I used to be a believer...

i worked at an aiport a few years ago. being so close in distance to a jet at its takeoff was a tremendous experience.

but watching that plane sail upwards into a cloudless blue sky was another experience altogether - if you were to do this, and keep your eyes on the craft, you will see it seem to change shape, color, and luminosity. its all due to atmospheric and solar effects, and the limitations of your eyesight as well.

this is a quick explanation for one reason i am a skeptic. my diehard beliefs dwindled through the last decade or more just because EVERY year was promised to be the year of "disclosure". as optic technologies have advanced, photographs of UFOs has become insignificant because hoaxers are easily debunked, and/or reasonable explanations are more easily determined.

like seekeroftruth (apologies if i am not accurate on your username), i WANT to believe. i am open to the possibilities that abduction experiences are true, etc., but i see no real evidence. even all those 'bases' on the moon? am i blind? i look at those photographs and see nothing conclusive.

what i DO see in this thread is that this has become a religion unto itself. some of the volleying of comments could have been between the apostle Peter and the Roman governor. think about it - solid belief based on 'witness testimony' from experts. kinda like early christians may have described the apostles.

(i am not disparaging religion, christianity, nor belief in UFOs.)

If you guys don't believe, watch all videos from rokkat.com and read a few good books such as ALIEN AGENDA (with 300+ references). You will KNOW then (no need to believe ;-)

reply to post by thesearchfortruth

Originally posted by thesearchfortruth
Now I consider myself 'openminded' about the subject of UFO's.

I believe that UFO's could very easily be top secret military projects...

The fact is, believers and skeptics are both just guessing... There is such a shroud of mystery around this subject different conclusions can be drawn while looking at the same data, just approaching it from a different perspective.

I want to believe. I think many people do.

But I think UFO's could simply be top secret military aircraft.

Is there any evidence against this theory?

edit on 4-2-2012 by thesearchfortruth because: (no reason given)

I have to agree, it's easy to imagine many if not all legitimate UFO reports are misidentifications of new aircraft designs, that are at the cutting edge of government funded secret special access programs (SAPs). This common sense explanation for UFOs appears to be supported by how the public reacted to the Air Force's early U-2 test flights.

However as logical as this might sound, the idea of a top secret aircraft fails to account for military radar-visual UFO events like the 1956 RAF Lakenheath-Bentwaters incident. It's difficult to imagine a team of USAF and RAF radar operators observing an unidentified object on their scopes for over five hours, with ground-radar confirmations from two separate towers, accompanied by ground visual and airborne visuals, and still failing to identify the craft. So, unfortunately, the concept of a hypothetical manned secret aircraft as a general catch-all fails to explain away all strange reports.

Furthermore if lenticular flying machines do exist this begs the question -- how do they work? The 1950's VZ-9 Avrocar design was by all accounts a complete failure. This opens up questions about the casimir effect and possibly even hints at anti-gravity. Other practical considerations that have to be accounted for include air friction (stability and heating) and safety concerns of piloting a vehicle capable of traveling at above hypersonic speeds.

reply to post by jimboMakkka82


One reason is because they are probably surveillance aircraft of some sort. Another theory is that they are transportation aircraft which could carry much heavier loads than normal fixed wing aircraft due to being a mix of blimp/fixed wing. Finally they have often been sighted near NATO airbases , it could be that it is hard to avoid population centres when approaching certain airbases.

There have been reports of these aircraft departing at incredible speeds, but normally they seem to move at a sedate pace.

Originally posted by thesearchfortruth
I've looked at that video before... look at this one and tell me what you think... www.youtube.com...

From about 2:22 in this UFO Hunters, NASA files, part 1, clearly show footage of a fast moving UFO making a turn in space, and just after that, another footage show another UFO making a sharp angle turn (just before something that seems to be "laser beam" shooting after it), and thereby change direction, then speeds up and heading towards deep space.
During the first part of this UFO Hunters, NASA Files, Part 3, they explain that some of the sightings is caused by small 'debris' between the layers of the windows of the Space Shuttle. So at least this one shows a natural explanation of some of the sightings. But, from about 3:00 they explain unusual sightings shown by cameras attached on the outside of Space Shuttle, and from about 3:30 the camera show the fast moving object that make a turn in space (also shown in Part 1). NASA's official explanation is ice flake breaking off from Space Shuttle, but Dr. Jack Kasher DISMISS NASA's ice flake / ice particle explanation! From about 6:49 the another footage show the sharp angle turning object in space (just before the "laser beam shooting"), and thereby change direction, then speeds up and heading towards deep space.

And about the maneuvers were they more impressive then these?
(I'm not trying to debunk your sighting i'm just trying to get a grip on how impressive they actually were. Would you mind describing your sighting?)
www.youtube.com...
vid starts to get interesting around the 1:40 mark...

Putin visit the test of PAKFA T-50 and boasts that the T-5o is better than the F-22 Raptor , and even the SU-37 is better than the F-22

Soviet UFO secrets

5. U.S. astronauts did encounter extra-terrestrial craft and there was a significant sighting made on the moon, all of which have again been cynically covered-up.

Lunar surface 1969, Neil Armstrong: >>God, what is that out there?... What the h... is that???... But this is unbelievable!...Whats there?>Whats there? Mission Control calling Apollo 11...>These "Babies" are huge, Sir! Enormous! OH MY GOD! You wouldn't believe it! I'm telling you there are other spacecraft out there, Lined up on the far side of the crater edge! They're on the Moon watching us!>What REALLY happened out there with Apollo 11?>It was incredible, of course we had always known there was a possibility, the fact is, we were warned off! (by the Aliens). There was never any question then of a space station or a moon city.>How do you mean "warned off"?>I can't go into details, except to say that their ships were far superior to ours both in size and technology - Boy, were they big! and menacing! No, there is no question of a space station.>But NASA had other missions after Apollo 11?>Naturally - NASA was committed at that time, and couldn't risk panic on Earth. But it really was a quick scoop and back again.>Hey, this is ours!

reply to post by thesearchfortruth


If you do some serious research on the UFO phenomenon you'll very quickly realise that the 'UFOs are military research projects' theory holds no water. There are a myriad of reasons for this. Of course some UFO sightings are definitley mistaken observations of military craft, and indeed there are probably military projects that are so advanced that they display seeming otherworldly capabilities.
But taken on the whole, the multitude of credible sightings throughout the last 60 years(and it's a lot), worldwide, of craft that are so varied in size, shape and color, performing unbelievable maneuvers, moving at unattainable speeds, disappearing and materializing, hovering and moving extremely slowly in complete silence. To say 'yeah, all military projects' is just plain ignorant.
There are also the multitude of cases, again worldwide, where witnesses have seen the occupants of these craft.
Basically if you have an open but skeptical mind, if you look into the subject with some seriousness, if you use your head a bit and stop being polarized into either the 'believer' or 'non-believer' camps you'll see there is a lot more to this subject that some simple explanation like 'UFOs? nah they're all military projects' or 'UFOs? nah they're all Nazi tech from WWII' and so on.

Originally posted by Illustronic
First of all I wish the two unrelated notions of life exclusive to earth in the Universe and extraterrestrial spacecraft visits to earth would stop being used as a sort of crutch logic point blurted out in some sort of defense against the idea that some just don't believe the distances of space has been traversed physically by aliens to ever have arrived here. I don't see a causal relationship between the two.

Just because I never met a native of Tajikistan in my house doesn't mean I don't believe Tajikistan exists. In every token punch-points defending strong beliefs there are analogies used that simply don't stand up alone to logic, I wish more folks would realize that. I also don't have any platinum, but I know it exists, it just never jumped into my jewelry box, that I'm quite sure of.

Dogon and the Sirius mystery , and Cherokee indians explains that Pleiadian star people came to Atlantis in ancient times, intermingling with Earth inhabitants, and having children with the beginnings of higher consiousness.
The Pleiadians reportedly travel in a "Split Second" between the wast distances in space, for example from the Pleiades to this starsystem at a distance of about 420 light years, or much larger distances. Also Andromedans reportedly travel wast distances in space in a "Split Second" for example from one end of the galaxy to the other end of the galaxy, or from galaxy to another galaxy, and yes, still in a "Split Second".

Originally posted by Aliensun
Some day, the "history" of UFOs/ETs/Contact will be required teaching in schools.

In this conference Alex Collier explain that the quiet science of archeology has and will discover more and more of ancient history, including ancient Extraterrestrial civilizations, he says there is going to be aknowledgement of a temple complex that belong to ancient Lemuria that is apparently still intact lying approximately 150 miles southwest of Easter Island, Alex Collier says he is told it's huge, he also says he have been told that the Russians already know it's there, that they have photographed it and exployed it in many submarines.

Underwater structures near Okinawa have been filmed/photographed by divers, but it seems the ordinary scientific community can't figure out what these structures are, yet. The ordinary scientific community still speculate what these "underwater strucutures" are, but they look interesting and fascinating, especially the specific photo of the very special curved "triangular shaped" structure, and also unknown hieroglyphs have been found.

Then there is about 1600 cases of "Starchilden". Lots of parents world wide contact Mary Rodwell telling her that their children are in contact with Extraterrestrials from outer space, these "Starchildren" reportedly go at "ET high school", reportedly read other people's mind, reportedly have telepathic skills, reportedly are able to move objects through the air by using mind power, and reportedly have healing skills.