Looming Threat of a Solar Superstorm - Popular Mechanics - Another Warning

Originally posted by rickymouse
reply to post by Eurisko2012

 

Satellites are designed to be shut off during a solar storm remotely and have some shielding. When a big solar storm hits, or better yet a series of midsize storms, earths fields expand and the satelites can then fall down or else be put in a useless orbit. Some satelites have engines to move them around to reposition them but their fuel is limited and this reduces their life expectancy. I just know a little about this, I'm sure there are some that can give you more complicated versions. Hopefully someone will correct me if some of my perception is flawed. I can always learn more. I like communicating in laymans terms. There's different names for the types of orbits. I refer to them as either moving, following the earth, or between the earth and sun. I don't understand how the last type can be in opposition with the sun though.

I read there about 860 active satellites in orbit.

If half of them fail then put new and improved satellites/spacecraft in orbit to replace them.

For every problem there is a solution.

Originally posted by KaiserSoze
I wouldn't worry too much, if all of our nuclear plants lose offsite power most of us won't have too long to fret over it.

WOW...Did not EVEN think about that.

Yup, (sigh) we'll all be screwed.

Originally posted by KaiserSoze
I wouldn't worry too much, if all of our nuclear plants lose offsite power most of us won't have too long to fret over it.

That and nobody will know what to do with no TV or phones or internet......

IT will be neighborhoods and communities gathering whatever supplies they have and finding a way to survive until things can be fixed or we can fix them....

Then the Military swoops in and rounds everybody up to live in "camps" that have power and fresh water.

THAT IS HOW THEY GET US THERE !

They are stocking food and supplies.....If your children are hungry and starving would you go with the army if they promised you food and shelter and electricity ?

Then , they say for your own good that you can't leave.......

They tell us that our own houses are not safe to live in...

Yet people lived on their own for the first 2 centuries of our countries existence....


just one scenario of how it could go down.

The Popular Mechanics article is correct. The bill HR 5026 basically got shelved. But reading the text below, we still wouldn't have enough time to "harden" our system against solar EMP's because the wait list for these transformers is 3 years.

Better safe than ... The Senate needs to pass a version of HR 5026 to implement protective measures against solar EMP which could take out much of the U.S. electrical grid for possibly as long as three years. The following is based on an article on www.huffingtonpost.com... Solar EMP blasts the size of those that occurred in 1859 and 1921 would today result in large-scale blackouts lasting for months or years. A repeat of these blasts would see the copper windings and leads of the 350 or so of the highest voltage transformers in the United States melt and burn out. These transformers connect nearly one third of the entire U.S. power grid. Transformers weigh over 100 tons apiece and usually cannot be repaired in the field, and because of their size they cannot be flown in from overseas factories where they are made. In fact, most transformers damaged by space "weather" incidents cannot be repaired at all, and need to replaced with new units. Currently, the worldwide waiting list for transformers is about three years, and about half of those made fail in test or in service. It turns out that the grid can be protected from solar EMP devastation by outfitting it with surge suppressors, much like the ones that protect our computers at home. Read more: www.journaltimes.com...

This is a 2010 article.

reply to post by Gridrebel

The steam from nuclear reactors core powers the cooling pumps. Nuclear power plants have diesel generators (to operate control systems) in case of power loss. Presumably there would be enough fuel on site to enable a safe shutdown.

reply to post by AuntB

There is no such thing as a "solar EMP". That's either ignorance or intentional fear mongering. A geomagnetic storm resembles the "heave" stage of an EMP but other than that...no.

Originally posted by Gridrebel

Originally posted by KaiserSoze
I wouldn't worry too much, if all of our nuclear plants lose offsite power most of us won't have too long to fret over it.

WOW...Did not EVEN think about that.

Yup, (sigh) we'll all be screwed.

With the state-of-the-art SDO Solar Dynamics Observatory up there giving us all

20/20 vision, we should have at least an 18 hour heads up.

It won't take long for the professionals at NASA to make the phone call to the

White House. " It's on the way and it's going to be a direct hit.'

The president could immediately order all nuclear reactors to shutdown.

Start the cool down process for all reactors before the CME even gets here.

--------
I hope they installed some sort of shielding for the back up generators out there

by the Palo Verde Nuclear Power Plant. I would like that one to be around for

another 30 years.

Sheets of copper draped over the back-up generator enclosures? I hope they do

something. Who is in charge out there?

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by KaiserSoze

 

The tsunami knocked out the back up generators.

I was in the U.S. Navy. They should have placed the back up generators in a

waterproof enclosure with watertight hatches.

It looks like they cut corners and installed the back up generators in a sprayproof

enclosure. Also, if you look at the topography of the area with Google Earth

it would have been a good idea to locate the back up generators up on the hill

and out of harms way.

Hindsight is 20/20.

I absolutely agree the backup generators should have been in a much safer location. Losing off site and backup power was a devastating blow. My point was that they were in trouble before the tsunami ever hit and knocked out the backup power.

A radiation alarm went off at Tokyo Electric Power Co.’s Fukushima nuclear power plant before the tsunami hit on March 11, suggesting that contrary to earlier assumptions the reactors were damaged by the earthquake that spawned the wall of water.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by AuntB

 

There is no such thing as a "solar EMP". That's either ignorance or intentional fear mongering. A geomagnetic storm resembles the "heave" stage of an EMP but other than that...no.

edit on 2/4/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)

You are very correct that there is not a solar EMP but a solar flare/storm can have the same type pulse effect as a nuclear EMP. Thus I think that is why many articles seem to combine the two. I have read enough of your post to know that you are a science guru. Whether it is fear mongering or the MSM trying to get the general public to understand the general cause and effect, I can only guess.

reply to post by AuntB

No. Neither a solar flare nor a CME can have the same effect as the E1 or E2 pulse. As I say, there is some resemblence to the E3 heave.

The MSM uses the term "solar EMP" out of ignorance. It is typical of what they do with anything resembling an attempt at a scientific explanation of anything. They always screw it up and it does not help the public understand anything. It adds to the confusion, leading people to believe that a geomagnetic storm can damage their electronics and automobiles.

reply to post by KaiserSoze


Yes, the Fukushima Power Plant received a 1 - 2 punch.

Earthquake + Tsunami = Disaster

It's sad it all could have been prevented.

If i was an engineer standing on the shore of Japan, i'm sure i would have made the

observation "Hey, that sure is a big fault you have right off the coast."

"It's a good bet that will create a huge earthquake and tsunami someday."

"Hmmm.....lets put the back up generators up on that hill over there and out
of harms way just to be safe."

reply to post by Eurisko2012

"I read there about 860 active satellites in orbit.

If half of them fail then put new and improved satellites/spacecraft in orbit to replace them.

For every problem there is a solution."

So I suppose you think that everyone is going to jump right in and fix them there sattelites. Our Government is 15 trillion in the hole and may barely have the ability to help companies restore power around the country. The event will probably rerout all funds to helping people and the money to replace satellites will be nonexistant. Big corporations will see that their survival in the future will depend on their helping restore the food supplies and electrical systems. Those who don't help with necessities won't have any future customers. Only a fool would think otherwise. I, and millions of others would show support for life to those who helped and boycot those who put their moneys towards projects that didn't help. If Our government extends priority to these satelites when people are suffering, the people will see this and get rid of all the ones controling these things. NASA will have no funding and the military will be busy here on the ground keeping the peace. These are real life scenarios and they are not pipe dreams. Governments that do not take the interest of the citizens into account during disasters don't survive long afterwards. There are more than 860 some satelites in orbit, We don't have the true numbers available to us, our military will not leave out all that information and neither will Russia and China. Our Military has necessary spares in reserve and ready to go (if they are smart). Same with the other governments around the world.

Chances are slim that there will be a super flare. Being prepared for disaster is smart though. About a one month rotating food pantry is wise. Same with having a small generator for the fridge, one that uses little gas. I'm still not sure what currents can do to the shelf life of canned goods. Never know if that plastic liner in them is good or bad. I get groundcurrents around here during thunderstorms. Most people don't experience that sort of thing. I have any ammo I own in Ammo boxes in case lightning were to strike. I can tell when there is high electricity in the air, The High Pressure sodium floodlight starts to glow on the porch. That's a simple tester and it was only 30 bucks. Severe thunderstorms can create havoc and are a lot more of a serious threat than flares. Flares can cause unusual weather to occur though and I often wonder about the hissing of the northern lights. Where is the energy of that hiss going from the tails. Is that enough to cause you're TV to fail.

reply to post by rickymouse


If you read the Popular Mechanics article it appears we have a safe place to go for

electrical power. -- Canada ! --

Maybe they will throw a long extension cord across the border for a reasonable fee.

Of course, they will rub it in. You should have thought ahead!

reply to post by Eurisko2012
If they give us that extension cord, they will refer to us as power hungry Americans. I guess they already do so what's the difference

This really has nothing to do with the superstorm but it has to do with the effects of groundcurrents. I notice on a site I go to that they see an increase in ground currents measured in Norway durring solar storms. Wondering how we interact with them has been an interest to me. Bad or good, we interact with electrical currents somehow every day. We interact with sounds and air currents which have an effect on our bodies. I see cures for depression in walking and swimming at the beach. Walking in the woods also helps calm people. Here is a pretty good site, easy to understand anyway. It may have been posted here before, who knows. I wouldn't get exited about groundcurrents but it's always good to be aware of these things and how they effect our personalities. Different people have different tolerances also. We do share similarities with other creatures of this world. www.feb.se...

reply to post by LucidDreamer85


LucidDreamer - The good news is that "they" will indeed be stockpiling food ... the bad news is that the food they will be stockpiling is your and my food reserves, taken out of our homes, at least in the USA. Read all about it in the Presidential Executive Order of March 16, 2012:

www.whitehouse.gov...

Eurisko2012 - I agree with you that TEPCO should have put emergency and/or back-up equipment "up on the hill" at the Fukushima Daiichi site. The only problem with that is that the first thing TEPCO did in constructing that site was to remove the hill that had always been there before, in order to be able to build on flat land.

Originally posted by Uphill
reply to post by LucidDreamer85

 

LucidDreamer - The good news is that "they" will indeed be stockpiling food ... the bad news is that the food they will be stockpiling is your and my food reserves, taken out of our homes, at least in the USA. Read all about it in the Presidential Executive Order of March 16, 2012:

www.whitehouse.gov...

Eurisko2012 - I agree with you that TEPCO should have put emergency and/or back-up equipment "up on the hill" at the Fukushima Daiichi site. The only problem with that is that the first thing TEPCO did in constructing that site was to remove the hill that had always been there before, in order to be able to build on flat land.

Another option: leave the diesel generators where they are and just - upgrade -

the enclosures to - US Navy Watertight Integrity - level.

The wave would wash over and then drain back into the ocean.

Then start the diesel generators.