I used to be a believer..., page 6

reply to post by thesearchfortruth

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Originally posted by thesearchfortruth
Now I consider myself 'openminded' about the subject of UFO's.

I believe that UFO's could very easily be top secret military projects...

The fact is, believers and skeptics are both just guessing... There is such a shroud of mystery around this subject different conclusions can be drawn while looking at the same data, just approaching it from a different perspective.

I want to believe. I think many people do.

But I think UFO's could simply be top secret military aircraft.

Is there any evidence against this theory?

edit on 4-2-2012 by thesearchfortruth because: (no reason given)

I have to agree, it's easy to imagine many if not all legitimate UFO reports are misidentifications of new aircraft designs, that are at the cutting edge of government funded secret special access programs (SAPs). This common sense explanation for UFOs appears to be supported by how the public reacted to the Air Force's early U-2 test flights.

However as logical as this might sound, the idea of a top secret aircraft fails to account for military radar-visual UFO events like the 1956 RAF Lakenheath-Bentwaters incident. It's difficult to imagine a team of USAF and RAF radar operators observing an unidentified object on their scopes for over five hours, with ground-radar confirmations from two separate towers, accompanied by ground visual and airborne visuals, and still failing to identify the craft. So, unfortunately, the concept of a hypothetical manned secret aircraft as a general catch-all fails to explain away all strange reports.

Furthermore if lenticular flying machines do exist this begs the question -- how do they work? The 1950's VZ-9 Avrocar design was by all accounts a complete failure. This opens up questions about the casimir effect and possibly even hints at anti-gravity. Other practical considerations that have to be accounted for include air friction (stability and heating) and safety concerns of piloting a vehicle capable of traveling at above hypersonic speeds.

reply to post by jimboMakkka82

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One reason is because they are probably surveillance aircraft of some sort. Another theory is that they are transportation aircraft which could carry much heavier loads than normal fixed wing aircraft due to being a mix of blimp/fixed wing. Finally they have often been sighted near NATO airbases , it could be that it is hard to avoid population centres when approaching certain airbases.

There have been reports of these aircraft departing at incredible speeds, but normally they seem to move at a sedate pace.

Originally posted by thesearchfortruth
I've looked at that video before... look at this one and tell me what you think... www.youtube.com...

From about 2:22 in this UFO Hunters, NASA files, part 1, clearly show footage of a fast moving UFO making a turn in space, and just after that, another footage show another UFO making a sharp angle turn (just before something that seems to be "laser beam" shooting after it), and thereby change direction, then speeds up and heading towards deep space.
During the first part of this UFO Hunters, NASA Files, Part 3, they explain that some of the sightings is caused by small 'debris' between the layers of the windows of the Space Shuttle. So at least this one shows a natural explanation of some of the sightings. But, from about 3:00 they explain unusual sightings shown by cameras attached on the outside of Space Shuttle, and from about 3:30 the camera show the fast moving object that make a turn in space (also shown in Part 1). NASA's official explanation is ice flake breaking off from Space Shuttle, but Dr. Jack Kasher DISMISS NASA's ice flake / ice particle explanation! From about 6:49 the another footage show the sharp angle turning object in space (just before the "laser beam shooting"), and thereby change direction, then speeds up and heading towards deep space.

And about the maneuvers were they more impressive then these?
(I'm not trying to debunk your sighting i'm just trying to get a grip on how impressive they actually were. Would you mind describing your sighting?)
www.youtube.com...
vid starts to get interesting around the 1:40 mark...

Putin visit the test of PAKFA T-50 and boasts that the T-5o is better than the F-22 Raptor , and even the SU-37 is better than the F-22

Soviet UFO secrets

5. U.S. astronauts did encounter extra-terrestrial craft and there was a significant sighting made on the moon, all of which have again been cynically covered-up.

Lunar surface 1969, Neil Armstrong: >>God, what is that out there?... What the h... is that???... But this is unbelievable!...<<, Houston Mission Control Center: >>Whats there?<<

NASA: >>Whats there? Mission Control calling Apollo 11...<<
Apollo11: >>These "Babies" are huge, Sir! Enormous! OH MY GOD! You wouldn't believe it! I'm telling you there are other spacecraft out there, Lined up on the far side of the crater edge! They're on the Moon watching us!<<

A certain professor, who wished to remain anonymous, was engaged in a discussion with Neil Armstrong during a NASA symposium.

Professor: >>What REALLY happened out there with Apollo 11?<<
Armstrong: >>It was incredible, of course we had always known there was a possibility, the fact is, we were warned off! (by the Aliens). There was never any question then of a space station or a moon city.<<
Professor: >>How do you mean "warned off"?<<
Armstrong: >>I can't go into details, except to say that their ships were far superior to ours both in size and technology - Boy, were they big! and menacing! No, there is no question of a space station.<<
Professor: >>But NASA had other missions after Apollo 11?<<
Armstrong: >>Naturally - NASA was committed at that time, and couldn't risk panic on Earth. But it really was a quick scoop and back again.<<

Alien base on the far side of the Moon

LUNA: The Alien base on the far side of the Moon. It was seen and filmed by the Apollo astronauts. A base, a mining operation using very large machines, and the very large alien craft described in sighting reports as mother ships exist there. - Milton Cooper

UFO and reported Extraterrestrials on the Moon and Mars

We have accumulated massive research indicating our Moon was colonized and explored by races from other planets, most notably in the Orion constellation, and that aliens called ZETANS from Zeta Reticuli are active there today. The Zetans have been analyzed by government psychologists to be, in ways, similar to Nazi scientists... technologically very advanced and materialistic, intellectual geniuses, yet lacking the kind of compassionate emotions and spiritual desires common with most people in our Earth nations.

To N.A.S.A, the Pentagon, the President and his top aids... that finding is a bit too scary to put on our six o’clock television news. If you think people might PANIC, you must first realize that the military officers who have been running the C.I.A. and other intelligence agencies and a Secretary of Defense already HAVE panicked. If they can do that will all their military power, where do we stand? A chance?

There is also absolute scientific proof that the Zetans have forcibly abducted thousands of Americans, many who were used in bizarre Nazi-like genetic experiments. The locals on the Moon, from Rigel, Betelguese, the Barnard Star, and a planet orbiting Sirius, most known as “grays” but not all (some are blue, Nordic blondes, or orange or even pale white), are the ALLIANCE OF THE HOLY ...their capital planet reportedly TYRANTOR. They have been involved in a star wars empire intergalactic war for at least 50,000 years, during which they invaded on conquered planets in Rigel and enslaved many people, the star wars against the Lyrans and Vegans, and against the Sirians who would not join the ALLIANCE OF SIX.

Some of these star wars were fought on Earth in ancient times when colonies from different planets fought for our planet to try to take control. The Pleideans from planet Erra, humans from a spaceport on Venus, Sethians, Centaurians and beings from the reported 12th planet in our system were involved in these battles on Earth and were mostly driven off the planet (except for remaining secret underground cities and bases all of those civilizations still have on Earth). The Zetans now have a spaceport on the hidden dark side of the Moon, and many underground cities there too. They also have scientific, military, and mining stations on the surface of the Moon. So Americans and Russians can’t just fly up there and plant their flags and say, >>Hey, this is ours!<< (like they are used to doing after invading other countries/continents on Earth).

Government agents have been forced to do everything they can theorize or scam on, to make it look like the Moon is a dead world impossible to inhabit. What they do not tell you is that ZETANS do not need an atmosphere like ours to breath because ZETANS do not have lungs. They do not need to irrigate and grow crops because Zetans have no digestive systems. They do not need to worry about being too hot or cold because they have incredibly thick tough skin... like reptiles only more extreme and much tougher... and are cold-blooded... the sun, heat, and cold on the Moon do not damage their skin.

In fact, they would DIE IN OUR EARTH ATMOSPHERE without a space suit, like they did after emerging from those crashed flying saucers... because our Earth atmosphere is poisonous to Zetans. The atmosphere in one of their planets, orbiting a dying red star sun, is composed of elements like sulfur and carbon monoxide... described by some scientists like the runaway greenhouse effect of out of control pollution Zetans would like on Earth for themselves. They cannot live on the surface of Earth without creating genetic sub-human hybrids in laboratories... part them and part us. So they live in underground cities in the United States, Soviet Union, Moon, Mars and certain asteroids off Jupiter.

David Icke explain that the Moon is artificial and not supposed to be there , and Alex Collier - Moon and Mars lecture, Part 1 , and from about 1:00 into this Part 2 , "Andromedan contactee" Alex Collier told that the Andromedans told him that the Moon is an artificial "satellite", in fact the Moon is a spacecraft, the Andromedans told him, he said, much of the debris on the surface was put there and built purposely to make it look like it isn't, it is hollow, it is able to leave the orbit of it's own power, that the Moon originate in another star system (called Chaulta or something like that i guess), it was originally one of 4 Moons that orbited the 17th planet of that another star system, it was built almost similar to that "Death Star" from the Star Wars movie, it was built around this 17th planet, it was then put in the tail of a comet and dragged to this solar system, when it arrived to this solar system it removed itself from the comet, and it placed itself around the planet called 'Maldek' which is the asteroid belt by now (Maldek was reportedly destroyed a long time ago), the Moon became one of 2 Moons that orbited 'Maldek', 'Maldek' was the first inhabited planet in this solar system, it was very much like Earth, Mars and Earth were Terraformed at the time, and all plant and animal life was brought to Earth, some Earth-scientists theorize that life started with a single cell and the Andromedans laughed at that ridiculous theory. This solar system has been engineered, he said. I will stop here, and let you watch the rest of the lectures, Part 3 , Part 4 , Part 5 , Part 6 , Part 7 , Part 8 , Part 9 , Part 10 , Part 11 , Part 12

Alex Collier mentioned ancient planet called 'Maldek', he is not the only one who mention planet 'Maldek',
Destruction of planet Maldek - Dinoid/Reptoid stronghold

When the transformation was complete and the later sector was safe, the first sector imploded the fusion reactors, destroying 98% of the Dinoid/Reptoid civilizations, the survivors evacuated to the planet in our solar system, Maldek. Now with the Dinoid/Reptoid no longer present on Earth, the Earth Spiritual Hierarchies and the cataceans had to find a suitable guardian for the land. They searched the galaxy for 2 to 3 million years before finding what they were looking for . They found, on the fourth planet of the Vega system , a primitive aquatic species that was starting to emerge from the oceans. This species had creation myths, a language, and a hunting and gathering culture.

The Spiritual Hierarchies of the Vega system were then asked if they would permit this species to be vastly altered genetically to accelerate their evolution so that they may become a guardian species. The Vega Spiritual Hierarchies agreed. So, the traces of the first humans came from the Vega Star System. Their technology improved very quickly, and once they had developed star travel technology they started to migrate into nearby star systems for a period of 2.5 million years.

During this time the Galatic Federation was formed, Sirius B was colonized and Earth was selected for seeding. Later Mars and Venus were colonized and the Hybornea colony was founded on Earth. Dinoid/Reptoids in the meantime had built up there forces and were invading the various colonies throughout the solar system. Hyborean Earth, Mars and Venus were victim to these attacks and the Dinoids and Reptoids gained control over the solar system for a period of approximately 80,000 years.

In response to this the Galactic Federation planned a counterattack to reintroduce humans into this system. They arranged for a battle planet (4 times the diameter of the Earth) to come into the solar system and destroy the planet Maldek - which was the Dinoid/Reptoid stronghold. The remains of the planet Maldek are what we can now see as the asteroid belt. After the destruction of Maldek and the defeat of the Dinoid/Reptoids a human colony was again established on Earth. It is what we know today as Lemuria. Over the next 850,000 years the Lemurians spread across the face of the planet. They founded daughter colonies such as Atlantis, Yu which is now Central China and Tibet and the Libyan/Egytian colonies.

The Atlanteans began to acquire a feeling of uniqueness about their culture and wanted to eliminate Lemuria so that they could become the mother country. The Atlanteans began forming alliances with renegade Pleidans and Alpha Centaurians which had Hierarchical systems of government . They accomplished the destruction of Lemuria by taking the Earth's moon (Earth had 2 moons in those times) out of orbit by using force fields until it was as close as possible to the Lemurian empire, and then the moon was destroyed resulting in a catastrophic shower of meteors. This destroyed much of Lemuria, but this also resulted in many pressures being inflicted upon the tectonic plates : resulting in the gas chambers under Lemuria to implode and thus sink most of the Lemurian continent.

From about 5:50 in this conference (Part 10) by Randy Winters, Randy show a picture of what seems to be the other Moon, and Earth in the background. That picture is allegedly taken by Billy Meier. Billy Meier was reportedly invited aboard the Pleiadians' spaceship, reportedly travelled back in ancient times, and Meier told that his Plejaren friends told him that Earth had 2 Moons in ancient times.

Maldek

This ancient history is not pretty we derive from a humanoid race which destroyed its planetary home (known as Maldek), by injudicious tinkering with atomic power to access total conversion of the atom into available energy. This caused a chain reaction destroying all life, and reduced the planetary body to rubble of various sizes, now wandering the orbit of the asteroid belt .

It was all so unnecessary, as they had an adequate sourceof energy, in the way we are trying get from atomic power, but they had more success in terms of safety and efficiency.

Only a fraction of one thousandth of the total power in the atom is normally available by this method.So far, the Logos of the Earth has kindly accomodated us, in spite of having to restrict her own evolution in order dampen down the vibratory level in Her substance, the which sacrifice has reached its conclusion by Karmic Law, and therewith hangs a concatenation of events, from both " Above and Below".

The failure of the ancient civilisations of Lemuria and Atlantis to survive, and our failure to progress at a normal rate and achieve something approaching parity with other planets, exacerbated things greatly. Many thousands of years of degeneracy and barbarism elapsed in between the collapse of those ancient civilisations. Once a pattern has been developed it tends to repeat itself, an interesting maxim found in the recent research into the Principle of Chaos, history is often spoken of as, "repeating itself ".

There was a world crisis in 1962, threatening to destroy everything in another atomic holocaust, in a repetition of Lemuria and Atantis.(That this was co-incident with the planetary syzygy in 1962 should interest astrologers).This time, it was not allowed to happen.

In those days the two great world powers the U.S.and Russia were poised ready to unleash a swarm of nuclear missiles onto each other during the Cuban Crisis, and explains why the relations between the U.S. and Cuba remain strained to this day.

To accept the notion that we represent a failure to keep up with the neighbours, so to speak, is a bitter pill to swallow indeed, in the face of such remarkable advances made in science and space in only a few years. If we had been able to keep pace with others in times past things would have been very different, but with the proper amount of co-operation instead of competition between nations, we can still go a long way on this road , and quickly .
•Size : 1.47 Earth
•Age : 4.5 billion years
•Civilization(s) : Drakar, Zetan
•Population : 9,1035,723 (at time when it was destroyed)

History - The planet Maldek was the real fifth planet from Sol. The planet itself was bigger than Earth, but scarcely more than a mere rock. Somewhere between 68-66 million years ago the Zetans began to colonize the planet and when adequate construction was completed the Drakars moved in.

The Drakarian Empire then launch three asteroids to the hominid civilizations one for Venus, one for Earth, and one for Mars. The first one struck Mars’ atmosphere about 65.5 million years ago, wiping off over two-thirds of the Oxygen rich atmosphere. The one that hit Earth didn’t wipe off the atmosphere, but ended many species of life and set some off some massive ice ages on Earth.

The third one hit Venus also, but never reached the surface much less beneath it because the Drakars underestimated how violent the atmosphere really was. The Galactic Alliance responded quickly and with an iron fist, they sent Erran and Scenarian warships, which destroyed Maldek killing all inhabitants on the planet.

reply to post by thesearchfortruth

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If you do some serious research on the UFO phenomenon you'll very quickly realise that the 'UFOs are military research projects' theory holds no water. There are a myriad of reasons for this. Of course some UFO sightings are definitley mistaken observations of military craft, and indeed there are probably military projects that are so advanced that they display seeming otherworldly capabilities.
But taken on the whole, the multitude of credible sightings throughout the last 60 years(and it's a lot), worldwide, of craft that are so varied in size, shape and color, performing unbelievable maneuvers, moving at unattainable speeds, disappearing and materializing, hovering and moving extremely slowly in complete silence. To say 'yeah, all military projects' is just plain ignorant.
There are also the multitude of cases, again worldwide, where witnesses have seen the occupants of these craft.
Basically if you have an open but skeptical mind, if you look into the subject with some seriousness, if you use your head a bit and stop being polarized into either the 'believer' or 'non-believer' camps you'll see there is a lot more to this subject that some simple explanation like 'UFOs? nah they're all military projects' or 'UFOs? nah they're all Nazi tech from WWII' and so on.

Originally posted by Illustronic
First of all I wish the two unrelated notions of life exclusive to earth in the Universe and extraterrestrial spacecraft visits to earth would stop being used as a sort of crutch logic point blurted out in some sort of defense against the idea that some just don't believe the distances of space has been traversed physically by aliens to ever have arrived here. I don't see a causal relationship between the two.

Just because I never met a native of Tajikistan in my house doesn't mean I don't believe Tajikistan exists. In every token punch-points defending strong beliefs there are analogies used that simply don't stand up alone to logic, I wish more folks would realize that. I also don't have any platinum, but I know it exists, it just never jumped into my jewelry box, that I'm quite sure of.

Dogon and the Sirius mystery , and Cherokee indians explains that Pleiadian star people came to Atlantis in ancient times, intermingling with Earth inhabitants, and having children with the beginnings of higher consiousness.
The Pleiadians reportedly travel in a "Split Second" between the wast distances in space, for example from the Pleiades to this starsystem at a distance of about 420 light years, or much larger distances. Also Andromedans reportedly travel wast distances in space in a "Split Second" for example from one end of the galaxy to the other end of the galaxy, or from galaxy to another galaxy, and yes, still in a "Split Second".

Originally posted by Aliensun
Some day, the "history" of UFOs/ETs/Contact will be required teaching in schools.

In this conference Alex Collier explain that the quiet science of archeology has and will discover more and more of ancient history, including ancient Extraterrestrial civilizations, he says there is going to be aknowledgement of a temple complex that belong to ancient Lemuria that is apparently still intact lying approximately 150 miles southwest of Easter Island, Alex Collier says he is told it's huge, he also says he have been told that the Russians already know it's there, that they have photographed it and exployed it in many submarines.

Underwater structures near Okinawa have been filmed/photographed by divers, but it seems the ordinary scientific community can't figure out what these structures are, yet. The ordinary scientific community still speculate what these "underwater strucutures" are, but they look interesting and fascinating, especially the specific photo of the very special curved "triangular shaped" structure, and also unknown hieroglyphs have been found.

Then there is about 1600 cases of "Starchilden". Lots of parents world wide contact Mary Rodwell telling her that their children are in contact with Extraterrestrials from outer space, these "Starchildren" reportedly go at "ET high school", reportedly read other people's mind, reportedly have telepathic skills, reportedly are able to move objects through the air by using mind power, and reportedly have healing skills.

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