't want money. i don't want a book deal. i don't like giving speeches. i just want people to know that this is real and not just a cry for attention/mental instability.
i realize that is probably not what you we;re looking for in a response nineix.
but it is all i can give you.

cheers.
edit on 5-2-2012 by kmarx because: engrish



posted on Feb, 5 2012 @ 05:19 AM
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reply to post by The Shrike
 


Somehow I don't look forward to your reply on what I'm about to say...
Putting on my "I'm mentally disabled or challenged, delusional" shield...


I do not know where extraterrestrial beings are from, or when they're from or what they are for that matter...

So I will only address the following: Are we or have we been visited?

Clearly, there is a long list of evidence. But no actual proof.

So here's how I see it:

Everyone agrees that there must be life other than ours in the universe. Anyone denying this is not simply close minded but a fool. But could such life visit us?

Let's use logic. Expeditions.

We found out at one point that there could be other land out there, beyond the sea. We found out that we finally had the means to travel months on such a quest. And we set sail. We had the means and we did.

We found out at one point that we could leave the earth, explore the coldness of space and sent expeditions to the moon. Simply because we had the means and we did.

The future is exciting. We'll eventually set sail for Mars...then Jupiter...and eventually out of our solar system. Because we will find the means and do it.

Now, a civilization hundreds of thousands of years more advanced than us. What would they visit?

Because they have the means and do it.

Being mentally challenged is to find out how they do it.





posted on Feb, 5 2012 @ 05:19 AM
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reply to post by kmarx
 


This is a subject that's fascinated me for a long time.
Kudos to you for trying!!!

Where do you live? If I'm anywhere close, I'll volunteer to come re-position your cameras into places you don't know, and then afterwards, we need strong post hypnotic suggestions for you to totally ignore that cameras are present as well as 'forget' where any are that you see or notice.


Further, for everything turning off, as suggested previously, there's the UPS solution, and for things getting their electronics fried, there's the Faraday cage approach.

Another solution too, though potentially uncomfortable, is to get a time lock, or some complicated lock system and chain yourself to the bed? This is just a wild guess though.

Something else that could be interesting to try is to have a GPS enabled phone with tracking/logging, or one of those child monitoring GPS devices that records all movement and positioning.
Since the data is secure and hosted by a 3rd party, thus tamper resistant, you'd then possibly have a GPS map and time log of any travelling you do.
If this travelling involves jumps over vast distances in an extremely short period of time, well, that could be a very interesting data point.

If over the course of several abduction experiences, the GPS log shows a consistent destination, like some undiscovered DUMB, or some other secret base/site/location, then that could also be a very interesting data point, as well as a LOCATION to go check out.


In summary: get someone else to rearrange your cameras with UPS power backup + Fraday cages, so you don't have first-hand hands-on knowledge of where they are, and follow that up with post hypnotic suggestion along the lones that all the cameras are gone and no longer exist on your property, so IF there are indeed aliens and they ARE reading your mind, there's a chance they'll get surface impression that there's no cameras.
Lojack yourself with GPS, and add the reasons for that on the list of things to 'forget' in post hypnotic suggestion so, you won't be your own enemy and tell tale when ETs take control/read your mind.



I still firmly believe, though frustrating, and difficult, and yet accomplished, that IF this is a real valid physical case of abduction, for any abductee, there's a limit to their technology and we can find that limitation then exploit it.


Further, if you can remember, tell the buggers I volunteer for abduction. I'll trade places with you.

Yeah, i know, this sounds absolutely nuts, but, I'd certainly love to meet some extraterrestrial and have a 'chat'.

I'm a skeptic, but, I'm a skeptic that recognizes SOMETHING is going on, and I wants me some answers as to what that something is. Consensus is, it's ET. It'd certainly be nice to know.



posted on Feb, 5 2012 @ 08:27 AM
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reply to post by The Shrike
 


It seems obvious to me that you have only a sampling-style of interest in the UFO topic and are trying to cause a fuss--as continually happens on ATS--by simply saying that you don't want to believe any of it and simply want to sit back and watch the fun and fireworks you have attempted.

As is the usual style with such threads demanding proof of UFOs/ETs you give us a few examples of snap assessments on the topic and want somebody to show you otherwise. -Not so clever anymore, tiresome actually.

The UFO/ET interactions with Earth will probably result in a complete rewrite of basic human existence and social and cultural development. Or you can start with 1947 if your intellect revolts on that startling (to some) assertion.

Regardless, the UFO phenomena is not some simple matter that can be questioned/answered in a thread on ATS. It is a very complex situation every bit as involved as any aspect of human history. Actually, it IS an aspect of human history, hence, part of the resistance to taking the subject seriously by some folks today if not rejecting it out of hand in the creation of an anti-UFO thread. Some people are threatened by the though.

The powers behind the UFO may well be the Alpha and the Omega of human history. And you want somebody to present you with a schedule?






edit on 5-2-2012 by Aliensun because: spelling correction



posted on Feb, 5 2012 @ 08:34 AM
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reply to post by The Shrike
 


Anyone who says that religion was created by strong people to control the weak people doesn't have much knowledge about religion or its origins.



posted on Feb, 5 2012 @ 08:59 AM
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reply to post by The Shrike
 




This is thread number 502. But, hey, be glad I didn't embed a boring YouTube video, this boring thread is all you need.

Good point.


The other threads are not as intelligent as this one.

I can't find a "We're not worthy" emoticon at the moment.



Aliens and gods can be disproven simply by the lack of evidence.

I think we have plenty of evidence. Any court accepts witness testimony as evidence. Verbal or written. It only comes down to whether any of it is conclusive. And for whom. So it still comes down to faith at this point.


UFOs, on the other hand, are real evidenced by the millions of photos, films, and videotapes.

Agreed.


I'm not operating on faith since I don't have a belief system.

Of course you do. We all do. We have all built a paradigm for ourselves that suits us. And inevitably, a good portion of that paradigm is based on trust in some one or some thing. Whether that trust be in "god", the established scientific paradigm, or our own Flying Spaghetti Monster. There is something in your paradigm you trust as true. Even if it's the word of a peer-reviewed paper. That's called faith.


What I do have is personal evidence of UFOs and I captured one on videotape.

I have only seen two in my life. Neither close up. Whatever else they were, they were extraordinary to watch.


Those who profess a belief in aliens are not operating from experience they are just repeating what others have said.

We do have many who claim firsthand experience. Including some members of ATS. Their experience is real to them. The rest of us must decide whether their testimony is believeable. From there, it's a matter of faith for or against.

BTW. I never said the topic was boring. I just said it comes up a lot.



posted on Feb, 5 2012 @ 10:21 AM
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Originally posted by The Shrike
As far as I know, the concept of aliens from outside earth never started with real personal experiences. The concept came from authors who speculated and then from the hoaxers such as Adamski. And similar to the Roswell incident, the concept became entrenched in the cosmic human mind and like mental conditioning believers were convinced the concept was based on reality. Never mind that there was no evidence to support the concept, it was as good and real as life itself.


The situation we have is that in America a crashed something fell in 1947, and the people of the day who were involved later told their loved ones and some publicly that it was aliens. The entity of the government which was proven to lie said that it was not aliens. After the world seeing UFOs all over and military contact with them Betty and Barney Hill had a personal experience in 1961. Betty saw a glowing UFO cross the path of the moon, it came down to earth and chased her and her husband miles down the way and what happened out from that event, revealed a typical alien abduction. About 10 years later a woman witnessed a cow being abducted by a strange glowing light, she and her daughter were abducted. In that decade many strange things happened, ranchers in the neighborhood of Kentucky saw a car being abducted by a large glowing UFO, 3 women turned out to be in the car and they came back with scars on there necks with a detailed abduction event. Researchers started to catch on, the media started dispersing information to the public. One scientist was the closest to the aliens and he figured the whole thing out (even went to the pentagon and president) but the aliens started to abduct him because he got to close to them, they implanted his wife. By this time the researchers had done enough to reveal that humans and cattle were part of an alien breeding program, and that aliens used the souls of humans to feed off emotional energy. Military inside sources came out to tell the public. Then, in the late 90s activity decreased on a major scale. For instance, in the decade of 1970 there were 8,000 cattle abducted by UFOs in the southwest US, when the activity decreased in the late 90s, 2,000 cattle had been abducted by UFOs between the year 2000 and 2005 in South America. Not only cattle abductions but the same kind of activity that happened at skinwalker ranch, so whoever was abducting cattle in UFOs went down there (there was a famous daylight abduction at skinwalker). Let us not forget that aliens came down to an amazon town in Brazil during the late 70s and the government made contact with them.



posted on Feb, 5 2012 @ 11:25 AM
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reply to post by The Shrike
 


Look up!! That should be all you need to convince yourself that the UFO's and Aliens are real.



posted on Feb, 5 2012 @ 11:37 AM
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Originally posted by joemac1j
reply to post by The Shrike
 


Look up!! That should be all you need to convince yourself that the UFO's and Aliens are real.


I've been watching the skies since a child.
I've seen Halley's Comet, many other comets, meteor showers, spectacular bolides, solar and lunar eclipses, satellites including Sky Lab, Mir, ISS, and I know the planets.
I'm also pretty familiar with aircraft as a skydiver.

Suffice to say, I'm fairly keen on what's up in the sky and how to identify what's what.

NEVER have I EVER seen a UFO.

I've been looking up for a very long time.

Welcome to ATS BTW. Nice way to spend your first post. Sad.



edit on 5-2-2012 by nineix because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2012 @ 01:15 PM
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I would whole heartly agree it would just be in our own minds but in my family alone we have had;

-UFO sightings, one by myself and one by my mother-inlaw (who is Catholic for the record)
-EBE sighting by my wife while she was asleep, she actually saw one of these tall greys stand in her bedroom.

Plus the numerous sightings by numerous people.



posted on Feb, 5 2012 @ 03:05 PM
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Some really good ideas in this thread, here are more ideas the user "kmarx" may try:

Many of the best UFO reports indicate that electronic devices exhibit anomalous behavior when they approach the UFOs at close range. This indicates that the UFOs are able to manipulate electronic devices somehow, using advanced technology. One possible method to control electronic devices from an external source is to use an electromagnetic pulse or "EMP" for short. So, to protect against "EMP" you can enclose the device in a Faraday cage, there are many websites that describe how to build a Faraday Cage, the following link gives a good description:

Faraday Cage

A microwave oven is a good example of a Faraday cage, since it must stop Electromagnetic waves, notably microwaves, from leaking out into the surrounding area. One note of caution, careful construction of the Faraday cages is critical, any gaps or holes will allow an EMP to enter.

For the more technically inclined here are some research papers on EMP shielding:

Papers on EMP protection

Now, just in case ET's use technology/physics other than EMP, you could place cameras and sensors at different distances from your residence. Start with a couple of feet, then a couple of yards, then a block, then a mile, etc. Maybe even have someone else place them in areas unknown to you, at times unknown to you, and to change their placement at random intervals. This way ET's can't hack your brain, find out where they are and turn them off one by one. Also, be careful, ET's aren't the only beings you have to worry about.

I have many more ideas:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

As for belief, look at it this way, even our best science and theories has skeptics. Consider quantum mechanics and General Relativity, both are rigorously tested, internally consistent theories that have proven themselves to describe reality with good accuracy, yet even these theories have skeptics.

In fact there are theories in physics were the theory states that the objects cannot be seen experimentally. Quarks are the building blocks of protons and neutrons and other particles, yet particle physicists have never seen a free quark. In fact their theories state that such particles cannot be seen individually, yet quarks have a firm foundation in particle physics and very few question their existence.

In fact it is part of science to be rationally skeptical, but it is not good science to be pedantically skeptical.

Good Luck


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posted on Feb, 5 2012 @ 03:34 PM
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reply to post by The Shrike
 


news.nationalgeographic.com...

I highly doubt it strains credulity to infer alien life exists. But, admittedly, the article I've linked does not prove the existence of aliens according to your standards. Therefore, it must be some sort mental miscalculation, because the only things in the cosmos which are real are those things which we know.

I wonder what we still don't know?
edit on 5-2-2012 by Kovenov because: typo

edit on 5-2-2012 by Kovenov because: fixed the typo of the typo



posted on Feb, 5 2012 @ 03:42 PM
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There is a formula for the likelihood of alien life elsewhere in the universe - and each time they found Earth life in the most unlikely place e.g. on Ocean floor in superheated vents, then that probability gets higher. So it is a fair question to ask.

You only need one alien contact to be true for the existence of aliens to be true.

Interestingly, alien abduction descriptions are identical to descriptions of Out of body experiences.



posted on Feb, 5 2012 @ 07:51 PM
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Originally posted by kmarx
what do you consider "evidence", OP?
an artifact?
a body?
some unknown fluid?
a crash site?
how about scars?
have plenty of those on my body.
could take some pictures for you, OP.
it would be easy to say they are from something else.
i have created several threads.
posted pictures i've drawn.
shown my scars.
is that "evidence", OP?
the few people i've been honest with about my experiences
have also said it was "just in my head".
i'd take a camera with me on my next "visit"
but "they" tend to frown on that sort of thing.


Evidence for the reality of ETs would have to be verifiable to the public in general. None of what you are volunteering is really acceptable.

Ideal evidence presentation would go something like this. The ETs would appear say at a major event from a sports event to a concert outdoors with hundreds of thousands attending. Let's say for argument's sake that there are ETs in UFOs, which is really a conjecture, and either one or more UFOs descent onto said event. Once the dust has settled, however they choose to communicate in the normal language of the country they select, the attendees would see in the plethora of screens images of either where the ETs originate from or they would pick a nearby planet or the moon and show us images that none of our satellites have shown. Let's pick Mars 'cause we have roving vehicles. We are shown an area the roving vehicles haven't visited but the area is near the vehicle so that it could be sent to that area to verify what is being shown on the stadium's screens.

Or they could, perhaps, show us the areas of the moon we have visited and show us what the area looks like now with the equipment we left behind. Or shows us our shuttles in space or the ISS. Or show us the spacecraft that we sent into space decades ago.

In other words something that would be familiar to us but we would have no way to see them in the present. No magic tricks would be necessary such as expecting them to show us the past or the future. Or make any predictions. Just ordinary information that we wouldn't have any way of gathering.



posted on Feb, 5 2012 @ 08:08 PM
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Originally posted by SonoftheSun
reply to post by The Shrike
 


Somehow I don't look forward to your reply on what I'm about to say...
Putting on my "I'm mentally disabled or challenged, delusional" shield...


I do not know where extraterrestrial beings are from, or when they're from or what they are for that matter...

So I will only address the following: Are we or have we been visited?

Clearly, there is a long list of evidence. But no actual proof.

So here's how I see it:

Everyone agrees that there must be life other than ours in the universe. Anyone denying this is not simply close minded but a fool. But could such life visit us?

Let's use logic. Expeditions.

We found out at one point that there could be other land out there, beyond the sea. We found out that we finally had the means to travel months on such a quest. And we set sail. We had the means and we did.

We found out at one point that we could leave the earth, explore the coldness of space and sent expeditions to the moon. Simply because we had the means and we did.

The future is exciting. We'll eventually set sail for Mars...then Jupiter...and eventually out of our solar system. Because we will find the means and do it.

Now, a civilization hundreds of thousands of years more advanced than us. What would they visit?

Because they have the means and do it.

Being mentally challenged is to find out how they do it.


Well, since you are prepared for the answer you don't want, I'll provide it and your shield won't help you.

You can't say that you don't know where ETs come from, etc., because to do so means you've accepted their reality. Something has to exist to wonder about its origins.

Are we or have we been visited? UFOs are "visiting" us but there is no evidence linking UFOs to ETs. UFOs are real but ETs are a jump in thinking that UFOs are also ET. No evidence for that. They're here but we do not have any idea where they originate from. It's easier to accept that they are interdimensional objects having no connection to anything beyond our moon. It's been claimed that UFOs can be seen in images from Mars but the images are iffy.

A long list of evidence but no actual proof? Evidence and proof are synonimous! Presently, there is no evidence/proof that ETs are among us.



posted on Feb, 5 2012 @ 08:14 PM
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Originally posted by Viking9019
reply to post by The Shrike
 


Anyone who says that religion was created by strong people to control the weak people doesn't have much knowledge about religion or its origins.


Anyone who denies it is one of the weak-minded and is being controlled by fantasy. There is nothing mystical about religions nor their creation. Religions come and go. Look what happened to a lot of religions such as Egyptian, Greek, Roman, Mayan, Aztec, etc. They be gone. And the gods that "ruled".



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