15 year old teen with Autism shot and killed by police., page 4
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 13 times


reply posted on 3-2-2012 @ 08:50 AM by nixie_nox
Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by areyouserious2010


Not just two people.. two cops. Trained for situations exactly like this. Knowing who was involved. Not a cartel member, terrorist, or serial killer, but an autistic kid.


If I am arrested, I will use that as an excuse, well at least I am not a terrorist, so let me go.


Besides, serial killers, terrorists and cartel members are usually handled by the FBI. Leaving the police to local matters.

And yes cops are trained for this, someone comes at you with a knife, you may need to use lethal force.


If the parents didn't feel threatened by the kid and thought he was harmless, they wouldn't of called the police.



reply posted on 3-2-2012 @ 08:54 AM by Starchild23
Alright, guys...instead of screaming murder, look at this as yet another case of miscommunication. And before you start to argue, remember that you've all been guilty of this before.

Someone, whoever it was, neglected to mention the boy was autistic, or the officers would have known. Had the officers known (and it isn't their fault they didn't know) they might have reacted differently.

Since they didn't know the boy was autistic, anyone else with a butter knife can do serious damage. If a wind can jam a straw through a tree, it isn't too farfetched to think a butter knife can be lodged in the jugular, or shoved under the ribs. And since there has apparently been a history of incidents at the home, they will be extra wary. Not to mention one of the officers suffered injury by that same butter knife, at the hand of that same boy. How many people do you see here saying, "How DARE he hurt an officer of the law?"

In fact, I'm a little irritated that the OP chose to point out the kid was 15 years old and autistic in the thread title, not the fact that he was clearly violent, had a history of police incidents, and actually SLASHED a police officer. That, in my mind, would justify the entire event.

This was a matter of the person calling 911 neglecting to point out, "Oh, this boy is autistic. He's a little out of control, but just talk him down." Nope, they didn't say that. So when police show up expecting a thug with experience in fighting, you can't blame them for shooting an armed suspect who appears to be dangerous. And it is, right now, an opportunity for people to get mad at armed forces because they are one example of societal control in a life where nothing mortal is controlled, and so they need someone to blame and get mad at.

Moral of the story: if the kid is autistic, try to remember to mention it. The police don't know everything, and they have specific guidelines regarding how to proceed, especially if innocent civilians are involved. And this kid OBVIOUSLY had a history, so I don't blame the cops one bit. If someone came at me with a knife, no matter what the situation was, you can bet I'd pull the trigger too.

There's police brutality, and then there's taking your job seriously. Don't be too quick to point fingers.

edit on CFridayam585859f59America/Chicago03 by Starchild23 because: (no reason given)


reply posted on 3-2-2012 @ 11:21 AM by olliemc84
CBS Chicago Story



Powell-Watts was screaming, livid, and inconsolable after her son was killed. She was furious that officers used deadly force against her son this time, rather than subduing him with a stun gun.

“They shot my son,” she yelled as officers as she was blocked from entering the Calumet City police station. “Every last one of you know my son has autism.”

Gilmore said police had been called to the home 10 times since 2010 to deal with the boy. Stephon’s father called police again Wednesday morning after the teen had become aggressive.


Again, using the police as a parenting tool is completely despicable. Do they not have case workers or a program for this child where the PARENTS are taught how to deal with their child?

"Hey honey, I have an idea. Next time Stephon acts up lets call the cops so they can shoot him with a taser."


Calumet City Police Chief Edward Gilmore said the boy cut a police officer through his shirt sleeve with a “kitchen knife.”

“I think they did everything they possibly could to avoid this,” Gilmore said. “It’s unfortunate that we had to get to this situation.”


Really?? Everything they could? What about a taser, pepper spray, or a baton? Instead of shooting him in the head.

From Daily Mail


Watts’ mother Danelene Powell-Watts told myfoxchicago.com that police had tased him in past altercations.
‘They murdered my son, shot him twice in the head and decided to kill him,’ Mrs Powell-Watts told the station.



Gilmore said a year ago, all of the officers in the department went through a three-day autism awareness program to learn how to handle calls involving people with autism.


Well that program seemed to work....


reply posted on 3-2-2012 @ 11:28 AM by olliemc84
reply to post by areyouserious2010




Trigger happy is a term normally used when an excessive amount of ammunition is used or when a shot is fired too hastily.

It seems in this situation, "trigger happy" would not accurately describe the actions of the police.

The officers only fired one shot each, totaling two shots. Two shots is no where near excessive under the circumstances. If the officers fired a total of 24 rounds, then yes, but two shots? No.


Well why would the officers need to fire 24 rounds when two rounds to the head is sufficient? They were trigger happy when
a) they (the entire station, apparently) knew the situation they were walking into. Free range time with their tasers.
and
b) officers are trained in hand to hand combat and are trained with the use of a baton or pepper spray.


reply posted on 3-2-2012 @ 11:37 AM by olliemc84
Originally posted by paxnatus
reply to post by olliemc84


I have a 15 year old autistic son, this could have been my child.......I am stunned and heart broken
by this story.

I understand you have a 5 year old son? It is easy to say your son wouldn't do this or blame the parents as irresponsible, until you find yourself in their shoes. Dealing with a 5 year old autistic boy, your methods
would work. However, at 15, there is quite a difference.

I've. got. 10 years on you and a 15 yr. old teen is a whole new ballgame. You have the disability plus hormones, plus puberty, plus peer pressure, plus an inability to understand and regulate emotion, equals a time bomb.
Never say never! I used to make that mistake often. Do not be so quick to judge the parents.

No, the police are to blame no one else!! They were ill equipped to handle the situatuon! There should be a full investigation and they should be brought up on charges.

This kid was terrified and should in no way be held responsible for what happened.

Pax
edit on 2/3/2012 by paxnatus because: (no reason given)


I have a 3 year old boy. My cousin has a 5 year old that suffers from autism. Without getting into details all I can say is she needs all the help she can get so I go over and make sure that that child is getting as much love and attention that I could provide. He has been placed in a special program where he goes to school 5 days a week and it seems to be working wonders. I understand that every autism case is different and some kids act out in their own ways, but to have to call the police 10 times? I think it is pretty god damn ridiculous.

Where was the department of social services on this one? My son broke his leg a few months back from jumping off his bed and I had to sit through 5 interviews with CPS just so they could rule out child abuse. Why are they not involved with intervening in this child's behavior and his parents complete lack of responsibility or understanding for their child's disorder.

I never claimed that the child was responsible for this. I said that the parents were responsible for this first and foremost for using the police as a crutch. What did they expect would eventually happen? This kid would either be locked up or, unfortunately, killed.


reply posted on 3-2-2012 @ 12:32 PM by CaptainNemo
Originally posted by olliemc84
CBS Chicago Story

Really?? Everything they could? What about a taser, pepper spray, or a baton? Instead of shooting him in the head.


Gilmore said a year ago, all of the officers in the department went through a three-day autism awareness program to learn how to handle calls involving people with autism.


Well that program seemed to work....


You know they only use batons when you're on the ground.!

And woah, so this department had the training AND the tools to deal with with the situation appropriately.


reply posted on 3-2-2012 @ 11:05 PM by areyouserious2010
reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


Not just two people.. two cops.

Police officers are people too. People who are subject to the same physiological response during a stress reaction. People who are subject to the same fear that you yourself would feel if put in this situation.
Trained for situations exactly like this.

Yes and they followed that training exactly. When you are confronted with deadly force, the only option is deadly force.
Knowing who was involved.

What evidence do you have that these specific officers knew exactly who the child was and what his diagnosis was at the time of the incident? None. Just because the police HAVE responded to a residence before does not mean that ALL police officers are familiar with the people that live there.
Not a cartel member, terrorist, or serial killer, but an autistic kid.

All of which have the potential to kill. The only difference is that the mentally ill or unstable seldom follow any reasonable line of through when engaging in violence while a cartel member, terrorist or serial killer could recognize that violence would only get them killed in a situation like this.
I know all about the 21 foot rule.

No. You obviously dont.
People tried to use the same poor argument when the cop murdered the wood carver.

This situation has no comparison to the other. Stop attempting to draw dotted lines to other incidents just so you can appear to know what you are talking about. If you had any clue, you would realize that there is no comparison.
I do know what I am talking about, what I know and what you think I know are two completely different things.

Again, no. Obviously you do not.



reply posted on 3-2-2012 @ 11:09 PM by areyouserious2010
reply to post by HallamFoe


Why call the police in to deal with a kid with autism? I don't get it. Why didn't they call a specialist/doctor?

Because doctors and specialists will not make house calls in this type of situation. Especially if the person is violent. Doctors and specialists have no desire or training to confront a violent person.


reply posted on 3-2-2012 @ 11:22 PM by areyouserious2010
reply to post by olliemc84


Well why would the officers need to fire 24 rounds when two rounds to the head is sufficient? They were trigger happy when
a) they (the entire station, apparently) knew the situation they were walking into.

How is this apparent? Because the Mother said so? Again, just because the police have been to the house before does not mean that EVERY officer knew what was going on.

AND even if they did, the 15 year old autistic child lunged at the officers and CUT one of them with the knife. So it does not matter either way.
b) officers are trained in hand to hand combat and are trained with the use of a baton or pepper spray.

Again, officers are trained to use hand to hand, baton and pepper spray when confronted with force but NOT confronted with lethal force. Police are trained to use lethal force when confronted with lethal force. Lunging at a police officer with a butter knife is considered lethal force.


reply posted on 28-4-2012 @ 07:19 AM by happyhomemaker29
reply to post by CaptainNemo



The problem is, social services told the family to call the cops everytime he got out of control. They said this would help get him services. I have an autistic child. She also gets severely out of control. And like this family, social services told us to call the cops whenever she did. We'd call the cops and they would tell us, "What do you want us to do, we can't arrest her." We take her to the hospital, or we would Baker act her (involuntary commit), and the hospital would tell us that the ER is not the place to bring your child with behavioral problems. Rinse, repeat. Now she's in PA with her father and she attacked a 4th grade boy with down syndrome for sitting in her imaginary friends' chair. She's in the psych ward with adult men and women (mixed ward), and they're about to send her home because "It's only temporary solution". The school said if she attacked someone again, she'll become ward of the state. He can't keep her home because he works, he has no one to watch her, we can't find her a residential placement, so he'll be forced to quit his job to look after her, and then lose his apartment because he can't pay rent. I'm telling you right now, as a parent who has been through this for 16 years, and is going through this. There are very little services now because of budget cuts. There is very little or non at all training for officers to deal with this situation, so this is what we're going to keep seeing. I'm afraid one day it'll be my daughter in that article. I'm scared to death for her because I know where she needs to be, I just can't get her there.


reply posted on 28-4-2012 @ 07:26 AM by happyhomemaker29
Originally posted by olliemc84
Originally posted by kn0wh0w
reply to post by olliemc84



Having said that, why would the father be fighting with his autistic child to the point where the boy had a knife in his hands? Having been around a 5 year old with autism and seeing the fits that he can go through, the best thing to do in that situation is to try to talk him down or isolate him in a room where you know that he cant hurt himself. For the father to be having an extended fight with his handicapped son to the point where the police have to be called is IMHO irresponsible.


you know there are lots of different types of Autism right?
each demanding their own approach.

a whole lot of things could've spraked this situation.
seen it happen quite a few times at my internship.

(i work with autistic (young) adults)


Yes, I do understand.

Maybe the parents of this kid are not responsible enough human beings to be taking care of a special needs child. For the police to have to be called 10 times is pretty ridiculous. Maybe this kid should have been taken from his parents and put in a safer environment where educated people could attempt to help him, not fight with him. Who knows? He may still be alive.

When you use the police at a parenting tool, something is wrong. Terribly wrong.




I can understand what the parents went through. We were told numerous times that she needed to be in therapeutic foster care. For those that don't know it's people who are trained to deal with this situation, usually that is. The state couldn't find anyone willing to take my daughter because of her violent outbursts. The foster homes were worried she'd hurt someone there . (Me too honestly) We couldn't put her in a residential center because none of them wanted her. Either they only took boys, or they don't take IQ's lower than 70 (she's 50 -moderately retarded), or they didn't take kids with violence issues. Because she was beating the hell out of me almost daily the state wanted to place her somewhere, for my safety. But they told us even if they took her, they'd have the same problem -- there was nowhere to put her. No one wanted to deal with it. Even those trained didn't want to deal with it. And when we finally found a place willing to take her, they didn't have any beds available. I'm sure these parents were having a similar problem. If you have a special needs child, the state will help you with services when their young and elementary to middle school age, after that, their attitude is, "You're on your own. Good luck!"


reply posted on 28-4-2012 @ 07:39 AM by happyhomemaker29
Originally posted by yourboycal2
reply to post by CaptainNemo




When two officers went downstairs, police say the boy lunged at the officers with a knife. The boy's father, who witnessed it, says it was only a butter knife.


we should define "lunged" , regardless if it was a butter knife or not . Butter knife still does damage.



Do you think the shooting was justifiable.? The police department had knowledge of the boys handicap, and previously have dealt with the same situation, using tasers to subdue him.



previous knowledge ! can't justify it then . it was murder . Excessive force . Im curious though at the lunged part still , how heat of the moment it really was , or there was plenty of room to pull something else off.


Yea no taser on the officer either , many fails resulting from bad prep , bad communication , bad trainiing , series of bad events

resulting in the death of someone , without knowing what really happened hard to call it murder. But def, wrong.




“The lead officer did not have a taser. As he came down the stairs he was immediately confronted by the offender , who slashed his arm.”


consistently going off his meds , abusing his parents , what a bad history!

whats the procedure of locking up tools , objects that a special needs child should be kept away from ?




I keep meds hidden and knives. Scissors as well. Sometimes though, when they come at you, it's like a beast you never met and it is vicious! You feel like a whole linebacker team is coming at you all at once and you can't stop them. When they get going they are stronger than anything you've ever seen or can control.


reply posted on 28-4-2012 @ 07:58 AM by happyhomemaker29
Originally posted by paxnatus
reply to post by olliemc84


I have a 15 year old autistic son, this could have been my child.......I am stunned and heart broken
by this story.

I understand you have a 5 year old son? It is easy to say your son wouldn't do this or blame the parents as irresponsible, until you find yourself in their shoes. Dealing with a 5 year old autistic boy, your methods
would work. However, at 15, there is quite a difference.

I've. got. 10 years on you and a 15 yr. old teen is a whole new ballgame. You have the disability plus hormones, plus puberty, plus peer pressure, plus an inability to understand and regulate emotion, equals a time bomb.
Never say never! I used to make that mistake often. Do not be so quick to judge the parents.

No, the police are to blame no one else!! They were ill equipped to handle the situatuon! There should be a full investigation and they should be brought up on charges.

This kid was terrified and should in no way be held responsible for what happened.

Pax
edit on 2/3/2012 by paxnatus because: (no reason given)



I know what you mean. I have a 16 year with autism. They're easier to control when they're younger but once hormones are added, meds being messed with, not understanding what's going on and not being able to verbalize it, it all adds to a perfect storm. This is a heartbreaking situation. I pray to God I never go through, but I'm scared I will because I cannot get my daughter help. I cannot get her to a facility because almost all facilities only take boys. I guess in their eyes more boys than girls have autism. The truth is, it doesn't matter the sex of the child, it matters the situation they're in. There needs to be facilities for girls as well. Something has to be done. We can't just abandon them. We can't. Their lives, and ours are at stake.


reply posted on 28-4-2012 @ 08:22 AM by happyhomemaker29
Originally posted by areyouserious2010
reply to post by paxnatus



Please do not let me disagreeing with you overshadow my empathy towards your situation.

The parents are to blame. Maybe not after the first time the police were called to help them get their child under control, no matter what the mental handicap, but after the 10th time the police had to respond to the house because the child was out of control, measures needed to be taken. The parents failed to take those measures.

These measures needed to be taken by the parents, way way way before it got to this point. The parents should have consulted a doctor, a social worker or a mental health worker way before the 10th time the police needed to be called. The child should have been placed or steps should have been taken to move the child into an environment where the explosive behavior can be controlled, the child can be subdued and the child does not have access to anything that can be used as a weapon.


We do. There is a WIDE network, but the problem is an autistic child a hot potato. Remember the game. One potato, two potato....No one wants to get caught holding the potato (taking care of the child or the situation). Parents are extremely overwhelmed. There used to be respite, where the parents can drop the child off for a couple of nights and get a break. States are cutting that. Social workers tell you to call the police. The police are ill-equipped to handle the situation at hand. You're told if they refuse their meds call the police with an ambulance and bring the child to the hospital to take them. They refuse to transport the child if the child refuses to go. But, if they don't take their meds, they become exceedingly out of control. If you take them to the ER to have them take their meds, the ER gets p*ssed at you for bringing the child in for a non-emergency. But this is what you are told to do! They have mobile crises you can call to help calm the child down, but they can't come out if the child is violent. For liability reasons. I have been in this state for going on 9 months and I STIIL can't find a facility willing to take my daughter on. As I said in an earlier post, most facilities are for boys only, or they don't take mental handicap or developmental disabilities, or they don't take kids out of control. But you NEED a facility to help get the child under control. You can't dope them till they're a zombie. What. What would you have us parents do? I'm not arguing with you, I'm just trying to let you know how it really works for us parents. You're told all this help is out there, yet no one wants to provide it. Where are the state funds going??? It's certainly not going to help these kids. It's not like we can just drop them at the nearest church doorstep and say, "You're on your own kid." Even with me in NC and my daughter in PA with her father, I feel a tremendous responsibility to her, to get her the help she needs. It just isn't there. Not for all of those children anyway.

Police are given basic training on how to deal with mentally handicapped or disturbed people. That is it. They are not doctors, psychologists or social workers. When a mentally handicapped individual threatens their life, the situation has to be handled accordingly.



I agree, they're not psychologists, doctors or social workers. But these providers tell us parents to call the police. They get mad if we bring them to the hospital. Because now they have to deal with it. And when you call the police and the police bring them in, you still get in trouble with the doctor. Even though you did EXACTLY what they told you do. My personal experience, some of these doctors don't care. They don't. My daughter was in the ER back in Oct. and the doctor was releasing her. He hadn't signed the papers yet, so she was still a patient. She got mad that they were releasing her. She thought she could live there. When these child are in their world and they have something set in their minds, there's no changing it. She started beating me, right in front of the doctor. After seeing her continually hit on me and having security pull her off, he DISCHARGED her and told me to take her to the parking lot. He said if she continued to beat on me, call 911 from the parking lot and have officers respond to the PARKING LOT OF THE HOSPITAL!! Once they responded have her brought back in and they'll readmit her! Well then why in God's name did you discharge her???!! THIS, this is what we parents deal with.
edit on 4/28/2012 by happyhomemaker29 because: (no reason given)
edit on 4/28/2012 by happyhomemaker29 because: (no reason given)
edit on 4/28/2012 by happyhomemaker29 because: (no reason given)

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