OCCUPY DC : Cops attack McPherson Park! Multiple Updates,

reply to post by XPLodER


Bro, that bigtoe guys just trolling big time. Don't feed him anymore and hopefully he'll leave. He's only regurgitating MM propoganda to get you riled up.

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by XPLodER
or better yet LEARN the acual issiues,

Fair enough... How did the siege and holding of Israeli consulate staff as hostages fit in with the "actual issues" of ows?

i have not heard of this?
and only non violent civic actions are allowed, anyone doing this will be NOT OWS

please supply more info

xploder

edit to add pieceful non violent civic actions,

Are these the images OWS wants to be on the media outlets? Or is it time to consider a new strategy. From an outsider's viewpoint (Defined as someone who doesn't get angry at either side and has never been to a camp.) this occupy strategy seems to be getting old. OWS moves in, there's a little press, and the police move them out. I mean, where is this going?

Originally posted by charles1952
Are these the images OWS wants to be on the media outlets? Or is it time to consider a new strategy. From an outsider's viewpoint (Defined as someone who doesn't get angry at either side and has never been to a camp.) this occupy strategy seems to be getting old. OWS moves in, there's a little press, and the police move them out. I mean, where is this going?

IMHO the courts are being forced into either,
police jurisdiction,
or
court jurisdiction

each eviction challenges the courts to rule on the ability to protest grave injustices under law,
you see the large banks have broken the law, and occupy has the RIGHT to seek redress of grave breaches of the law and are free to assemble to seek redress.

the fundimental ability to occupy is to seek remedy under freespeach and free assembly laws,
the evictions force the courts to "see" the "standing" of the protestors on constitutional grounds,
whereas the "acual" evictions occor under local staute.

it is up to the court to decide and first the standing of the protestors must be addressed,
is it constitutional?
then if standing is accepted by the court then a case of breach of rights can be established in a case of equal standing, this provides the ability to "inhabit" a constitutional standing of free assembly and free speach as an open and public call for redress of grevences.

noting the polices right to protect "public health and saftey"
they are able to evict but that would force the court to address "jurisdiction"

IMHO the court is more powerful in law than the police

xploder

Occupy= longest running joke I have seen...I hardly see how it's 'Breaking Alternative News' either..does anyone even care anymore?

Nah, surely any day now Obama is going to waltz out of the whitehouse and address the Occupy movement to notify them that in light of their work, their voiced have been heard...freedom and equality for all!

Albert Einstein stated the definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

reply to post by Pirateofpsychonautics


I find it funny how most people on ATS seem to regurgitate the same vomit that the MSM does regarding OWS. Maybe they are just accomplishing nothing, but at least they're trying to protest the things I've seen ATSers gripe about for years now. There is thread after thread here with titles like "Take America back" or "What can we do about this? etc, etc. And now that people are trying to peacefully protest the disparaging income inequality in this country they're labeled as just losers, druggies, theives, rapists, do-nothings, freeloaders, etc, etc. I personally am proud that there is at least some of my fellow Americans that are aware and awake of these injustices and are at least TRYING to be proactive about changing it instead of sitting on the internet typing about how something must be done, and in the end thats all it ever is, talk. The way I see it, true systemic change from within is only going to be possible two ways. With angry people trying to use their voice, or angry people trying to use their guns. At least they're trying the passive way first.

Know what makes me support these people the most though? The fact that the corporate media has paid them little attention, and what attention they do get on the news is always negative. There is always some kind of spin or comments about how OWS people are all just trying to make burning man or they don't know what they want on and on. The fact that they're name-calling and spinning things around tells me that they are trying hard to paint this movement as some kind of loserfest that is accomplishing nothing at all instead of what it really is. The begining of the third American revolution( IMHO the civil war was the second). And when the MM says enough times that occupiers are dirty lazy dregs of society(or domestic terrorists) and the majority of Americans believe it unquestioningly, thats when the real crackdown/mass arrests/FEMA camps will begin.

reply to post by XPLodER


ATS Thread - OWS Boston occupies Israeli embassy



Iranian ows occupied the british embassy.

reply to post by Xcathdra


while i certainly dont condone entering a consulate of a nation for the reasons of protest,
or
entering an embasy for the purpose of protest,

i do think the video shows clearly that the protest was
PIECEFUL AND LAWFUL

when asked to leave the protesters did as they were instructed.

this type of non violent, pieceful political statement is lawful

no hostages were taken, no property destroyed, and frankly the message was on target,
apartite of any sort is abhorent,
i refused to support it in south africa,
and i refuse to support it in gaza/palastien/isael

my country is NOT segrigated
we are equals
and it works

apartite does not work and is racist.

my family comes from jews,
i feel disgraced by isreal and her actions and ask for the true jewish nature of love and piece to shown and for apartite to end.

i do not condone entering either consulates or embasies for the purpose of protet,
however while people are suffereing i cant disavow the pieceful actions of non violent protestors seeking redress of greavences, as long as all laws are followed.

you tried to make it sound like a hostage situation to suit your ajenda of demonizing OWS,
i would contend the REAL hostage situation is the blockade of palistien.

i support isreal to be free and equal for ALL peoples to achive life happyness and saftey
i support palistien to be free and equal for ALL peoples to achive life happyness and saftey

how this is achivable, is only through the changing of hearts and minds,
through pieceful non violent demonstrations

which under the correct conditions are a RIGHT of your nations peoples.

dont hype the threat of pieceful protestors as terrorists or hostage takers
it really does look disingenious and a bit like you have an ajenda,

Fair enough... How did the siege and holding of Israeli consulate staff as hostages fit in with the "actual issues" of ows?

just present the facts without the scare words,
it makes you look desperate

xploder

Originally posted by theBigToe
Sorry.

I find it hard to stand behind protesters that break the law by breaking and entering private properties and illegally taking up residence in public areas.

Some said the same about the Boston Tea Party.

Wait till spring time!



With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by XPLodER


Its not peaceful or lawful when you illegally occupy a space not beloning to you. Its not lawful or peaceful when you destroy private / public property. Its not peaceful or lawful when you don't allow people out of a location.

Unlawfully depriving an individual of their freedom of movement is in fact taking a hostage and if done for a specific time period is kidnapping.

There is no excuse you can offer that would make their actions legal and doing so only makes you look desperate to defnd them for your own agenda.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by XPLodER

 

Its not peaceful or lawful when you illegally occupy a space not beloning to you. Its not lawful or peaceful when you destroy private / public property. Its not peaceful or lawful when you don't allow people out of a location.

at no point in ANY of the videos i saw was any person HELD or TOUCHED or BLOCKED or INTIMIDATED
you are mistaken,

Unlawfully depriving an individual of their freedom of movement is in fact taking a hostage and if done for a specific time period is kidnapping.

LISTEN TO YOURSELF, people sitting on the floor in the reception is not threatning behaviour, it is not taking hostages, you are being dramatic and silly, these people were a THREAT to NO ONE, and when acually asked they left so pretty much NOT dangerous lol

There is no excuse you can offer that would make their actions legal and doing so only makes you look desperate to defnd them for your own agenda.

edit on 5-2-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

how about their right to leave when asked to lol
i mean if it was a problem why were they simply not ased to leave?
and then when they were asked to leave they did
hardly holding some one hostage when a simple pleasent request to leave is adherad to

wake up noddy,
this is not terrorism, kidnapism, or what ever else you claim.

this was a very respectful pieceful protest,
the only part i can critique is the fact they are on private property,
instead of at a public park

but as absolutly NON OF THEM WERE ARESSTED FOR A CRIME,

i consider your opinion to be just that, uninformed opinon

xploder

Originally posted by Cancerwarrior
reply to post by Pirateofpsychonautics

 

The fact that they're name-calling and spinning things around tells me that they are trying hard to paint this movement as some kind of loserfest that is accomplishing nothing at all

Probably the most accurate reporting in the history of Mainstream Media...

Originally posted by Cancerwarrior
And when the MM says enough times that occupiers are dirty lazy dregs of society(or domestic terrorists) and the majority of Americans believe it unquestioningly, thats when the real crackdown/mass arrests/FEMA camps will begin

Give it a rest! You, here are using the same tactic of fear as the mainstream media! FEAR! Show me the FEMA detention camp plans, if you can't then it's just speculation!

FFS.

I went to Occupy Melbourne to draw a conclusion based off experience and was embarrassed to be there...the people there were just the usual trendy uni students that like the sound of their own voice and rambling on about communism! My testicles have more brain cells than most of the people I heard speak..

La di da coffee shop revolutionaries...it is such a joke.

It's nothing but the "we don't do or think anything wrong, you should be ashamed of acting human" crowd...

Originally posted by XPLodER
at no point in ANY of the videos i saw was any person HELD or TOUCHED or BLOCKED or INTIMIDATED
you are mistaken,

The actions of the protesters violated diplomatic protocol. Their actions prevented consulate staff from entering or leaving the site. The protesters were inside the consulate. When you get time feel free to look up the PA statute on what constitutes intimidation.

Originally posted by XPLodER
LISTEN TO YOURSELF, people sitting on the floor in the reception is not threatning behaviour, it is not taking hostages, you are being dramatic and silly, these people were a THREAT to NO ONE, and when acually asked they left so pretty much NOT dangerous lol

I am telling you how the law works in the US. Any particular reason you are so insistent on excusing criminal behavior? I mean you obviously support the OWS movement since your here defending them. How exactly can you identify with OWS while at the same time condone their illegal actions? Kind of hypocritical dont you think?

Originally posted by XPLodER
how about their right to leave when asked to

lol

When you enter an embassy to occupy it, your rights dont include to leave.
They had no business being inside the consulate in the first place. Please explain how OWS occupying the Israeli consulate over wall street greed are related? Also, the moment a consulate official of police officer tells you to leave, and you refuse, you are now trespassing and can be forcibly removed.

Originally posted by XPLodER
i mean if it was a problem why were they simply not ased to leave?

If a group of people chanting / screaming and carrying on walk into your house are you going to allow them to do so while constantly asking them to leave with no success?\

The point you are missing is they should not have been their in the first place. It doesnt belong to them nor does it belong to the US. The consulate is under the control of the Israli government.

Originally posted by XPLodER
and then when they were asked to leave they did

hardly holding some one hostage when a simple pleasent request to leave is adherad to

As I stated I am giving you what the law says and could have been applied to the protesters. There should not have to be a pleasant request for them to leave. Maybe the ows protesters could have pleasantly asked the consulate officials if they can do a sit in instead of just taking what they want and everyone else be damned.

Originally posted by XPLodER
wake up noddy,
this is not terrorism, kidnapism, or what ever else you claim.

Im sorry I didnt realize you were an expert on Us Domestic law. By all means tell me how their actions dont meet the criteria.

Originally posted by XPLodER
this was a very respectful pieceful protest,
the only part i can critique is the fact they are on private property,
instead of at a public park

Its NOT peaceful when you force your way into a foreign consulate while chanting and screaming and refusing to leave.

Again why are you condoning this groups actions of breaking the law?

Originally posted by XPLodER
but as absolutly NON OF THEM WERE ARESSTED FOR A CRIME,

Actually arrests were made at the Israeli consulate in Boston. Actually arrests were made at the Isreali embassy in San Francisco for the exact same thing - OWS people storming the consulate and acting like asshats.

Originally posted by XPLodER
i consider your opinion to be just that, uninformed opinon
xploder

No.... not opinion, but fact. I consider your stance on this as being naieve, condoning violence / illegal actions by OWS while arguing the people OWS affected should be the ones to back down. You have absolutely no idea how State / Federal law works in the US, and you are using your lack of knowledge in those areas to make a failed argument in an effort to somehow justify the actions of these clowns.

It needs to be remembered that these sorts of actions, are ultimately manifestations of desperation and fear. It can generally be assumed that the brutality of their response, is proportional to the level of desperation they are really feeling about keeping control of the situation.

Occupy need to keep pushing. Do not do it violently, and do not do it with vandalism or destruction of property; but the pressure needs to be maintained on the police. This will not be won in the courts; the earlier victory there was a good thing, but the police do what they want, irrespective of what the courts decide, at this point.

The psychopaths are gradualists; they are relentless. In order to drive them back, our own level of tenacity cannot be less. Hold the line, and keep pushing.

reply to post by petrus4


Why put pressure on the Police? They have nothing at all to do with the issues ows has.

Pressuring the police in order to gain economic change?

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by petrus4

 

Why put pressure on the Police? They have nothing at all to do with the issues ows has.

Pressuring the police in order to gain economic change?

These orders issued to the police to use force, are not coming from any known channels. The last couple of cases of police brutality, where incidents where the relevant mayors denied all knowledge of what had happened. We don't know who is setting them on Occupy; it's someone further up the chain who we can't see.

The police themselves, in this case, are therefore the only people who pressure can be applied to.

Shoot first, ask questions later.... in this case it is justified.

Originally posted by Pirateofpsychonautics
Give it a rest! You, here are using the same tactic of fear as the mainstream media! FEAR! Show me the FEMA detention camp plans, if you can't then it's just speculation!

Well I guess I should have put IMHO or something in there. Thought it was pretty obvious that this was my own personal opinion but hey, maybe not so obvious for some. There is alot of circumstantial evidence of this happening, as well as examples from history. To me, if it walks and talks like a duck, then its probably a duck.

The more that the MM tries to paint these people with the same brush, denouncing and making fun, and just plain NOT reporting on any of this tells me that they're trying hard to discredit it. And the harder they try to disredit something, the more it makes me all for it. No matter what the topic being discussed is. Maybe because they don't want people who still are clinging to their jobs and are a part of the system to actually think about why these people are pissed off in the first place? More and more people are forecasted to lose their jobs this year. The government can manipulate the numbers all they want but I still think(IMHO....so you dont demand some "proof" of this.) this movement will grow more and more as more and more people become dispossessed and have nothing left. How can it not? These are not just dope-smoking college kids, its people of all colors, all backgrounds, all walks of life that have lived their lives the way the system has told them to. Only to be wronged by the very same system they have served all their lives. OWS means to me that people are waking up to this, and maybe this is just the first step of awakening to other things for many of them. So how can this possibly be a bad thing? Maybe your experience was different when you went. Maybe you have a nice job, nice car, nice house, nice checking account. What would you do if the company you worked for laid you off to boost their quarterly profits, then you look and look, but nobodys hiring for anything than maybe a part time job flipping burgers or something. Then your housenote goes so high while you're sitting around mailing out applications all day you cant afford the payment and are evicted? Maybe you're lucky enough to have family and friends to take care of you, but if you don't, where do you go? What do you do? Who would you blame for this? I honestly don't see how anyone on a site like ATS could not be for this happening. And while I would like to see a peaceful ghandi type revolution here in the USA, I just don't see it happening. I think once people are ignored and beaten by batons long enough, thats when the protests turn violent, and thats when the gov. cracks down with martial law to contain these new "domestic terrorists". (IMHO) The disinfo agents on ATS has gotten really bad while I was gone I see.

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by XPLodER
at no point in ANY of the videos i saw was any person HELD or TOUCHED or BLOCKED or INTIMIDATED
you are mistaken,

The actions of the protesters violated diplomatic protocol. Their actions prevented consulate staff from entering or leaving the site. The protesters were inside the consulate. When you get time feel free to look up the PA statute on what constitutes intimidation.

i have CLEARLY STATED that i disagree with protests on,
embasies, consulates or delegate assmeblies AND in other ATS threads i have stated
that IMHO
THAT NO PROTESTS TAKE PLACE,
within court houses,
within state and local legislative assemblies,
or within the walls of DC

and to protest in PUBLIC PARKS.
as clear as i can be on this matter

I am telling you how the law works in the US. Any particular reason you are so insistent on excusing criminal behavior? I mean you obviously support the OWS movement since your here defending them. How exactly can you identify with OWS while at the same time condone their illegal actions? Kind of hypocritical dont you think?

i support the right to free asembly and free speach in balence with the comunities needs, while adhering to all public order requests. i do not condone their illegal actions, as i have previously stated i think the venue was poorly choosen.

Originally posted by XPLodER
i mean if it was a problem why were they simply not ased to leave?

If a group of people chanting / screaming and carrying on walk into your house are you going to allow them to do so while constantly asking them to leave with no success?

what is a protest again?

The point you are missing is they should not have been their in the first place. It doesnt belong to them nor does it belong to the US. The consulate is under the control of the Israli government.

i have not disagreed with the fact that diplomatic consulates embasies and other places are inapropriate for protest, i agree this was unwise by the protestors, but they are hardly wise in diplomatic protections and laws,
which is evedent by their actions.

i dont condone violence or destruction of any kind,
i abhore violence.

Originally posted by XPLodER
wake up noddy,
this is not terrorism, kidnapism, or what ever else you claim.

Im sorry I didnt realize you were an expert on Us Domestic law. By all means tell me how their actions dont meet the criteria.

THEIR INTENTIONS
their intent, they were not intending harm only pieceful protest,
non violent, and hopefully get dialoge
i agree this is NOT the way to go about it

Its NOT peaceful when you force your way into a foreign consulate while chanting and screaming and refusing to leave.

Again why are you condoning this groups actions of breaking the law? at no point have i condoned the action of entering any building ANYWHERE FOR ANY REASON.
the only protest i condone is on public land in public parks,
these protesters are not legal experts, they would have llittle understanding on the secrity implications for "entering a building"

Actually arrests were made at the Israeli consulate in Boston. Actually arrests were made at the Isreali embassy in San Francisco for the exact same thing - OWS people storming the consulate and acting like asshats.

i disagree with the venue of protest,
and the fact that it is on deplomatic soil,
but the message is right on point, why segrigate?
why apartide?

No.... not opinion, but fact. I consider your stance on this as being naieve, condoning violence / illegal actions by OWS while arguing the people OWS affected should be the ones to back down. You have absolutely no idea how State / Federal law works in the US, and you are using your lack of knowledge in those areas to make a failed argument in an effort to somehow justify the actions of these clowns.

the one big point you seem to overlook every time,
did they have intent before hand to storm the embasies?
was their intent pieceful?
was their intent non violent?
was their intent to gain some dialouge?

or were they a mob?
i will still contiune my support for pieceful non violent protest in public parks,
you miss a big point here my friendly adversary

they DIDNT WANT TO HURT ANYONE,
this got out of control,
these people intended to be heard,
i agree with being in a public place and voicing "public opinion"

you try to make it sound like this was some take hostages and prisoners,
when people were CIVIL
and acted as CIVILIANS,

most people dont know consulate and diplomatic secrity laws and tecnicalities.
IF THEY DID THEY WOULD NOT GO THERE TO PROTEST

so to take CIVILIANS and use embasy or consulate protections to make them CRIMINALS for protesting,
when to do so on the street is legal? where is the sign WARNING PEOPLE OF THE CHANGE IN LAW?

Originally posted by XPLodER
Im sorry I didnt realize you were an expert on Us Domestic law. By all means tell me how their actions dont meet the criteria.

Actually all you are doing is giving your opinion in lieu of actual law and making excuses for the actions of the protesters.

I have 10 years of law enforcement experience so yes, i'm willing to tell you that you are wrong in your understanding of how our laws work and apply. and what constitutes a crime and what doesn't.

Whats your background?