Argentinians protest arrival of Prince Williams on Malvinas

Originally posted by oghamxx

The Monroe doctrine, 1823, essentially said the US would not allow any NEW colonization in the western hemisphere nor interference with existing countries. In 1870 it was amended to forbid the TRANSFER of a colony to another country. I do not know if any of this would apply to the Falklands.

Rather ironically, the USA was in no position to enforce the Monroe doctrine and needed the British to do it for them.

Because the U.S. lacked both a credible navy and army at the time, the doctrine was largely disregarded internationally.

However, the Doctrine met with tacit British approval, and the Royal Navy mostly enforced it tacitly, as part of the wider Pax Britannica, which enforced the neutrality of the seas.

Wikipedia - Monroe Doctrine

Originally posted by oghamxx
I have read that the reason Roosevelt gave to Congress for our entry into WW2 Europe was the Monroe.

No reason was needed. Hitler declared war on the USA 4 days after Pearl Harbor. The USA had no option than to declare war back.

Before that, much of the US, while having sympathy for the UK, showed little inclination to become activiely involved in the war in Europe.

Most people should read that again.

Four days after Pearl Harbor, the US had declared war on Japan but not on Germany. On the 11th of December, Germany and Italy decalred war on the USA.

The USA declared war back.

1941: Germany and Italy declare war on US

7 Dec 1941 - Japan attacks Pearl Harbor
8 Dec 1941 - US declares war on Japan
11 Dec 1941 - Germany & Italy declare war on USA
11 Dec 1941 - USA declares war on Germany & Italy

Does anybody know of a better site about the last clash than
www.naval-history.net...

Originally posted by oghamxx
reply to post by ollncasino

 

Can you supply the date and form (treaty?) of the Spanish renouncing their claim?

You are right enough. Spain didn't reliquish sovreignty.

I foolishly repeated a claim by another poster without checking it.

My bad.

reply to post by ollncasino


Interesting. Like most people I had thought the US entry in to the war was simultaneous against Japan and Germany.

It was worth firing up ATS this morning

As an Indian, some amount of hatred naturally comes in my blood for the british.All the wealth they have isn't of their own and you have to look at their natural resources to confirm that.
They destroyed my country and killed lacs of innocent people for hundreds of years.
In my mind, Britishers are the greatest murderers of all times and you have to look at the African and Asian countries to see their horrific works.
While people in these countries starve and die of poverty, they feel smug with our money and further ridicule us as third world countries.
Learn your history and you will know who you are.
I wonder if britishers are too ashamed of reading their history as there was an article in the daily mail about decreasing number of history students in your country.

reply to post by JakiusFogg

Finally to add to that. All those who actually know people that fought in the Falklands say AYE

AYE

Repeated several times.

reply to post by ollncasino

All very true.

I have not re-read them today but the Greenland/Monroe issue dates to April 1941.

www.mtholyoke.edu...

www.wordsthatkill.net...

I am not sure about where I have read, many years ago, about Roosevelt conveying such to Congress.

Originally posted by deepankarm
As an Indian, some amount of hatred naturally comes in my blood for the british.All the wealth they have isn't of their own and you have to look at their natural resources to confirm that.
They destroyed my country and killed lacs of innocent people for hundreds of years.
In my mind, Britishers are the greatest murderers of all times and you have to look at the African and Asian countries to see their horrific works.
While people in these countries starve and die of poverty, they feel smug with our money and further ridicule us as third world countries.
Learn your history and you will know who you are.
I wonder if britishers are too ashamed of reading their history as there was an article in the daily mail about decreasing number of history students in your country.

I've been to your country. Maybe you should sort out your caste system first? It's a Hindu thing right? Hindu's were around a lot longer than before us British ever made an appearance. Millions of people in poverty, whilst your higher castes live in palaces and trample over the 'untouchables'.

Endless wars with muslims / hindu's / sikh's and other religions who all wanted a part of Delhi?

But yes, blame the British.

Originally posted by deepankarm
As an Indian, some amount of hatred naturally comes in my blood for the british.All the wealth they have isn't of their own and you have to look at their natural resources to confirm that.
They destroyed my country and killed lacs of innocent people for hundreds of years.
In my mind, Britishers are the greatest murderers of all times and you have to look at the African and Asian countries to see their horrific works.
While people in these countries starve and die of poverty, they feel smug with our money and further ridicule us as third world countries.
Learn your history and you will know who you are.
I wonder if britishers are too ashamed of reading their history as there was an article in the daily mail about decreasing number of history students in your country.

Most British people alive today weren't involved in the colonial era. They weren't alive then.

I suspect you weren't alive then either.

So why do you let this issue consume you ?

The British Empire had a very chequered history; no point in pretending otherwise. But here's the irony: a number of posters are attempting to gain the moral high ground by deriding the Empire for trampling all over people's rights — with the express intention of promoting the annexation of territory inhabited by a population who fervently wish to remain British!

Originally posted by morf991

Originally posted by staticarium
These Argies are just asking for us to crush them again. What a sickening people.

Quotes like this make me pissed. Have you ever been in Argentina? Do you even know were that is?

Guess what......... England is Imperialistic. And I would most certainly head over to Argentina to help them if another war erupts against "the British".

Thats Argentinian land..... Very much far removed from English "sovereignty".

Please show your sources showing Argentina's right to occupy the land?

If Argentina try to take the Falklands again they will be in for a huge surprise, they obviously haven't learned from there mistakes in the past. All the protesters are doing are pushing there own citizens into a war that will cost hundreds of lives and will embarrass the country again.

Originally posted by deepankarm
As an Indian, some amount of hatred naturally comes in my blood for the british.All the wealth they have isn't of their own and you have to look at their natural resources to confirm that.
They destroyed my country and killed lacs of innocent people for hundreds of years.
In my mind, Britishers are the greatest murderers of all times and you have to look at the African and Asian countries to see their horrific works.
While people in these countries starve and die of poverty, they feel smug with our money and further ridicule us as third world countries.
Learn your history and you will know who you are.
I wonder if britishers are too ashamed of reading their history as there was an article in the daily mail about decreasing number of history students in your country.

You are aware that although British overseas occupation had it's downfalls and actually killed many people, we did establish the Indian trading company which boosted India's economy. if you read the news recently you would know that India has more stable economy than the UK at the moment, so why don't you stop trying to point blame away from yourselves and help your own citizens.

People can claim poverty and look at the lack of outside aid provided, but your own people are the ones who have the ability to prevent death and poverty in your OWN lands. British relief in India is one of the larges relief efforts per year around the globe.

reply to post by LeBombDiggity

Most British people alive today weren't involved in the colonial era. They weren't alive then.

I suspect you weren't alive then either.

So why do you let this issue consume you ?

Merci bien Monsieur, you are quite correct....too many of us become obsessed with the past and fail to look to the future.
Alas it consumes some.

Some common ground.

reply to post by SG-17


Not true... There were a few argentinians living on the islands in 1982. Hector gilobert negotiated with the argentinians for the surrender during the initial invasion.

Hunt then sent for one of the local Argentineans, an ex-Argentine Air Force officer called Hector Gilobert who worked for the Argentinean State Air Line LADE (Linea Aerea Del Estado). Chief Secretary Barker had been unable to find him when rounding up other Argentines the day before. It was generally thought by most islanders that Gilobert was in fact an Argentinean intelligence officer and he had supplied the invasion planners with information about NP 8901. Gilobert was soon found and sent to Government House where Hunt asked him to negotiate a cease-fire so that the civilians in Stanley would not be harmed.  Gilobert left Government House, passed though the Argentine lines and delivered Hunt's message by radio to Major General Garcia aboard Santisima Trinidad, who was in overall command of the Malvinas Theatre of Operations.

Originally posted by Freeborn
Merci bien Monsieur, you are quite correct....too many of us become obsessed with the past and fail to look to the future.
Alas it consumes some.

Some common ground.

Behind every living man today stand 30 ghosts.

And while I respect what those previous generations have done for me, the sacrifices and privations they have suffered to make my own life better than theirs, I can't allow what they went through to dominate my own relationships with people from other countries.

That is where I come to this from.

reply to post by ollncasino


This entire Falklands issue seems so trivial. The bottom line, as always, is might makes right.

Example, the US Marines took a Pacific island from the UK in 1936.
www.ihr.org...

You don't know of this invasion because nobody makes a great fuss about it now, in view of the fact of our special relationship with you. There's not just one nation that has a special relationship with you, there's another one. (Every time that Israel is described as America's staunchest ally, Mrs. Thatcher winces!) And the fact that occasionally you've done the dirty on us is neatly overlooked. The fact that you robbed us blind in 1940-41 is overlooked. The fact that back in 1936 President Roosevelt sent U.S. Marines to invade Canton Island, at that time a British possession in the Phoenix Islands in the South Pacific peopled at that time by only one British Resident (capital "R" - British Resident), who had his native wife. (They lived in a grass hut, and they had the Union Jack ran up on a flag pole). Pan Am needed that island for an interim stopping point on its flights down to the South Pacific, and so Roosevelt sent the Marines to throw the British out!

Now, you may find it surprising that there's no reference to this in the British archives. But it is referred to in the catalog of the British Archives. You'll find it says: "American policy: Canton Island. Closed until the 21st century." All pages referring to this painful episode are closed until 2017. So I'm not going to be able to see them! This is a typical example of the gaps you look for. You'll find the papers on them in the American archives, clearly enough -- which is how I first came to find out about this -- in the private papers of Harold Ickes, who was the Secretary of the Interior at that time. This was part of his purview.
_________
Back to our entry in to WW2

But as the war in Europe continued, America's leaders were attempting to get America involved, even though the American people didn't want to become part of it Roosevelt, the presidential candidate, was promising the American people that the Roosevelt administration would remain neutral should he be re-elected. Others knew better. One, for instance, was General Hugh Johnson, who said: "I know of no well informed Washington observer who isn't convinced that, if Mr. Roosevelt is elected (in 1940), he will drag us into war at the first opportunity, and that, if none presents itself, he will make one."

Roosevelt had two opportunities to involve America in World War II: Japan was at war with China, and Germany was at war with Great Britain, France and other countries. Both war zones presented plenty of opportunities to involve the American government in the war, and Roosevelt was quick to seize upon the opportunities presented.

His first opportunity came from the war in the Pacific. It was in August, 1940, that the United States broke the Japanese "purple" war-time code. This gave the American government the ability to read and understand all of their recoverable war-time messages. Machines were manufactured to de-code Japan's messages, and they were sent all over the world, but none was sent to Pearl Harbor.

Roosevelt's public efforts to involve America, while ostensibly remaining neutral, started in August, 1940, when the National Guard was voted into Federal service for one year. This was followed in September by the Selective Service Act, also for one year's duration.

But the key to America's early involvement occurred on September 28, 1940, when Japan, Germany and Italy signed the Tripartite Treaty. This treaty required that any of the three nations had to respond by declaring war should any one of the other three be attacked by any of the Allied nations. This meant that should Japan attack the United States, and the United States responded by declaring war against Japan, it would automatically be at war with the other two nations, Germany and Italy.

Roosevelt now knew that war with Japan meant war with Germany. His problem was solved.

He had made secret commitments to Winston Churchill and the English government to become involved in the war against Germany and he knew that the only way he could fulfill his secret commitments to Churchill to get us into the war, without openly dishonoring his pledges to the American people to keep us out, was by provoking Germany or Japan to attack.
____
Our supplying aircraft while still neutral, via Canadian farmers towing them into Canada from Montana, North Dakota and elsewhere is a 'fun' topic

Originally posted by libertytoall
What is with all the British worship in this thread. Just to set the record straight a number of people were saying the British are the biggest mass murderers of all time. Nobody mentioned the dozens upon dozens of countries the British invaded from Africa to the middle east and on through the US. They killed millions upon millions of Africans, millions upon millions of Muslims in the middle east, and millions upon millions of Native Americans.. Is that "on the list" the England humpers were talking about?

If all of that is true, then messing with us would be a VERY VERY bad idea huh?

PLease grammar

Argentinians

Not that hard to google words.

Good post by the way


Its a bit difficult this situation. I think England shouldnt have never got those islands becaus ethey were Argentine before. Anyways, they got the islands and now most of teh people there are ENglish. Obviously they should be the ones deciding who they want to belong to.

The whole thing is because there si a massive oil well very lose to the area. Its only because of oil not because of territory or sovereignty.

reply to post by deepankarm


lakhs ? they killed hundreds of millions upto 1.8 billlion .As an indian my blood boils at this.British are so arrogant and they talk down to us blah blah .Americans and British are birds of a feather.

Originally posted by staticarium
These Argies are just asking for us to crush them again. What a sickening people.

This right here upsets me greatly. Ok so I dont know if you know your history or not, but the Falkland Islands belong to Argentina, as they are right within the country. The British (during the time they ruled the world) "owned" the Falkland Islands. And there was a great war relatively recently that was fought between the Argentines and British, over this land. The Argentines were fighting for their country back, and the British, well they were fighting only because they wanted to flex their muscle really.

Now lets think about this a little more, since all you "redcoats" are so eager to point out flaws in other countries, especially America. the US, has its hand and its troops all over in places it doesnt belong, especially the middle east. Now, the UK is claiming some other countries piece of land, and being in a place it doesn't belong, that doesn't seem too far off from what the Americans are doing and have done, sure its a bit different, but not too far off. So the Falkland Islands war was recent enough to where fallen Argentine soldiers family members still have it fresh in their memory. So how would you like it, seeing it from their perspective?

They are not a sickening people, they are a very well cultured and civilized society. They are referred to as the "Europeans of Latin America." Your comment makes me feel like your referring to them as a subhuman species. (maybe I take it personally because my family is from Argentina) but a society that is fighting for its land, and many have died in that cause, is usually considered the "good guy". And then the Prince comes in military gear, that seems very insulting, so yes I can understand the upset.

I am sure I will get some flames for this, but this is another example to all of you out there that think the UK is better than the US or any other country. I get very tired of our UK population throwing insults at other countries, especially the US, and this comment about Argentina threw me over the edge. (though I dont know if this guy I quoted is British)

And to the people going on about riots etc, the UK has a ton more riots. I am tired of the British attitude that the world is uncultured and savage and "sickening" if they are not like them. You know I am definitely on the Argentines side on this one, and the UK is the "bad guy" for sure. If it was another war, my bet would be on the British though, however if other British suppressed countries fought back, then you would be the ones getting "crushed" kind of like how the Scottish crushed you guys for their independence. ; )