One Million Moms rally at JcPenny's to fire Ellen Degeneres for being GAY!

reply to post by andersensrm

however they wish. However, there comes a point, where certain parental action, or negligence leads to a society where people don't know how to use birth control

This is still Nanny Statism, Totalitarianism. A lot of people in this thread seem to believe in it, seem to believe the State has an obligation and a right to supercede parental authority because the State always knows better and the society will function better if all the cogs--oops chiildren are taught to function perfectly in society than things will run nice and smooth. That is the Dewey system. Congratutlaions! You just signed on to the NWO and I bet you never bothered with my posts on Antony Sutton.

You can also view my comments in another thread about how the Nanny State is inspecting the lunchboxes provided by parents and telling the children to eat McNuggets in place of the turkey sandwich because the sandwich didn't measure up to the State's standards on nutrition. The State is dictating what our children eat and learn and overriding the parents. This is what the State does. They think they know better.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


So its totalitarianism to make people not kill each other for the better of the society? This is the same thing, its just linked to a belief. We don't have to teach anything except, how to use birth control, and what diseases are out there. To inform people, not to control them. Its not about forcing anyone to do anything, except to know the facts. I see no problem in that.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by andersensrm

 

Whether they should or shouldn't have boycotted Glenn Beck is beside the point. The fact is they did boycott. Liberals always believe that their thing is better than the conservatives thing.

Great. I have no ties to liberals or conservatives, or Glenn Beck. I didn't push for the Glenn Beck boycotte, nor did I oppose it. I still don't get how this has anything to do with what I am trying to say.

Originally posted by andersensrm
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

So its totalitarianism to make people not kill each other for the better of the society? This is the same thing, its just linked to a belief. We don't have to teach anything except, how to use birth control, and what diseases are out there. To inform people, not to control them. Its not about forcing anyone to do anything, except to know the facts. I see no problem in that.

Where does the kill thing come into this? You are out of line on this. We have ordinary laws dealing with murder and that is as it should be. Teaching children that gay is good is all about engineering social and sexual mores. It is part of the Values Clarification going on in schools now for decades. I am sorry that people who are not informed about these things cannot distinguish between ordinary state laws and state indoctrination.

And by the way, I'm not buying the "I'm not a liberal" statement.

But look, you may not have ever heard of values clarification or realize that it is a specific technique used by the State to separate children from their parents values and instill the values the State wants to engineer for the students. Here I will help you because I know you really want to be an informed person.
www.gospelway.com...

People who doubt God and the Bible, also generally reject absolute values in favor of situation ethics. A favorite method used to influence students away from absolute values is "Values Clarification," sometimes called "Decision Making," "Values Education," "Moral Education," or "Critical Thinking." Sometimes it is not called anything; it is just used. To people not familiar with the technique, it may seem confusing and perhaps harmless. But serious consideration gives understanding of the method and its consequences.

This one goes into detail about the notions of values clarification, but one must understand that while educationists are under the impression they are helping children to develop their own ideas about moral issues, what they are really doing is separating the child from known parental values and instead dthe child becomes confused because his parents are always the first line of understanding. The true purpose is to undermine parental values because the State views its own values as being better (in this case the State believes it must make children accept the behavior of other members of society regardless of parental values. Certain lobbies now have overridden even the ordinary concerns of teachers, insisting that it is their values which must be promoted for the supposed sake of preventing bullying, but we know from their own literature that this is a bogus arument and used by the lobby to club people over the head to achieve it's goals, and guess what, the ends justify the means, as in classic Marxist thought.
In this case the State is peforming for a specific lobby.

Oops, I forgot the link to explain my last paragraph

www.sntp.net...

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by andersensrm
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

So its totalitarianism to make people not kill each other for the better of the society? This is the same thing, its just linked to a belief. We don't have to teach anything except, how to use birth control, and what diseases are out there. To inform people, not to control them. Its not about forcing anyone to do anything, except to know the facts. I see no problem in that.

Where does the kill thing come into this? You are out of line on this. We have ordinary laws dealing with murder and that is as it should be. Teaching children that gay is good is all about engineering social and sexual mores. It is part of the Values Clarification going on in schools now for decades. I am sorry that people who are not informed about these things cannot distinguish between ordinary state laws and state indoctrination.

Okay..... I didn't say anything about teaching kids about opinions. I said facts. If you think that providing our kids with the facts about sex, birth control, and STD's, then that is your opinion. Kill thing comes into this to show you that the totalitarianism isn't so black and white as you make it out to be. There is a big grey area, for example we have laws telling people what they can, and cannot do, like killing people. No need to get up on the specificities of what I am saying, rather the concept, as in anything you read. All I am saying, is the education system, which is responsible for providing facts to our younger generations, so they will be able to protect and prolong the society we are in now. This can be compared to the teaching of evolution. Which should be based purely of fact, and any opinionated ideas should be labeled as such, such as that evolution lead to humans. That statement is entirely based on subjective interpretation of facts. But the facts of mutating and adapting shouldn't be hindered, because certain interpretations of the facts contradict other peoples beliefs.

reply to post by andersensrm

It seems the argument you wished to make is that teaching kids that gay is good is the same thing as teaching kids that murdering is bad andthat both cases are appropriate for grade school kids. Is that the point you wanted to make?

And again, see my posting on values clarification, because the State seeks to indoctrinate children according to what it holds as values. I am certainly not the only parent to oppose this, and it is why I put my child in private schools instead of public. But I want to also impress on you that the Order of Skull and Bones at Yale is who first brought Hegelianism to our school system and brought the Dewey system as well. Dewey believed that people exist for the State, as did Karl Marx and other Totalitarians. The Order wants a NWOrder. George Bush Sr said it. Bush Sr is second generation Bonesman and Jr is third gen. First generation Prescott Bush helped finance Hitler. Members often go on to become CFR and put in prominent banking and other industry positions.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by andersensrm

 

It seems the argument you wished to make is that teaching kids that gay is good is the same thing as teaching kids that murdering is bad andthat both cases are appropriate for grade school kids. Is that the point you wanted to make?

No its not, and I won't post anymore because you won't even attempt to understand what I am saying. Good luck with life..

reply to post by andersensrm

I guess where I am coming from this, is I get that parents want the right to teach and raise their kids however they wish. However, there comes a point, where certain parental action, or negligence leads to a society where people don't know how to use

I worked at a shelter for women and children for almost four years. Oh I know what you mean when you speak of negligence (not the majority of the moms) but you would cry like a baby if you saw what I've seen
Andersensrm, I understand and agree with you that parents can be neglectful and oppress their children but I guarantee you, lol..... the world and their friends will influence and teach them without the help of our educational system. The funds for these classes can go for other subjects or supplies, or teachers pay, imo.

To go from one belief, to another, is extremely difficult, and admitting that you made mistakes stunned me.

I was looking past the subject and seeing things that I feared.
What changed was my "guilty until proven innocent" towards Ellen. My protective motherly-side came out like a bear because of the other issues the gay groups are trying to change.
The OP, imo, is about a public figure who made an agreement with JC Penny and because of JC Penny choosing her, she is being demonized.... for her sexual orientation by people who are looking past her... at their worse fears.

Exactly what is Ellen's job? Specifically. A Spokesperson.
She will promote JC Penny.... so far, that's all this is about.
It's hateful and presumptuous to call for the firing of her..... she hasn't done anything wrong.
Once I realized I was a part of the witch hunt.... I freaked. I'd like to think I'm an advocate for all people (I hate grouping and segregating people).
If Ellen starts promoting.... lets say, she begins to impede on the parental rights by promoting classes that most parents disagree with.... well, then I'd have to step back and take a longer look at things.

BUT... reality is... she has done nothing wrong and NOM's was promoting a witch hunt
No wonder she called them "haters"...

Originally posted by andersensrm

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by andersensrm

 

It seems the argument you wished to make is that teaching kids that gay is good is the same thing as teaching kids that murdering is bad andthat both cases are appropriate for grade school kids. Is that the point you wanted to make?

No its not, and I won't post anymore because you won't even attempt to understand what I am saying. Good luck with life..

Good luck with life? Alright if that is how you choose to end a discussion that is your right. What you are trying to do is beat me over the head to believe that it is necessary for the State to teach sexuality to kids. And that is what you think so fine, but if I have not understood your position, then go ahead and clarify it.

Originally posted by andersensrm

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by andersensrm

 

It seems the argument you wished to make is that teaching kids that gay is good is the same thing as teaching kids that murdering is bad andthat both cases are appropriate for grade school kids. Is that the point you wanted to make?

No its not, and I won't post anymore because you won't even attempt to understand what I am saying. Good luck with life..

Do you want the educational system to treat parents like NOM's treated Ellen?

NOM's is trying to force someone (JC Penny) to do what they think is best.... you don't like that either, I don't blame you.
Please try to put parents rights on the same level as you put gay rights.
Please try to see the education system as NOM's... forceful and overreaching.
Then try to see Ellen's conundrum is similar to the parents conundrum.

Originally posted by sweetliberty
reply to post by andersensrm

 

I guess where I am coming from this, is I get that parents want the right to teach and raise their kids however they wish. However, there comes a point, where certain parental action, or negligence leads to a society where people don't know how to use

If Ellen starts promoting.... lets say, she begins to impede on the parental rights by promoting classes that most parents disagree with.... well, then I'd have to step back and take a longer look at things.

BUT... reality is... she has done nothing wrong and NOM's was promoting a witch hunt

No wonder she called them "haters"...

Exactly I agree. I also agree with you that parents will learn via friends and family, others in society. The only thing I am worried about are the facts, which can be distorted or misread by family, and friends. But this is only my opinion. I personally would want my kids to know the facts about sex. When I took Sex Ed I learned primarily about the numerous amounts of diseases, what symptoms the dangerous ones have, as not to ignore them, and how to prevent them. Anything beyond that I think steps over the line. I do know people, whose parents could care less about them, and now they live in a house with 1 room, with 7 people, 3 living in the garage, with 15-20 cats, and a baby. Their house is a mess, and they're not in a very good position to take care of a baby. I can't help but think that this baby is bound to have the same life as her mother. I just don't see how giving everyone the facts on how our own reproductive system is bad, or a waste. But again thats just my opinion. Thanks for replying to my post.

Originally posted by sweetliberty

Originally posted by andersensrm

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by andersensrm

 

It seems the argument you wished to make is that teaching kids that gay is good is the same thing as teaching kids that murdering is bad andthat both cases are appropriate for grade school kids. Is that the point you wanted to make?

No its not, and I won't post anymore because you won't even attempt to understand what I am saying. Good luck with life..

Do you want the educational system to treat parents like NOM's treated Ellen?

NOM's is trying to force someone (JC Penny) to do what they think is best.... you don't like that either, I don't blame you.
Please try to put parents rights on the same level as you put gay rights.
Please try to see the education system as NOM's... forceful and overreaching.
Then try to see Ellen's conundrum is similar to the parents conundrum.

I see the similarities, but I also see the differences. The effects of knowing the facts, not opinionated interpretations of facts, can only be beneficial. I don't know of any situation where knowing the facts is a bad thing. That being said, schooling is something that is enforced in America. That is, you can't just not go to school. I can see how these facts about sex ed are available via the internet, and therefore should be up to the parents on when and where their kids learn about them. I think the problem is that it just will never get taught. The parents will never take the time out to do it, not intentionally, but no one is really thinking about that. So why not provide the facts through an institution that everyone has to go through, so that everyone knows the facts. Thats all I am saying, that this is what I think, and why I think it. Purely opinion, and in now way am I arguing that I am more right, or more wrong than anyone else.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by andersensrm

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by andersensrm

 

It seems the argument you wished to make is that teaching kids that gay is good is the same thing as teaching kids that murdering is bad andthat both cases are appropriate for grade school kids. Is that the point you wanted to make?

No its not, and I won't post anymore because you won't even attempt to understand what I am saying. Good luck with life..

Good luck with life? Alright if that is how you choose to end a discussion that is your right. What you are trying to do is beat me over the head to believe that it is necessary for the State to teach sexuality to kids. And that is what you think so fine, but if I have not understood your position, then go ahead and clarify it.

edit on 15-2-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

I tried to tell you what I am trying to say, but you keep going back to, " Im trying to get the state to teach sexuality to kids, and that gay is good". That is not even close to what I was getting at. I said that schools should teach the facts about sex: birth control and STD's. It doesn't have to keep going on beyond, hey this is how birth control works, and hey these are STD's, this is how to avoid them, and this is what you do if you get them. Thats all, you keep trying to say that I want to push it beyond that point. I will end a discussion, if people don't listen to what I say, and instead accuse me of saying something I didn't.

reply to post by andersensrm

The only thing I am worried about are the facts, which can be distorted or misread by family, and friends. But this is only my opinion

You're opinion is a seriously important concern and we all should be just as concerned.

I'm just throwing this out there and haven't thoroughly thought about it but ... maybe it would be a good idea if the local health department handed out a packet of information, to include a CD and some true/false questions, ect.... for the middle school ages and also the high school age children but the catch is this.... the packets are given to the parents so they can look it over and see for themselves if it's appropriate information for their children.

Maybe the packets could be given out during inoculations?

Originally posted by sweetliberty
reply to post by andersensrm

 

The only thing I am worried about are the facts, which can be distorted or misread by family, and friends. But this is only my opinion

You're opinion is a seriously important concern and we all should be just as concerned.

I'm just throwing this out there and haven't thoroughly thought about it but ... maybe it would be a good idea if the local health department handed out a packet of information, to include a CD and some true/false questions, ect.... for the middle school ages and also the high school age children but the catch is this.... the packets are given to the parents so they can look it over and see for themselves if it's appropriate information for their children.

Maybe the packets could be given out during inoculations?

There ya go. Fantastic Idea !!

reply to post by andersensrm


It might be a good idea to hand out the facts and information to those on welfare too.

__________________________________________

To get back on topic. You made me wonder about something.
If NOM's wanted to know the "what and why's" of Ellen's mission as a spokesperson for JC Penny, they should have went through the proper channels for answers.
I don't see where they did this. If they didn't ask questions.... then I've just realized another reason to be disgusted with them.
I'd rather not judge them too much further and I think this thread is just about done.

This has been real!
See ya on the boards.... as Spira would say.

Originally posted by sweetliberty
If they didn't ask questions.... then I've just realized another reason to be disgusted with them.

Yes. Ellen is gay.

That is the one and only reason.

HURRAY - so these moms hate homosexuals - NEXT.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by sweetliberty
If they didn't ask questions.... then I've just realized another reason to be disgusted with them.

Yes. Ellen is gay.

That is the one and only reason.

Hello Annee.
Ughhhhh, stop reminding me....

I have to wonder what information NOM's tells the moms during meetings or emails or however they share information.

Nm...
Thanks for everything Annee

Originally posted by sweetliberty
Please try to put parents rights on the same level as you put gay rights.
Please try to see the education system as NOM's... forceful and overreaching.
Then try to see Ellen's conundrum is similar to the parents conundrum.

What do you mean by "Parents" when you say "Parents rights?"

Do you mean "Homophobic Parents Rights"?
Do you mean Christian Parents Rights"?

I don't assume you mean Homosexual Parents Rights or.. "Liberal" Parents Rights, do you?

So if you aren't speaking about the group (Parents) as a whole, you are being as divisive as NOM is.

The Educational System isn't going to tolerate Hate Speech. Denigrating children solely on the fact that they are Gay would be Hate Speech.

Parents have choices. They can choose to put their children in a private school if they with tho indoctrinate their children with Homophobia, or they can continue to publicly support organizations like NOM and AFA to try to get laws to change. Both are valid -and- legal, but both are hateful.