Are aliens/ETs real or simply in your mind?

Originally posted by The Shrike

Originally posted by dayve
No proof they are real yet people are supposedly getting abducted and givin information.... how about proof, i could say bigfoot stole my bbq right off the grill but nobodys gonna believe me.... or will they....

The problem with your reply, which is welcomed of course, is that you say "supposedly" which means you believe the popular accounts. However, can you quote the "givin information"? Who was given what and how does anyone know that what was given came from aliens/ET? And how come this information has not been made public which, if real, would change present thinking?

About your stolen bbq, find that sucker and bring him to justice for stealing is a crime!

I could have worded that better, what i meant was that people are claiming that they are abducted, and are givin information, with no proof. and i dont believe any of it. With all the technology we have these days their would be proof, at least a picture or a video of something other than camera blur or a ball of light darking around the sky... And when i find bigfoot, he is going to be turned into beef jerky.

Originally posted by The Shrike
Aliens? ETs? What are they? Why does the majority of this forum's members I'm not including the majority of humans but just this forum's members) think that such mental creations are real? What evidence has been presented and by whome that has convinced you that they exist?

As far as I know, the concept of aliens from outside earth never started with real personal experiences. The concept came from authors who speculated and then from the hoaxers such as Adamski. And similar to the Roswell incident, the concept became entrenched in the cosmic human mind and like mental conditioning believers were convinced the concept was based on reality. Never mind that there was no evidence to support the concept, it was as good and real as life itself.

Of course, it goes without saying that aliens are aligned with UFOs, that they must be inside the mysterious craft and have travelled a vast distance to come here and be curious about the inhabitants that all they can accomplish is aliennapping humans, performing all kinds of experiments on us mainly through the rear exit, or they like beef and are answering the request from back home "where's the beef?"

Then came the convincing aspect of the belief in aliens, abductions. Going through walls. Happening out in deserted roads. Heck, right out of skyscraper windows! The aliens/ETs conformed to our imagery of what they should look like after they were portrayed in movies and/or television, later on book covers. And, of course, along came the hoaxed alien interviews seen in tons of YouTube videos.

If aliens/ETs were "visiting" us someone had to know about them and be in cahoots to allow them to continue to harass us. How about the U.S. government, since they allow us to be abused by whoever is called a politician. And it is all documented but, unfortunately, you are not privy to see those documents. But, hey, don't worry disclosure is just around the corner or by next shavuitz!

So, to cut to the chase, can you contribute anything to support the reality of aliens/ETs? Don't quote others or state your beliefs, simply say that you can prove that aliens/ETs are real and produce the evidence.

If you can't produce evidence and all you have are beliefs, then there is your reality, in your mind.

edit on 4-2-2012 by The Shrike because: Add comments.

The preponderence for us to mutually exclude one for the other is a point of confusion amongst others.
'Real', or, 'all in your head'...begs some interesting questions relating to what is real, and what is in our heads.
The 'concept' of Love, my perception of the color red, a fear of heights...would be difficult for any 'white-coat' to 'prove', and/or produce any physical evidence of.

Anecdotally, as with Love, there appears to be a phenomena (rife throughout history, with artifacts, stories, legends, etc) which would point to the 'concept' being a truth (to some degree).

That degree, in absence of personal experience, is speculative and doubt ridden...for a good reason...

Then, there is the issue of memory, memory loss, memory replacement (implanted memories)...for those who are quite certain they have never been an 'experiencer'.

The level at which most 'alien' phenomena occur is on a level regulated and controlled (for want of a better word) by the same conditions necessary for 'dreams'...they dovetail, they are occuring in the same 'operating mode' (or, non-operating mode...whichever you prefer)...hence the dreamlike memories of floating, going through walls et al...

This is not saying that dreams ARE 'alien' experiences, just that, an environment can host many activities, and those activities will for this reason take on the same flavour.

Physical proof?

Your experience determines your belief or non-belief (on the whole)...physical evidence is unnecessary in these circumstances...you know, what happened...albeit in an environment which can host many activities...

Akushla

Originally posted by bknapple32
I appreciate the thought filled responses. I really do. The honesty on both sides is refreshing.. But it just irks me that they are in response to an obvious troll hunting for a flame war with this thread.

So stop torturing yourself and move on to threads of your like. It seems that my "trolling" has caught you, but I gotta throw you back, you're not the right mental size.

I am convinced that UFOs are not imaginary because of the cases involving physical evidence, radar returns, EM (electro magnetic) effects and multiple witnesses.

Flying saucers are real all right, the only question is who's driving them.

reply to post by The Shrike


First, define what you mean by "Alien" or "ET".

If we traveled to another star that has a planet, and we found a flower there, that flower would be considered "Alien" or "Extraterrestrial", simply because it did not originate on our planet.

While we've not found this flower yet, I'm firmly convienced that it exists. Why? Sheer numbers.

There are an estimated 200 billion (that's 2,000,000,000) or more stars in our galaxy alone. There are an estimated 200 billion to 400 billion galaxies in our universe.

That's a LOT of stars. More than enough to have some that are stable, and long living. More than enough to have planets around them, and planets that are able to sustain life.

To sit there and actually think that life has only developed on just our little planet in all the universe, is so arrogant, that it's almost beyond words.

Granted, if you look at the big picture and accept most popular theories from main stream science of how we came to be, it does read like we are the luckiest people of all time:

Our planet had to collide just right with another planet that wasn't too big, and just the right angle to so that our moon was created. It had to happen in such away so that the moon formed close to our planet but not too close so that it could start to slow down the huge amount of spin we had.
But by being close, it help create huge tidal waves that helped mix up the components that would later become known as "life" on our planet.
But it also had to form just right so that it could slowly spiral away from us, as it does at almost 3 inches per year, so that down the road, it got far enough away so that those huge tidal waves would not be so huge anymore, but it needed to still be around to help anchor our planet's axis, so it doesn't drift wildly around like the other planets (causing abrupt and huge climate changes).
We have had one global disaster after another, but all were needed in order to progress:
If you could jump into a time machine and go back 650 million years ago, when you step out, you'd suffocate to death, as there was hardly any oxygen in the air. Our planet went into a deep freeze that covered the whole planet, killing off most of the simple organisms then, and produced ones that were able to adapt, and one of the by products made by them was: oxygen.
250 million years ago, the Russian Siberian Traps errupted for a million years, dumping so much CO2 into the air that temps rose up by 20 degrees. This killed off over 90 percent of life again, but those that survived later became the dinosaurs that are so famous.
65 million years ago a six mile wide meteor slammed into the Earth helping along another ELE, and so the age of dinosaurs came to an end, and mammals got their chance to start shining.
Evolution theory holds that we came from simple primates. that the reason we evolved the way we did was due to many thing, including climate change: the Great Rift Valley in Africa is attributed to of been the reason we left the trees in that area and began to walk upright when the plates started to part and caused the area to change.

Yes, it does read like one big lucky break after another. But here is the thing:

All those things in 4.5 billion years on just our planet. The universe is 13 billion years old with 200 billion stars in our galaxy and over 200 billion galaxis in it.

Plenty of room for anything and everything to happen, not just once, but many, many times.

Are aliens and ET's only in our minds???

I'll leave you with this quote:

Not only is the universe stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we can imagine. -

Sir Arthur Eddington,
English astronomer (1882 - 1944)

Originally posted by xpoq47
Aside from the BS of hoaxers and other charlatans, what we have is the word of witnesses (multiple witnesses observing by multiple modes in many cases) who believe they are doing their civic duty by reporting what they saw versus the word of government officials who believe they are doing their civic duty by denying the phenomenon, trying to discredit witnesses, and spreading disinformation in order to keep a lid on the situation.

Here's an example of an interesting case:
www.youtube.com...
www.prufon-news.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The word of witnesses is immaterial. In a court of law it is the evidence that is convincing, not hearsay. I won't reply to your paranoia.

I watched the first video which was of a South American military pilot recounting an event he was involved in. Since I speak spanish I didn't need the english translation. The narration only points out that this man followed orders like a zombie, got in his plane and went up to shoot an unidentified object. Such is the nature of humans, kill first ask questions later. The video was not about aliens/ETs which is the topic of this thread.

Van Gogh painted UFO's in his paintings, three of them in 1889. He shot himself in 1890.

It seems "proof" is never proof in nay-sayers eyes.
I believe many people discount the ability to see, or the ability to know something extraordinary, because society tells you, "you do not see or know this".

I don't think everyone is meant to see or know what others have seen or do know. I also think, if you were to see an UFO, you would quickly dismiss it as such, and tell yourself it was a mere anomally in light matrixing.

Begining a thread like this makes me think you would like to believe, but without your "proof", you cannot. And something also tells me that your proof will never be proof enough.

Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by The Shrike

 

You have never seen one right? So what is your proof either way?
Like describing color to a blind man.
Last I read there are 20 million species of life on this planet. How would you say they all got here? From where?
Your argument is like a vegetable in a garden denying that gardeners exist.
Stuck in the middle ages.
The world is flat.
The earth is the center of all things.
Here there be Dragons.

Hubble Deep Field:
[snip]
You don't see any life here either do you?
Idiocentric

I know by experience that a certain kind of reply will be offered by the mentally challenged. You didn't contribute to the thread topic. The logic is that I don't have to prove that aliens are real since I've never made such a claim. I'm simply challenging those that say that aliens/ETs are real. I know that no one can provide such evidence. But since there are a lot believers they have to be told by me or anyone that doesn't think the way they do that their claims are just hot air.

reply to post by deloprator20000


The thread is NOT about UFOs or flying saucers!

reply to post by The Shrike


As one can imagine a car needs a body to drive it; so must UFO's need a body to guide it.
You may only be inquiring of the ET's, but it seems to me one answer would somehow answer another-as in I would suggest there are some forms of life within the moving UFO, and I derive these beings would be called aliens.

Originally posted by The Shrike

Originally posted by bknapple32
I appreciate the thought filled responses. I really do. The honesty on both sides is refreshing.. But it just irks me that they are in response to an obvious troll hunting for a flame war with this thread.

So stop torturing yourself and move on to threads of your like. It seems that my "trolling" has caught you, but I gotta throw you back, you're not the right mental size.

Typical, start the insult game... Well done.

Originally posted by bknapple32

Originally posted by The Shrike

Originally posted by bknapple32
I appreciate the thought filled responses. I really do. The honesty on both sides is refreshing.. But it just irks me that they are in response to an obvious troll hunting for a flame war with this thread.

So stop torturing yourself and move on to threads of your like. It seems that my "trolling" has caught you, but I gotta throw you back, you're not the right mental size.

Typical, start the insult game... Well done.

If you consider yourself a contributing member of this forum then contribute and stop playing your little hurt girl replies. Make an intelligent, positive comment about the thread's topic and don't get your panties in a bunch while doing so.

reply to post by The Shrike


No thanks, I'll move on. It was obvious this thread was an attempt at trolling... And when someone called you out for it, instead of defending that you truly felt these things from an honest standpoint, you resorted to name calling. I don't deal with adults who act like children on the internet. Enjoy your thread... I'm sure other members are seeing it for what it is by now.

reply to post by The Shrike


I guess it might be that I dont trust the goverment, military or teachers,or msnbc.

reply to post by The Shrike

I'm simply challenging those that say that aliens/ETs are real. I know that no one can provide such evidence.

So why bother ask? Just to Gloat? "You Know" nobody can provide evidence. Evidence of what exactly? Unidentified things? If it's "unidentified" then there is nothing to prove is there?

Iv'e read your replies. Most turn to personal attacks. Calling people "paranoid", "delusional" and "mentally challenged" doesn't help your point of view, which is... (?) Oh yah, I don't entertain any thoughts of the unknown.

Enjoy your dimly lit space dude. Know it alls don't know anything. Challenging people to provide you with proof that doesn't exist is a useless exercise of the spiteful mind.

The Shrike!! I thought you were dead...or had taken over Jim Oberg's account (He's gotten a lil' loopy lately and I know you two are buds.)

Having said that, for those of you who don't know, besides being a pain in the butt often, The Shrike actually has a thing or two to say worth listening to every once in awhile.

He has an interesting background, a good mind, and the personality of a pissed-off Hippo. I used to wanna hunt him down and kick his old troll butt, but he grew on me somewhere along the way and he's probably pretty good with a cane anyway.

But I agree, Shrike, if we take all of "ufology" as a whole...Occam would've put his money on the IDH.

I don't really know why that's any less crazy than believing in a conscious intelligent designer, however...but your fairly impressive IQ does have its limits as well. Should we throw you back too?

Now, you shot some daytime vid of an anomalous event? Please share.

p.s. - Glad you're still alive!!

reply to post by The GUT


Nothing worthwhile thus far sadly....

Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by The Shrike

 

I'm simply challenging those that say that aliens/ETs are real. I know that no one can provide such evidence.

So why bother ask? Just to Gloat? "You Know" nobody can provide evidence. Evidence of what exactly? Unidentified things? If it's "unidentified" then there is nothing to prove is there?

Iv'e read your replies. Most turn to personal attacks. Calling people "paranoid", "delusional" and "mentally challenged" doesn't help your point of view, which is... (?) Oh yah, I don't entertain any thoughts of the unknown.

Enjoy your dimly lit space dude. Know it alls don't know anything. Challenging people to provide you with proof that doesn't exist is a useless exercise of the spiteful mind.

So you saw the thread title, you read my comments and the best you can do is to criticize me because a certai type of person doesn't like my style? Why don't you, instead, contribute your opinion about the thread's topic and if you have evidence, present it or just move on this obviously is not your cup of tea and I don't care whether it is or not. "You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time". Sound familiar?

I think 'proof' might be satisfied if people like Mr. MUFON Dan Aykroyd, and other personalities with a bankroll pooled resources, and used abductees for BAIT.

If there's aliens and abductions going on, then, what's the point in chasing UFOs, and filming the sky?

Monitor select abductees on a 24/7, and next so-called abduction event that happens, you get data.
That data will either indicate the abductee in question is delusional and it's all in their head, or, could lead to evidence of an actual real physical event.

If physical, then, any advanced technology, no matter how advanced, will have limitations, and from there, it's just a game of finding those limitations to mouse-trap some sneak booty probing buggers.
That is, of course, if such is real.

MUFON, right now, is just a paper collection agency. They've got 50 years of paper and evidence, which in essence amounts to nothing. 50 more years, and they'll have another 50 years of paper collected.
MUFON needs to go on offensive.

Originally posted by nineix

I think 'proof' might be satisfied if people like Mr. MUFON Dan Aykroyd, and other personalities with a bankroll pooled resources, and used abductees for BAIT.

If there's aliens and abductions going on, then, what's the point in chasing UFOs, and filming the sky?

Monitor select abductees on a 24/7, and next so-called abduction event that happens, you get data.
That data will either indicate the abductee in question is delusional and it's all in their head, or, could lead to evidence of an actual real physical event.

If physical, then, any advanced technology, no matter how advanced, will have limitations, and from there, it's just a game of finding those limitations to mouse-trap some sneak booty probing buggers.
That is, of course, if such is real.

MUFON, right now, is just a paper collection agency. They've got 50 years of paper and evidence, which in essence amounts to nothing. 50 more years, and they'll have another 50 years of paper collected.
MUFON needs to go on offensive.

For all of the hoopla that MUFON generates in the UFO industry, it is worthless. There have been many similar organizations that never amounted to anything other than collecting data AFTER the fact so in reality the data collected was fanciful hearsay. I used to be such a collector of data and saw the writing on the wall and abandoned further connection to uselessness.

I attended a MUFO meeting back in the day and I never heard a bigger bunch of morons. I didn't join.

UFOs don't lend themselves to research, only allowing themselves to be photographed, filmed and/or videotaped at a distance!.