Are Israel / Iran working together?

Disclaimers: Please do not test me on these; I will not debate them, period. (And, more importantly, they aren’t the topic of the thread.)

Allow me to begin by saying emphatically NO this is not a trolling thread.
This is not an anti-Semite thread. (I do pray for the peace of Jerusalem upon occasion as the bible says to do)
And this is NOT a Zionist thread, nor a “Jews rule the World, rule the media, run the banks, run the lemonade stand down the street.” Ad nauseum.

Now do I believe there are elements of these things that are true? Yes, because govts are run by men, and most men only care about this life, and all the money, power, and fame they can get their greedy lil hands on.
One further caveat; I view things through a prophetic mindset, it’s usually how I see things concerning Israel. If you could care less about bible prophecy, this thread may mean lil to you, but I would ask that you do not mock those that do believe. Also, this is not a prophecy thread either. (This means you brothers & sisters in Christ.) I do not wish to get into whose interpretation is right & wrong, and I could absolutely CARE LESS what the early church fathers said, b/c plainly put, there was no Israel when they lived, so their opinion is moot.

If my disclaimers seem rude or too restrictive, I apologize; they are only meant to stop fires & thread derailments BEFORE they begin, nothing more, so let’s begin.

Iran is looking for the 12 Iman, (which is their version of the Messiah) you can find that info here, you can find the lie that Ahmadinejad isn’t looking for him here (or changed his mind) and you can find exactly what the 12’ers (those that believe in the prophecy here. So what is the point? How does Israel play into all of this, let alone AGREE with Iran? The thought is repugnant to some, and laughable to the rest, right? Maybe, maybe not. Consider the fact that on March 2nd 2010 the head of the Temple Mount Institute, (The place most responsible for Temple proceedings, rituals & forward momentum) Rabbi Chaim Richman, announced the birth of a Kosher Red Heifer here. Keep in mind that in ’97 & ’02 this same announcement was issued about two other red heifers, but within six months’ time, both were disqualified. This third one has NOT (as of this posting) been disqualified. There are ZERO announcements stating such, and further proof that it is still indeed kosher. That “proof” can be found here with the announcement of an animal sacrifice that hasn’t happened in over 1500 years.
But what does this religion lesson have to do with Iran? Will you get to the point already? (Patience padawan, the background info is important so you can understand the mentality behind these two religions/powers)
Iran believes that they are responsible for the upcoming Mahdi to appear, and that they are to ""lead the way"". Keep in mind, Iran must remain intact; if they go to war with Israel directly, they will lose. Iran has always used “proxy states” to weaken Israel. Gaza, Lebanon, Syria, etc without getting directly involved. The purpose of this is to be the number one power in the middle east by weakening their neighboring countries & by ensuring the Mahdi , (Islam’s most religious leader next to Muhammad) will reside with them. You can read the in-depth belief of the Mahdi & it’s connection with Iran here. Also, keep in mind that Iran is NOT Arabic! They’re Persian!
Now we have Iran’s motives defined, what about Israel?
Depending on your POV, it is either the United States trying to undermine Israel’s stability in the Middle East by replacing (for the most part) benign rulers (despots) that have pro-West ideals, (read Mubarak who has been pro-West for 30 years) & Gadhafi who basically was trying to make Libya an independent nation, (you can see his “virtues here at ATS) with militant anti-Israel leaders to make the M.E. even more unstable. OR, and this is a big “OR”, it is Israel leading the U. S. MIC to make the M.E. unstable to bring about the coming Middle East war which would lead to the building of THEIR (Israel) third temple.
Absurd? What crazy thoughts lead you to publish such asinine rubbish? Well, Israel has been waiting for the Third Temple for quite some time, but they know (Israel) that the time to build the Third temple won’t happen until there’s a war first, specifically the war of Gog/Magog in Ezekiel 38 & 39.
The nation’s listed in Ez. 38 & 39 are as follows: Russia, Central Asia, Turkey, (which was no longer an ally as of 2009) Iran, Sudan, Libya, & “other Islamic nations” as the bible states. Do you see the connection? Why is it that the Arab league is HELPING the US? For surely there should be solidarity in the Middle East to come against the US & Nato, for a true legitimate Jihad. And yet there isn’t one, why? Because pro-West leaders and the ones that wish to be left alone to rebuild and help their people, and being replaced with those that are very anti-Israel.
Is Israel setting up the Military Industrial Complex of the West so that they can have their “war” so they can build their Third Temple? Rabbi’s can read the Torah as well as anyone else, and know that they won’t get a Third Temple until THIS war occurs. They clearly believe that it is feasible, since they already are acclimating their people to the idea of animal sacrifices again with last year’s sacrifice. Furthermore, unbeknownst to most gentiles, there is an age limit involved with the Red Heifer. It MUST be sacrificed within three years of its birth. It’s also important to note that the importance of the Red Heifer is for purification purposes, the temple can’t even be built until this purification process happens. To go back to the Old Testament history we have God's Covenant with Abraham stamped with this number of Divine perfection (Gen 15). It was (like David's, 2 Samuel 7) Divinely "ordered in all things, and sure." God was ONE, i.e., the one party to it; for Abraham, who would willingly have been the other party, was put to sleep, that the Covenant might be unconditional, and "sure to all his seed." The Divine seal is seen in the choice of three animals, each of three years old (the heifer, the she-goat, and the ram). These, together with the two birds (the dove and the pigeon), made five in all, marking it all as a perfect act of free-grace on the part of a sovereign God. Source.
Is it possible that the Jun 2011 sacrifice, sanctioned by Rabbi’s I listed prior are the bird sacrifices mentioned in this passage of scripture? continued on next post.

Or are the wars going on a backdoor way of the United States to try and ultimately steal the Leviathan Oil fields that reside over there off the coast of Hafia by strengthening Israel’s enemies?
The end result is that Iran wants this war, Israel wants this war, and apparently even the Arab League wants this war, apparently to set up the region’s version of “salvation” be it either in the form of the Mahdi, or the Third Temple.
Even the embargoes help Iran! They have no processing refineries, so they can become self-sufficient; why?! They can’t afford it? They have the second largest oil field on the planet next to S. Arabia, and they have no collateral to make these plants? Why hasn’t Russia & China, allies of Iran INSISTED on them making these plants, so that these embargoes don’t have as much teeth as they apparently do? (Keep in mind, with these embargoes, they affect the common man, not TPTB in Iran, therefore their recruitment of suicidal bombers, and calls to “drive out the Infidel” will be much more largely heard, which wouldn’t exist if Iran was more independent.)
And please don’t compare these current days/times with ages past. Sure, we have had elements of these things happening at different times, but never all of these elements at ONCE, at the same time, as they are happening NOW.
Tell me what you think, am I mad? Insightful? Delusional? A prophet? Or just someone looking to stir things up? I welcome your comments, but I must insist that if you don’t take the time to read the links provided, or the scriptures given, you won’t see the “big picture” as I have painted it.

I have seen stranger things

Hashem Aghajari, Iranian historian
Hashem Akbarian, Iranian wrestler
Hashem Amoli, Iranian ayatollah
Hashem Beikzadeh, Iranian footballer
Mohammad Hashem Pesaran, British-Iranian economist
Mohammad Hashem Taufiqui, Afghan politician

link

While other names of God in Judaism are generally restricted to use in a liturgical context, HaShem is used in more casual circumstances. HaShem is used by Orthodox Jews so as to avoid saying Adonai outside of a ritual context. For example, when some Orthodox Jews make audio recordings of prayer services, they generally substitute HaShem for Adonai; a few others have used Amonai.[15] On some occasions, similar sounds are used for authenticity, as in the movie Ushpizin, where Abonai Elokenu

link

it can get tricky----
ashkeNAZIs make up most of the jews in the jewish faith
NAZI Nationalist Socialist movement (US is somewhat identical but more watered down) Hitler Holocaust WW2

anti-semitic would truly mean anti arabic not anti jew (ashkeNAZI)

Did you know NAZI is a sumerian god?
link


We see all because we dont fit in anywhere

Anybody that even contemplates Israel and Iran working together must be thiker than treacle. I mean really are you that dumb?

Im going to just go out on a huge leap here and answer your question with an, "ummmmmmmmm, HELL NO"

If you are not even going to look at the "proofs" I have provided feel FREE not to even bother posting. This material took over 90 minutes to put together, edit and link correctly, so your two minute "perusal" means nada.

Sniping should be beneath everybody. And frankly I don't see how the names of God are relevant to this discussion. tyvm.

Originally posted by schadenfreude
If you are not even going to look at the "proofs" I have provided feel FREE not to even bother posting. This material took over 90 minutes to put together, edit and link correctly, so your two minute "perusal" means nada.

Sniping should be beneath everybody. And frankly I don't see how the names of God are relevant to this discussion. tyvm.

Iran have openly said they will destroy Israel given the chance, Isreal have openly said Iran needs wiping off the map. And Iran is prodominantly Muslim that so happens to be Judaism's biggest hate and vice versa. why would anybody pay any attention to your thick comments?

reply to post by michael1983l


Since you asked a legitimate question, I'll give you a legitimate answer. The "TLR version is as follows.

Iran wants war in the M.E. to bring about their "Messiah", Israel wants Iran to bring war in the M.E. to bring about their Third Temple. (Found in Ezekiel 38 & 39) They both share ultimately, in the same goals; war to further along their version of "salvation". Both believe their version of it is the "right" way, or only way to instigate it, (read "my God is better than your God" if you must) but ultimately according to THEIR faiths, this is the only way for it to come to pass.

The links and bible verses I provide show THEIR mindsets so you can see how they came to believe this, which is the reason for the title of this thread in the first place.

reply to post by schadenfreude

The end result is that Iran wants this war, Israel wants this war, and apparently even the Arab League wants this war, apparently to set up the region’s version of “salvation” be it either in the form of the Mahdi, or the Third Temple.

^^ That is so true. Everyone wants a war, more than just those mentioned above. I've seen other theories mentioned that included Christian extremist reasons also, to bring about new beginnings.

I haven't read through your links yet, and I only skimmed once, but that paragraph stood out.
I'd bet that the powers that be, talk to each other more than we can imagine, arranging things.......


I've heard stranger things, I'm going to read through better now

reply to post by snowspirit

Thank you snowspirit. I KNOW how this sounds at first, which is why I posted multiple disclaimers beforehand. I fully expect blowback in being labeled multiple things, despite words to the contrary. (Anti-semite, zionist, etc) And i realize that the very idea is laughable out of hand, but there are timetables involved here (the red heifer for example) that can NOT be so easily dismissed. (The first genuine red heifer, if this cow stays "kosher" for instance, is itself a biological ticking clock that has not been seen in Israel in OVER 2000 years, and MUST be sacrificed while it is three years old! ) It was announced 3/2/2010.

That's nothing to laugh about or make little of. It doesn't matter if anyone here at ATS believes it or not, THEY (Israel) does. And Iran has been looking for a reason to bring in the Mahdi for awhile now.

It seems perfectly reasonable to me, that they both will get their chance to kick-start their war if things continue to the way they have. Also keep in mind, we haven't seen Iran's response to the death of their scientists yet!

I just spent an hour reading all of the links you suggested as your sources, and I'm very grateful for your contribution and time.

It does seem quite curious that their end results are the same, "the second coming". So it doesn't seem too far fetched that there would be some who would encourage "the enemy" to further the prophecy.

The constant preparations by extremists on both sides are moving along at an eye opening pace.
Thanks for the thread
The Rev.

reply to post by reverandrandy


Well honestly Rev, I'm not expecting the second coming so much as the beginnings of the Ps. 83 war, which happens before Ez. 38 & 39. But, as you can see, there is already confusion in the thread b/c a subject of this magnitude can't be digested in 30 second soundbites, which is why I didn't even bother including it.

I was hoping that current events could persuade those that don't believe the bible to at least look at the reasoning behind my thesis, despite the religious connotations involved, but it would appear that's not the case, so be it.

At least it's "out there" for anyone to see, so my conscience is clear.

Thanks for stopping by.

The religious reasons for both wanting war may be the front for the economic policies.

The citizens are locked in a religious "war" being fueled by forces of higher financial status, not by God.

As it all stands right now, both sides are benefiting from all the political/media hype.

Find who really controls the business/finance on both sides, and you find the masters of this game.

The "second coming" may actually be a re-structuring of Iran's central bank !!

reply to post by xuenchen


I don't agree this has anything to do with "money" per se.

Delusion. Power. And through that, money, maybe.

But again, this is what THEY believe, and it would seem in no uncertain terms that they're both willing to do anything to see it come to pass.

In this day & age I know the old adage "follow the money" makes sense, in almost every aspect of one's daily life, but believe it or not there's a huge bit of the population out there that believes religion is more important. Now you can laugh and besmirch them all you want, (not saying you have personally you understand?) but as I see it, the world is looking for a "savior" to help fix this mess we're in. The way the world is heading is untenable, unless someone comes along "with all the answers."

I don't think it's a stretch to suggest that something is coming, and I doubt it's a dollar bill. Or a yen, or an euro, or the Amereo, or whatever you wanna call it.
Thanks for stopping by.

I'll tell you whats coming, the concept of Mahdi in Islamic scriptures is not 100% agreed upon. Simply because its not mentioned in the Quran openly and is only mentioned in certain hadith (sayings of the Prophet). Now, your premise is kind of interesting, and since I've been following this information for a while now I didn't feel the need to bring up all of your links. I am aware of whats going on and how these two cultures are fuelling a war they feel is necessary to bring about some kind of worldly grandeur.

But how many times have people done this over the course of history? I being a Muslim know that there have been many men who claimed to be Mahdi's and what not and have claimed that the end times are near. I do not doubt that the end time is near, but expecting a saviour to come and save us from ourselves is not something I'm going to adhere to. Its completely and utterly against Islamic spirit to do so. Islam puts high emphasis on personal attainment and achievement of faith and peace in human dealings. It has never put and never will put emphasis on some man saving our butts from ourselves. You might think this is against the whole notion of God sending a messenger in the first place, but the Quran refers to these men as messengers, and not saviors per se for a reason. Because you alone are responsible for your own saving. This is why a Muslim like me is against the whole concept of Savior (or someone dying for my sins) for according to the understanding that God is Most Fair, only those who are responsible for a sin can pay for it, or carry the full responsibility of it.

Yes we feel like we are suffering as time goes by, yes we feel like people are becoming more and more corrupt, but this isn't something that fell out of the sky. This is something every single one of us has contributed to, if we decide to complain about it. Everytime someone dies somewhere in injustice and you don't speak about it, you're at fault. So expecting some guy to come and save us while we sit on our butts and contribute to the corruption is beyond hypocritical if you ask me.

So what is coming? A big disappointment thats what. Be it through war or through peace, nothing will come. No one is coming to save us. We have our own brains to do that with.

reply to post by nusnus


I could argue your points, line by line, and maybe even get a good ol' fashion Holy War going on here, but that aint my purpose. What I will argue with you however, is that according to what I have read, it would seem that the Qua ran doesn't negate what I have said here. Take a look.

answering-islam.org...

Now I'm earnestly not looking for a Islam vs. Christianity debate here, and I mean that. I try to remain true to the scriptures, I have no agenda here, I'm not getting paid. And ya know what? Most of my brothers & sisters in Christ disagree with me on certain things & views I hold. And you know what? I'm OK with that, b/c MY studies, MY readings, aren't guided by what a man says on sunday morning, but by what the holy spirit tells ME.

Now if it contradicted what the scriptures say, that'd be different and they'd have a point, but they don't. I guess the only thing I'm asking of you is that if what you says is something you heard from an Iman, or something you read in the Qua ran?

That's all I ever asked of anybody, anywhere. If you're respectful, I'll be respectful. If you act like a butt, I'll return the favor. (I often try not to, but I'm a passionate man, sometimes the old nature kicks in.)

And if YOUR scriptures agree that MY scriptures aren't demonic or unholy, then where do you stand?

That's all I'm asking, what do the scriptures and the events in the daily news SAY? Nothing more, nothing less.

God bless you.

To clarify your post OP, you aren't stating that Iran and Israel are working together, but share in the desire for a common means towards their own respective ends. Is this correct? If so, then I agree.

It's easy to discount the motives of the leaders not meshing with the ideals of the conservative orthodoxy, but that's not accurate even in the west. In the beginning Bush was very forthright with his terminology in dealing with the war, but that was later toned down.

When Bush said:

We're confident, too, that history has an author who fills time and eternity with his purpose. We know that evil is real, but good will prevail against it. This is the teaching of many faiths, and in that assurance we gain strength for a long journey.

Was he pandering by using religious rhetoric, or does this accurately reflect his understanding of purpose? I've never looked into Bush and his beliefs, but I do wonder if Bush was a Christian Reconstructionist. This would better explain the apparent incongruity of pursuing a belief, but also wealth and control; the end game being a theocracy.

Ahmadinejad believes in the interpretation of prophecy as interpreted by the Ayatollah Khamenei. In it, Iran plays a powerful role in bringing about the 12th Imam. Some argue that the Imam Mahdi is not the messiah and can therefore not be claimed the anti-christ, but in the Tazkarat ol-Olia it states, "the Mahdi will come with Jesus son of Mary accompanying him", with Jesus' role as prophet being subservient to that of the Imam Mahdi.

Islam is as varied as Christianity, but we are dealing with specific people who have the power and control. Here is a subtitled video to gain a better understanding of what is being relayed as prophetical interpretation to the people in the region:



To rule it out with the Jews, who's religion has been the commonality which has held them together as a people despite every attempt to destroy them, and say that their leaders aren't swayed by prophecy and rabbinic council is foolish. In fact, despite the borderline poverty that the majority of Israel live in, each rabbi is paid directly by the state a guaranteed $60K a year, plus perks.

No, it's wrong to discount the power that religion and prophecy holds over leaders. The Bible states that the leaders are appointed by God. Even an agnostic has to admit the enticement to believe such a thing out of vanity if nothing else.

It is sometimes difficult to determine whether the respective prophecies are prophetic, or their leaders are using them as a playbook. The one doesn't necessarily rule out the other.