Tibet on Fire...

reply to post by Jay-morris

Was tibet a hell hole before chibese rule=yes!

Were you there, or are you relying on Chinese sources?

were the tibeten people slaves, tourtured and starving=yes!

No more so than under Chinese rule.

did the lama live like a king, like the other holy men=yes!

I think you have an exaggerated opinion of what life on the rooftop of the world was like.

Did he do anything about the horrible things being done to the tibeten people=No!

He became Dalai Lama at the age of 15, and went into exile by the age of 30. What would you have expected him to do? Invite American investment?

Has the western media lied about tibet and the lama=yes!

Not nearly as much as the Chinese.

Was the lama in contact with the american cia before chinese take over=yes!

Why shouldn't he have been? (By the way, it was his brother who was on the CIA payroll.)

Now ask yourself: why does China even care about Tibet? Why "liberate" its people? Could it have something to do with the fact that all of China's fresh water originates there... as does India's? The Dalai Lama has asked for an autonomous province governed by a democratically elected parliament. Do you have a problem with that?

Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by Jay-morris

 

...and this effects how the Tibetan should be free to choose their own path, how exactly?

Hate to break this to you, but many did indeed know the history prior. This effects the reasons we should feel outrage how exactly?

Seems that it should only reinforce the need to feel outrage, and do what we can to help. Don't you?

No, not many people do know the history of tibet. This site
alone tells you that. Let me ask you this, why is it that western
media never talk about what tibet was really like, and what the
lama is really like? Why dont they mention the slaves, the disgusting
torture and the starvation of its people? And why dont they mention
that these so called holy men lived like kings while most if the population
suffered. Why dont they mention that?

Why dont they mention the money china pumps into
tibet, and how many people there have benifited from
better schools, hospitals and jobs etc that would have
never happened under the lama rule.

No, the west paints a picture that tibet was a peaceful
place before the chinese took over, and that is just not
true!

reply to post by DJW001


Im on my mobile, so i cant quote and reply to your quotes.
It is commen knowledge that the lama was on the cia payroll.
Go look it up yourself!

As for saying that all the stuff i said are from the chinese
government, that is a load of rubbish! As not one of my
links are chinese based. The lama hides behind his smile
and peacful ways, but he is a liar, and not as holy as he
makes out.

Also saying he was only in charge for a small amount if time,
so its not his fault, is a very weak argument. 10 plus years is
long enough, but he done nothing about it. And this is the
man who won the nobel peace prize!

I am all for peace on this planet. Difference between you
and me, and alot of people, is i dont fall for the media/government
propaganda BS.

Did POTUS or the Sec of State ever mention any of this ? I don't remember it. How come there is no intervention? Oh right because China is communist.

reply to post by Jay-morris


You are defending Communist China? schools? Probably indoctrination mills. You must have missed it when China destroyed the temples there. Communists hate religion you know.

Chinese forces destroying temple

Originally posted by Jay-morris
All you people saying stop buying chinese goods are clueless. What
do you think happen to all the business ( and there are many) if this
happened? Your countries would be in deeper crap than they are already.
Dont bother saying it will make jobs in our countries because it will not, unless
you are gonna work for pennies to keep these companies alive.

As for the people saying how great the dela lama is ( jumping on the band wagon)
Why dont you do a bit of history reading and find out what tibet was like before
chinese rule. Do you believe it as heaven on earth, where everyone lived a peacful
life? Well, you are wrong. Most of the tibeten people were peasants, slaves, starving
to death while the holy people like dela larma were living like kings. It was a horrible
place. But , the dela lama is a great human being you all say!

You say your wife is Chinese - well that explains your ignorant views - the Chinese say what their leaders order them to say - they are even ordered how to think. Get real Man!

Originally posted by Jay-morris
reply to post by DJW001

 

Im on my mobile, so i cant quote and reply to your quotes.
It is commen knowledge that the lama was on the cia payroll.
Go look it up yourself!

As for saying that all the stuff i said are from the chinese
government, that is a load of rubbish! As not one of my
links are chinese based. The lama hides behind his smile
and peacful ways, but he is a liar, and not as holy as he
makes out.

Also saying he was only in charge for a small amount if time,
so its not his fault, is a very weak argument. 10 plus years is
long enough, but he done nothing about it. And this is the
man who won the nobel peace prize!

I am all for peace on this planet. Difference between you
and me, and alot of people, is i dont fall for the media/government
propaganda BS.

edit on 6-2-2012 by Jay-morris because: (no reason given)

You just proved that you do. I can't believe there are still people like you in the world - did you ever read a book in your life - oops yes, it was probably a little red one!

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


I never said china is or was perfect.

reply to post by quedup


Sigh! Do you know my wife, how she thinks and what
she feels, are you that great! Actually, my wife iften complains
about the chinese government, like many chinese do.
Have you ever been to china and talked to some of the chinese
people. Ir do you get all your news from the western bs media?

reply to post by quedup

You just proved that you do. I can't believe there are still people like you in the world - did you ever read a book in your life - oops yes, it was probably a little red one!

What, you cant believe that there are people who don't
fall for the media and government propaganda? I see you
cant even debate with my points. You would rather blindly
believe whatyou hear and what you see

If it wad not for people like me, the world would bd
full of people like you. And thats not good. Good for
the governments and media, but not good for the
people wanting the truth.

reply to post by Jay-morris

Have you ever been to china and talked to some of the chinese
people. Ir do you get all your news from the western bs media?

More importantly, have you ever been to Tibet or talked to Tibetan people? Or do you get all your information from Chinese BS media?

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by Jay-morris

 

Have you ever been to china and talked to some of the chinese
people. Ir do you get all your news from the western bs media?

More importantly, have you ever been to Tibet or talked to Tibetan people? Or do you get all your information from Chinese BS media?

Don't you read!? All my links have nothing to do with China, so i don't know why the hell you keep on saying this. You carry on believing that tibet was a lovely place before chinese rule, and that the lama is a peacful loving person. You keep on being a sucker for the media propaganda.

No, i have not been to tibet. I have travelled around china, but not tibet. My wife was a documentry maker in China, and she was part of a crew that made a documentry called 80 days around china. They spent a good part of their travels in tibet. My wife has been there a few times now.

reply to post by Jay-morris

Don't you read!? All my links have nothing to do with China, so i don't know why the hell you keep on saying this. You carry on believing that tibet was a lovely place before chinese rule, and that the lama is a peacful loving person. You keep on being a sucker for the media propaganda.

And I don't know why you keep saying I believe Tibet was a lovely place before Chinese rule. China illegally invaded Tibet, murdered its people and destroyed much of its cultural heritage. It continues to occupy it, and pays ethnic Han Chinese to move there in order dilute the population. The Hanification of Tibet is based on racism; it is essentially ethnic cleansing. Ask your wife how she feels about those smelly, flat faced mountain people. You can keep making excuses for Chinese racism and imperialism if you want, but at least see it for what it is.

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by Jay-morris

 

Don't you read!? All my links have nothing to do with China, so i don't know why the hell you keep on saying this. You carry on believing that tibet was a lovely place before chinese rule, and that the lama is a peacful loving person. You keep on being a sucker for the media propaganda.

And I don't know why you keep saying I believe Tibet was a lovely place before Chinese rule. China illegally invaded Tibet, murdered its people and destroyed much of its cultural heritage. It continues to occupy it, and pays ethnic Han Chinese to move there in order dilute the population. The Hanification of Tibet is based on racism; it is essentially ethnic cleansing. Ask your wife how she feels about those smelly, flat faced mountain people. You can keep making excuses for Chinese racism and imperialism if you want, but at least see it for what it is.

If China did not do it, someone else would have. Tibet was a complete and utter mess, ruled by supposedly holy people who did not care about its own people, hence the reason why thousands were tortured, slaves and starving to death. Someone had to overthrow these evil fake holy men.

And you are talking complete rubbish when you say that china are destroying their cultrial heritage because china knows that is what makes tibet alot of money. As for Han Chinese to move there in order dilute the population.lol lol what rubbish. Let me guess, you got that from the western media. The same media who never talk about what tibet was really like before chinese rule.

Please explain what you mean by "Ask your wife how she feels about those smelly, flat faced mountain people"

Please explain

reply to post by Jay-morris

If China did not do it, someone else would have. Tibet was a complete and utter mess, ruled by supposedly holy people who did not care about its own people, hence the reason why thousands were tortured, slaves and starving to death. Someone had to overthrow these evil fake holy men.

So what you're saying is that it is okay for a richer, technologically superior nation to invade another country, massacre its citizens and impose its own form of society upon it? Do you favor overthrowing the fake holy men in Iran, then?

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by Jay-morris

 

If China did not do it, someone else would have. Tibet was a complete and utter mess, ruled by supposedly holy people who did not care about its own people, hence the reason why thousands were tortured, slaves and starving to death. Someone had to overthrow these evil fake holy men.

So what you're saying is that it is okay for a richer, technologically superior nation to invade another country, massacre its citizens and impose its own form of society upon it? Do you favor overthrowing the fake holy men in Iran, then?

Massacre its citizens?
From wiki

After months of failed negotiations,[9] attempts by Tibet to secure foreign support and assistance,[16] and PRC[17] and Tibetan[citation needed] troop buildups, the People's Liberation Army (PLA) crossed the Jinsha River on 6 or 7 October.[18] Two PLA units quickly surrounded the outnumbered Tibetan forces and captured the border town of Qamdo by 19 October, by which time 114 PLA[6] soldiers and 180 Tibetan[6][7][8] soldiers had been killed or wounded (5,000 Tibetan soldiers died in battle according to Thomas Laird[4]). Active hostilities were limited to a border area controlled by the Government of Tibet northeast of the Gyamo Ngul Chu River and east of the 96th meridian.[19] After capturing Qamdo, the PLA broke off hostilities,[7][20] sent a captured commander, Ngabo, to Lhasa to reiterate terms of negotiation, and waited for Tibetan representatives to respond through delegates to Beijing.[21] Tibetan prisoners of war were generally well treated. After confiscating their weapons, the PLA soldiers gave the prisoners lectures on socialism and a small amount of money, before allowing them to return to their homes. According to Tenzin Gyatso, the current as well as the Dalai Lama of the time, the PLA did not attack civilians.[4]

Fake holy men in iran lol Its completly different. Islam, like christianity are violent religons. Buddism is totally against violence, so they say. So why were these holy men torturing, inslaving, and starving their people?

China liberated tibet from these cruel people. And tibet, even though still has problems, is a better place.

Let me ask you this, do you believe that tibet was a disgusting horrible place before chinese rule? Do you believe that the lama is a liar, and not as clean as people think he is?

Also, tell me why the western media never talk about tibet before china came in? Also, you have to remember that Britain invaded tibet and killed thousands of tibetan people. Oh, the western media never mention that too when they they speak about tibet

Im not saying that China has been perfect when it comes to tibet. But its much better than the hell hole it was before!

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


I never said china was perfect, far from it. But do you really
think tibet is worse of than it was before chinese rule? You think
it was okay for people to torture, inslave, and starve their people?

You think its right that the lama is looked at as this peacful, non
violent person, when clearly he is not?

Im sorry, but i dont believe that people should turn a blind eye
at the horrible things that happend in tibet before china took
over. China hss not been perfect, but its a damn sight better
place than it eas before china took over.

reply to post by Jay-morris

China liberated tibet from these cruel people. And tibet, even though still has problems, is a better place.

Mao was first and foremost a military strategist. He did not invade Tibet to "liberate" it. By occupying Tibet he seized the high ground on his border with southern Asia, securing him from potential assault from India, then still a member of the British Commonwealth. This left him free to attend to countries bordering China to the northeast and southeast. It also gave China control of the source of freshwater for all of Asia, including India and Pakistan. Tibet had always counted on its physical isolation for its defense; the army was a push-over and Mao knew it. A quick and easy conquest would also serve to sow fear in the western nations, exaggerating China's perceived importance and power.

Granted, Tibet was a feudal country with many corrupt religious leaders. In private Tibetans will tell you that the invasion was the result of the various lineages' "bad karma." The corrupt lamas are now in exile, where they live more luxuriously in a condo with central heating and a microwave than they ever lived in the richest monastery. They have no intention of returning. Now that the aristocracy has been liquidated or run off, and the land has been redistributed, China's work there is done. The Tibetans want China to GO HOME!

Chinese history consists of cycles in which power is centralized, grows incapable of governing, and the provinces on the periphery attempt to break away. This is followed by a period of civil war, and the process starts over again. The Chinese government is faced with secession by two provinces. One of them is Tibet, the other Xinjiang. Tibet has no proven natural resources and completely lacks the infrastructure to exploit them if they are there. Xinjiang is rich in known resources, including uranium. Not only does the extraction infrastructure exist, it is among the more industrialized inland regions. Furthermore, Urumxi is a large enough city in its own right to serve as a capital for an insurgency. China will inevitably need to choose which region to focus its efforts on. Xinjiang is the logical choice.

What does this mean for Chinese policy? It might be wise to stop demonizing the Dalai Lama, who serves as a popular nationalistic figurehead, and, instead, make great show of negotiating with him. China can choose a rising nation it wishes to cultivate (I'd recommend Brazil) to act as a moderator. This will allow them to appear magnanimous on the world stage by responding to Tibetan wishes while saving face as they redeploy their efforts to the more valuable Xinjiang. As a side benefit, they might add India to the negotiating mix. India might be willing to agree to settling their disputed border in a way favorable to China if Tibetan autonomy is part of the deal. But then, what do I know?

Keep buying that Chinese crap...

Seriously what have we gotten into bed with.....

reply to post by DJW001


Tibet did not have an economy. They were a complete mess with
most of their people suffering. You talk about china mass killing
the tibet people, which is bs, but do you know how many tibetans
died because of their rulers.

Tibet has gained a hell if alot since chinese rule. I know they
have not been perfect, and they still need to do alot more. Do
i think tibet could stand on their own two feet, no, i dont. China
has pumped so much money into tibet and its growth has been
good, esp with the train that runs from beijing into tibet.

You first made out that my links saying tibet was a hell hole
was from chinsse sources, then you turn around a couple of posts
later and said that you never said that tibet was not a bad place before
chinese rule. It sounds like you done a bit of investigating and realised
i was right.

Im all for buddism. I love their peacful outlook on life, and its one
of the few religons that i like. Tibet before chinese rule was not buddism,
and anyone who says it is should be ashamed of themselves. Where in
buddism does it say that you can inslave your people, torture them and
starve them?

The western media never mentions this, why? Instead they try and make
out that china invaded a place where everyone lived in peace under buddism.
They make out that the lama is this great man who only wants tibet to be free.
They never mention that the lama was in charge for years while all these disgusting,
horrible things were happening in tibet.

And, as this bored shows, people fall for it. And when you show them the truth,
they refuse to believe it. Western brainwashing is a powerful tool!