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Carl Sagan, the Moon & UFOs

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posted on Feb, 5 2012 @ 02:12 PM
Ok Sagan is entitled to his opinions like anyone is but to say that the ET possibility or reality for SOME UFOs is just mere romantic fantasy is not a very scientific way of approaching a enigma of unexplained objects entering and leaving various countries restricted air space AT WILL ;We are dealing with a percentage of sightings that is big enough that contain high levels of strangeness through the years big enough to warrant real concerns and real scientific investigation's;Science in default/20 years of inadequate scientific investigation into UFOs sums up the "arrogance" and "know all attitude" of those that think that not one UFO sighting based on its level of high "strangeness" warrants or deserves serious ET consideration as a source of origin;

The ET origin of SOME UFOs is entirely feasible and possible given that we at present do not know all there is to know about other advanced systems of technology including our current understanding of present physics;

edit on 15/07/2010 by K-PAX-PROT because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 5 2012 @ 03:22 PM

Originally posted by The GUT
She said that he said that He said...backstage at a Johnny Carson taping.

I wanna believe it, but...

Then there's Sagan's The Demon Haunted World

How DARE you try to put his actual words into the thread...

What ever were you thinking?

posted on Feb, 5 2012 @ 03:49 PM

Originally posted by Aliensun
reply to post by Cosmic911

I suggest you read his approved biography,"Carl Sagan," by William Poundstone where it is revealed that in his early days before joining the so-called "Condon Report," he was virtually a fanatical UFO supporter. Then later he got into smoking weed and mellowed out, understanding what he could do to bring Americans and the world up to speed when looking out beyond their daily realities here on the surface. I frankly believe he has a bit of help in assuming that role.

It is highly suspected that he certainly believed that there was or had been life on Mars. Read between the lines in his "Cosmic Connection," knowing that he was a closet believer in UFOs.

More UFO believers should do that. Not the weed part, but mellow out and stop with the fanatical craziness. the best way to get to the bottom of this subject is to get the average human idiot to take it seriously, which can't be done with all the tinfoil hat crap that we have let speak for us to the public.

Carl Sagan was smart.

posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 04:22 AM

Originally posted by Aliensun
Hynek was followed at the lecturn by Sagan that gave a strictly conventional scientific argument that became his trademark: "Yes, they are out there, but, no, they can't get here."

Aliensun, certainly agree about the Condon report being a whitewash and Stanton Friedman also makes a few interesting comments in this video about Carl Sagan not being objective or knowledgeable when it came to the UFO subject - there's also a relevant article below written Sagan in 1962 where this time he speculates about the 'strong probability' of the Earth being visited by ETs every few thousand years.

Prof Says Beings From Outer Space Have Visited Earth

Associated Press, November 26, 1962

LOS ANGELES. (AP) - Some of the best scientific minds in the country were stumped when a slender, dark-haired young man chalked on the blackboard this equation:

N equals R FP NE FL FI FC L.

The speaker was Dr. Carl Sagan, a 28 year-old assistant professor of astronomy at Harvard University.
His audience consisted of several hundred members of the American Rocket Society, gathered for his luncheon address.
The equation was his way of expressing the mathematical probability that intelligent beings from outer space have visited earth.
Sagan soberly explained that in his equation N Stands for the number of advanced technical civilizations in the universe possessing the capability of interstellar communication.

R is the mean rate of star formation averaged over the lifetime of the galaxy.
FP is the fraction of stars with planetary systems.
NE is the mean number of planets in each system with environments favorable for the origin of life.
FL is the fraction of such planets on which life does develop.
FI is the fraction of such inhabited planets on which intelligent life with manipulative abilities rises during the lifetime of the local sun.
FC is the fraction of planets populated by intelligent beings on which advanced technical civilizations rises.
And L is the lifetime of this technical civilization.

Sagan said information in his formula is based on current estimates by astronomers. In making calculations, he assigned each symbol an arbitrary numerical value.
As expressed in numbers, Sagan said, the formula means that at least 1 million of the 100 billion stars in our Milky Way galaxy have planets which have developed civilizations capable of travel between the stars.
"Let's say that each of these civilizations sends out one interstellar expedition per year," he said.

"That means that every star, such as our sun, would be visited at least once every million years. In some systems where these beings found life, they would make more frequent visits. There's a strong probability, then, that they have visited earth every few thousand years.
"It is not out of the question that artifacts of these visits still exist or even that some kind of base is maintained, possibly automatically, within the solar system, to provide continuity for successive expeditions.
"Because of weathering and the possibility of detection and interference by the inhabitants of earth it would be preferable not to erect such a base on the earth's surface. The moon seems one reasonable alternative."

"Forthcoming photographic reconnaissance of the moon from space vehicles - particularly of the back - might bear these possibilities in mind."
At a news conference Sagan predicted man himself would be capable of interstellar flight at close to the speed of light "within a century or two."
Asked if he believed in flying saucers, he said: "I do believe there are objects which have hot be identified."



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 04:22 AM

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Essentially he said that not all the UFOs we see are alien, which pretty much everyone including MUFON admits 95% of them aren't. The remaining 5% are unexplained/unknown.

If we put aside the 'aliens' for a moment, isn't the unexplained rate for UFO reports more like twenty to thirty per-cent.. and that's not even taking into account where the government has just 'made the explanations up' (link).

."The opposite conclusion could have been drawn from The Condon Report's content, namely, that a phenomenon with such a high ratio of unexplained cases (about 30 percent) should arouse sufficient scientific curiosity to continue its study."
"From a scientific and engineering standpoint, it is unacceptable to simply ignore substantial numbers of unexplained observations... the only promising approach is a continuing moderate-level effort with emphasis on improved data collection by objective means... involving available remote sensing capabilities and certain software changes."
Ronald D Story - American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics UFO Subcommittee -New York: Doubleday, 1980

"There are unidentified flying objects. That is, there are a hard core of cases - perhaps 20 to 30 percent in different studies - for which there is no explanation... We can only imagine what purpose lies behind the activities of these quiet, harmlessly cruising objects that time and again approach the earth. The most likely explanation, it seems to me, is that they are simply watching what we are up to." (Redbook, vol. 143)
Dr. Margaret Mead, world-renowned Anthropologist

posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 08:09 AM

Originally posted by karl 12

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Essentially he said that not all the UFOs we see are alien, which pretty much everyone including MUFON admits 95% of them aren't. The remaining 5% are unexplained/unknown.

If we put aside the 'aliens' for a moment, isn't the unexplained rate for UFO reports more like twenty to thirty per-cent.. and that's not even taking into account where the government has just 'made the explanations up' (link).
It depends on who you ask.

Bill Birnes who made the TV series UFO Hunters said 95% are not interesting and 5% are interesting. MUFON said 95% are suspected of being manmade objects and natural phenomena. Here MUFON Georgia says over 90% are suspected of being manmade objects and natural phenomena:

As most of the public is now aware, personnel of MUFON (Mutual UFO Network) suspect or eliminate about 90+% of all reported cases as being misidentified aircraft/man-made objects, weather and other natural phenomena, celestial bodies observed under unusual atmospheric conditions, satellites, space junk, meteors and hoaxes.
Probably the reason for the difference is their use of the word "suspect". In other words, they apparently suspect that a large portion of the unexplained sightings are probably explainable.

It's been my experience that the some of the unexplainable cases are only unexplainable due to insufficient information, and if better information was available it would be explainable. We see this all the time here on ATS where a UFO photo or video is posted, and sometimes we are able to identify what is in the photo or video. Without the photo or video, and only the witness description, it would remain unexplained due to the inability of the witness to provide sufficient information that would identify it.

If you want to dispute MUFON's estimate, I think you have a basis for doing so. However, personally, I wouldn't argue with them, as I think they're probably about right.

posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 01:20 PM
I was always under the impression that Sagan was a total idiot and that UFOlogy as well as science is a lot better off without him.

posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 02:09 PM

Originally posted by NuminousCosmos
I am one of those people that has a almost mythic view of Dr. Sagan. His words came to me in a time of my life where they were sorely needed.

A groupie ... that explains why you only see one side
But hey we all have our own Gods

That avatar of yours... its from a picture of Carl standing beside the Viking Lander in Death Valley where they shot some of those Mars images that they tinted that NASA Red later

I love the fake hill behind him. Were the NASA photoshoppers practicing or was there something else there they didn't want us to see?


posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 02:16 PM
reply to post by zorgon

Dr. Sagan is a huge influence in my life. So, yes I am a proud groupie and will defend his good name

As for the color of Mars, I actually lie in the "NASA might be wrong" camp. Without human eyes to actually see what the surface and sky look like there, returned images are subjective. We can't really know what the 'real' colors are IMHO without a genuine tri-color camera system.

*EDIT: I do not think for a second that NASA faked the Viking missions on earth. That is totally false.
edit on 2/6/2012 by NuminousCosmos because: (no reason given)

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