FDA's New Claim: "Your Body Is a Drug—and We Have the Authority to Regulate It"

reply to post by MegaMind

That early data on life expectancy is skewed because infant mortality is averaged in and infant mortality used to be higher. Take out early deaths and there is little difference.

And what led to the decline in infant mortality, do you suppose?

Regulation that's too heavy-handed might also help push more of the industry and related technology to southeast Asia. Goverment may be good for business, but not necessarily here in the U.S. It's not like current medical procedure prices have already made it worth flying over there for many people as it is. (I remember something in the news not too long ago where people have taken "medical vacations" for procedures that would cost at least 10x as much in the U.S. And that includes flight, lodging, services, etc.)

Just another thing to keep in mind.

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by MegaMind

 

That early data on life expectancy is skewed because infant mortality is averaged in and infant mortality used to be higher. Take out early deaths and there is little difference.

And what led to the decline in infant mortality, do you suppose?

don't kid yourself ... unfortunately for the first time since 1958 infant mortality is on the rise.

note this is about the US ...
U.S. Babies Die at Higher Rate

note the US is at #34 ...
List of countries by infant mortality rate

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by MegaMind

 

the FDA is a loving caring organization that works with loving caring big pharma that only wants to help people get better.

Where do I say that? Would you please explain to me why any government would want its labor force to be weak, debilitated, inefficient, under-productive and subject to random absentee-ism? Most totalitarian governments ram healthy living down its population's collective throat. Mandatory calisthenics, draconian anti-drug and alcohol laws, organized sports. Why would a government want its population to be unfit for conscription at a moment's notice?

Most totalitarian governments kill their population ...

Russia under Stalin ..

China under Mao ...

Germany under Hitler ...

Cambodia under Khmer Rouge

combined they killed over 100 million people conservatively (many worked to death)

but that really has no bearing here as we are talking about corporations profiting on poor health ...

Or the FDA claiming your stem cells are drugs so they can't be used in therapy not approved by them.

Besides, the FDA is run for and by Big Pharma. These corporations really run the show. Kind of like the Treasury being run by Goldman Sachs Executives or members of the Federal Reserve. In case you haven't figured it out yet corporations run our government and our government runs for corporations.

reply to post by pauljs75

Regulation that's too heavy-handed might also help push more of the industry and related technology to southeast Asia. Goverment may be good for business, but not necessarily here in the U.S. It's not like current medical procedure prices have already made it worth flying over there for many people as it is. (I remember something in the news not too long ago where people have taken "medical vacations" for procedures that would cost at least 10x as much in the U.S. And that includes flight, lodging, services, etc.)

As a matter of fact, "medical tourism" has been booming in the past decade. I actually have a good friend who gets all her dental work done in Thailand. It's not just over-regulation, however. Medical costs in the US are exorbitant due to a number of factors, including the escalating cost of malpractice insurance, the large number of uninsured who use emergency room visits because they cannot afford routine medical care and, of course, the need for pharmaceutical companies to charge outrageous prices for their products to recoup R&D costs before their patents expire. For Megamind's benefit, I will say it explicitly: Big Pharma is in it for the money... so are "Alternative Medicine" practitioners. Otherwise they would give it away for free, wouldn't they?

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by pauljs75

 

For Megamind's benefit, I will say it explicitly: Big Pharma is in it for the money... so are "Alternative Medicine" practitioners. Otherwise they would give it away for free, wouldn't they?

Actually that's not a bad idea. Take profit out of treating people's health. Take away the incentive for corruption. Not bad at all ...

Scientific research could be carried out by non profits as many are now ...

This is something I have been saying for a long time ...

actually there are already many not-for-profit hospitals and practices - they are not, however, free. Indeed that is impossible isn't it?

But there is a considerable difference between making as much money as you can and making enough to sustain the practice.

Originally posted by DJW001
Medical costs in the US are exorbitant due to a number of factors... the need for pharmaceutical companies to charge outrageous prices for their products to recoup R&D costs before their patents expire.

At first glance I thought that read "...recoup R&D costs before their patients expire." Giving that a moment of thought I believe that would be correct also.

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by crankyoldman

 

Do we know if the patients receiving this treatment understand that there have not been properly controlled studies? Is it fair to charge people to be human guinea pigs?

A friend of mine was a driver for a set of pharmaceutical research companies in town, they did the research for the Merk's of the pill pushing world so they could distance themselves from lawsuits. People with specific ailments were picked up, given a pro forma questionnaire, a few tests, and then subjected to all manner of testing for their ailment - the usual double blind. Many were helped with their ailment, but when the tests were over - the were totally SOL. They were paid a few bucks for their effort, and some would up way worse after it was over when the treatments were harmful and never brought to market, and when the treatments worked and once taken away the depression overwhelmed them - human guinea pigs via the FDA approved method of bringing a product to market.

The folks using longevity treatments such as this, do know all about what is going on. In fact, the subculture of longevity treatments is FAR more documented then Merk's vioxx, as I know a few in the field and their knowledge is huge - no guinea pig testing is allowed. Again, I point to the same treatment that several athletes have had to travel to the horror filled, quack filled, ass-backwards world of Germany to receive.

In some places, health is an integrated part of life, something of interest to all and something in which many people are free to try new things. In the US, thanks in large part to the FDA, the body's health is a profit center, a profit center that conveniently has the advantage of keeping the enslaved masses ill and addicted to the "treatments" created and approved to market for profit. You might want to read a book by a woman who worked as a big pharma sales person - horrifying. You might also want to check out "confessions of a medical heretic."

The FDA is too big, to arcane, to concerned with commerce - only commerce, to be held up as a safety system for the poor, stupid masses who need big brother to regulate everything their body is and does. 100k people die a year due to prescription errors, errors! 250k die to medical screw-ups and the like. All of those deaths are from items or services approved by the FDA as fit for commerce and profit and dispensed or administered by people who the FDA approved - the gold star, as official vendors of such products or services.

reply to post by MegaMind

Like I said I was unfamiliar with what you had so laugh it up!

When someone mentions something I know little about - I generally contact a search engine, and in twenty minutes, could test out of a college course on the subject.

Part of my "condition" (or the traits I exhibit in common with it). Unlike some, I've managed to acquire the ability to apply my fervor for understanding to a diverse array of topics (under the guise of interest in being better than someone else... it works...). I have an excellent memory and can read through something once and remember it nearly word-for-word a decade later. I'm the proverbial fly on the wall, as I'm the next best thing to a video and audio recorder.

So the populace as a whole isn't any worse health wise than they were 50 years ago ...

This is going to be very difficult to substantiate, one way or the other. The medical field has grown exponentially over the past several decades. Antibiotics have only really been around since the aftermath of World War I and the build-up to World War II. "Germ theory" was still regarded much as a theory, back then - there was still plenty of university discussion involving 'bad air' and other types of theories.

Wide-spread testing and diagnosis for illnesses simply didn't exist and has been an ongoing thing. Further, new illnesses are constantly being identified and screened for.

How many people died of AIDS before it was actually identified? Hard to say. Nobody was officially afflicted with it until it had been identified and screenings began. Even then - early screening methods were not necessarily the most effective, the most wide-spread, or even practical to use in wide-spread screening.

The same goes with virtually all illnesses and diseases. Making the claim that we are more/less healthy as a population based on medical records is looking through a prism that skews the interpretation of the data.

Drug companies care about you. Food makers care about you. The FDA cares about you.

Remember how we talked about defense mechanisms?

Where have I said this? By all means - quote where I have said such things, or even expressed something that could be interpreted to mean that I believe "they" care about me?

Drug companies care about discovering new illnesses, ways to screen for them, and finding drugs to treat them while raising awareness to get people to badger the doctor about some medication they saw on TV. People can use drugs in responsible treatment regimens to become more healthy - but your health is your responsibility.

Food companies care about producing food that people want to eat. People don't always want to eat what is healthy... or even safe (such as raw milk, copious amounts of alcohol mixed with enough caffeine to send a bull into catatonic shock, etc). Some people do - and markets will develop to cater to those people, as will third-party commissions that assign ratings and are trusted by people.

The FDA cares about coming up with new ways to increase the footprint of the agency to increase funding and revenue from fines. A few of their ground-pounders may genuinely care about food safety - but most of the regulations have little effect on the safety of the food, these days.

You tend to either have businesses operating in a safe and responsible manner - or just in complete disregard for common sense (much less industry standard precautions).

Hi all,
I will be commenting no further on the thread..
wanted to say thank you for all the comments/contribution.

All I can say at this point, and will leave you with this quote.
"Absolute power corrupts absolutely"

and imho, this is where it is ALL heading for it seems to be everywhere you look.
I promise I do try to find the good in things, and there still are some, but the good is getting harder and harder to find these days.

Grant you, yes, I jumped on this hard. for I have already formed an opinion and feel or know what they want to do to all of us.

reply to post by Aim64C


Write a book ... tell someone who cares

reply to post by MegaMind

Write a book ... tell someone who cares

Already on it.

However, you seem to be under the impression that I believe you care. It's quite obvious to anyone that you don't. You simply want to go about, preaching to the choir. Get confronted by any real audience, and you have to fall back on ad-hominem.

Quite disappointing, to be honest. You do not live up to your screen-name's sake.

reply to post by SeekerLou


You have to understand that this is the end goal. As the a new world always grows from the old world. Hence why Communist's/Progressives "crash the system" plan, to bring about a Marxist revolution is complete BS.

As the only thing that will emerge from such Chaos is Chaos. It might look orderly, but at it's heart will beat pure Chaos. And that "controlled" chaos is more commonly known as fascism.

The seed of fascism was planted a little bit ago. Now they are adding miracle grow to it. You have to remember that in Fascism there will be winners and losers. And the corporate losers are quiet literally going to lose their heads.

So a lot of the losers are going to be doing outrageous things to justify the whole "losing their heads part".

The beauty of it is, it enables the fascist government complete control over said industry while looking like the "good guy's".

Right now Energy, Pharmaceutical's, Finance, Media and Agriculture have enough blood on their hands(so anything more will be planned over kill).

You have to realize the majority of the main players are nothing more then useful idiots who think they are really in the know.

reply to post by Aim64C


How bout a little less ego-driven babbling and a little more facts there. People like you are what made me lose faith in this bloody website. If you don't think there is anything going on beyond what you were taught in whatever bull# factory you attended, there are plenty of other forums out there for you to defile. Kindly direct yourself to one of them so I don't have to stumble on your ignorance again.

reply to post by xXxinfidelxXx

How bout a little less ego-driven babbling and a little more facts there.

I'm sorry, there's no YouTube video that can source common sense reasoning. You have to be able to apply basic reading comprehension skills for that.

People like you are what made me lose faith in this bloody website.

The sentiment is quite mutual, I assure you.

If you don't think there is anything going on beyond what you were taught in whatever bull# factory you attended, there are plenty of other forums out there for you to defile.

You see, here's the problem.

You are scared. With all of the chaos and wrong-doing in the world, it scares you #less to think that there simply is no control over any of it. Thus, you create a bogey man that hides behind every budgeting error, government inquiry, or corporate scandal. It's much more comforting, and even enabling, to chalk up the seemingly random chaos of the world up to a single malevolent entity.

Not the Devil. How the hell do you do anything about that guy? ... No - the "government," "Illuminati," or some other scape-goat gets assigned credit for the wrong-doings. It's just physical enough to rally against, but metaphysical enough to be omnipresent; no longer subject to common logic and reason.

Thus, when I put forth the argument that the FDA is no longer necessary, but criticize the idea that food manufacturers and the FDA are deliberately "poisoning our food" - you all go off the deep end and have no idea how to even read my posts, much less respond to them with anything regarding reasoning.

Kindly direct yourself to one of them so I don't have to stumble on your ignorance again.

Request denied.

Though, you really haven't done much to further your side of the argument, now have you?

Perhaps you could clarify your standpoint a little. Exactly what about my criticism is ignorant?

All you've done so far is assert. You've done little in terms of answering some very basic questions. How do you know cancer is a new thing to plague humanity? Mental disorders? Dietary disorders? ... The list goes on.

Sure - you can claim incidence of obesity is on the rise, but you can't really shove that off as reckless abandon by food companies and marketers. They aren't responsible for determining what weight is appropriate for you. I can only imagine the discussion that would appear on ATS when a headline consisting of: "Restaurant refused service to morbidly obese customer" appeared in the list of forum topics.

People would be demanding an anti-discrimination law within the hour. If we let restaurants refuse service to people out of concern for their future health... they just might refuse service to them parallelograms in wheel-chairs (what a paraplegic co-worker of mine likes to call it... "Them damned parallelograms!" - an awesome guy who just loves to # with your head using his twisted sense of humor).

So... I really don't understand what it is you hope to argue, here; as even in victory, you sow the seeds of defeat.

reply to post by Aim64C


My god, do you actually read what you type. If you did, I don't think that you would feel so dignified if you did. The amount of assumption in all of your posts defies all reasonable logic. Open your eyes, do a little research (and yes that involves practicing what you preach and going to the library), pry your ass off the couch and quit being such a prick. Also, if you came up to me and started talking to me like that to my face, you would be sowing the seeds for a brutal little slice of hell. Watch your words buddy.

reply to post by Aim64C


Also, on the assumption (see isn't it annoying when people do that) that you are just gonna think whatever you wanna think, and that I have to spell it out for you as if you were a five year old. The FDA is like any other organization, in that it's employees are susceptible to bribery. One thing that has been proven time and time again, is that bribery is one of the biggest markets these days. Therefore, you take into consideration companies like Monsanto and Kraft, who have made their lack of ethics painfully obvious, and then the fact that in the States, you worship money above all else. Seriously, put two and two together. I also never claimed that it was all put in place to make us unhealthy. Simply put, scarcity and illness create profits. Profits are, seemingly, the only driving force left in America. The facts are on my side, pandejo. Also, quit putting words in the mouths of others, it makes you look quite stupid. Uber fail.

The FDA sits on testing and approving medicine and medical devices. Plus we know of bad stuff they approve too.

I just had the 2nd generation pacemaker that is MRI compatible unit in Dec 2011. It was being used in Europe since 2009, and was only approved for use here in 2010. The 3rd generation pacemaker has been used in Europe for several years in several million people. The FDA has not set a date to start "test trials" and will do so not for the foreseeable future.

It will mostly likely take 5-10 years to approve this device. When they decided to replace mine, I looked for all the information I could find. A pacemaker is good for 5-7 years depending on how much it is used. I need a MRI so I got the new one.

Not about stem cells and who owns them, but just a little information on the FDA time frame. I think they are mine That is my story and I am sticking to it.

reply to post by DJW001


I'd also like to point out that for maximum profits we need people to get ill so we can "manage" their illness for the longest time possible. In other words they only stay healthy/live longer if they take our meds .... it's a wonderful world....

reply to post by xXxinfidelxXx

My god, do you actually read what you type.

Why would you ask such a silly question? I considered it SOP to read one's own posts.

If you did, I don't think that you would feel so dignified if you did.

I enjoy a facetious expression of my God complex - much to the frustration of your own.

Which makes it even more fun.

The amount of assumption in all of your posts defies all reasonable logic.

What assumptions? I have expressed logical conclusions and provided the train of logic utilized in their formulation.

Open your eyes, do a little research (and yes that involves practicing what you preach and going to the library),

Once again - way ahead of you.

pry your ass off the couch and quit being such a prick.

I'm one of those types that has difficulty concentrating when not in motion - I pace, bounce, and fidget. As for my tone... that's a different issue, entirely. I'm talking to you the way I am for a reason that suits my own interests at the time. Elaborating further would only confuse you.

Also, if you came up to me and started talking to me like that to my face, you would be sowing the seeds for a brutal little slice of hell. Watch your words buddy.

Talk is cheap. I, of all people, know that quite well. I'll put it to you this way: I'm trained well enough to know not to make promises of physical altercation. That satisfies what is known as "intent" and can leave you in very hot water.

Suffice to say - I'm not really all that concerned about threats on my physical person. I'm more than capable of taking care of myself, and have demonstrated this capability on more than a few occasions.

Also, on the assumption (see isn't it annoying when people do that) that you are just gonna think whatever you wanna think, and that I have to spell it out for you as if you were a five year old.

No, it really isn't all that annoying. Why would I be annoyed by an average intellect performing in an average manner and according to all projections of his/her behavior?

I only get annoyed and frustrated when I have expectations of you, and you fail to meet them.

The FDA is like any other organization, in that it's employees are susceptible to bribery. One thing that has been proven time and time again, is that bribery is one of the biggest markets these days.

Where have I stood up and defended the FDA?

I believe I listed a very similar reason under the arguments for why the FDA is an out-dated concept. It wasn't bribery per-se, but the fact that non-compliance can often be more cost-effective (simply pay the fines) than compliance. The FDA goes after these targets as a reliable source of revenue. Further, infractions by smaller businesses are often more cost-effective to pay as a fine rather than argue the validity in a court of law (and then pay the fine if not cleared).

Therefore, you take into consideration companies like Monsanto and Kraft, who have made their lack of ethics painfully obvious,

Would you care to elaborate upon this point?

and then the fact that in the States, you worship money above all else.

I would disagree - but I'm not really sure how one would substantiate that claim either way.

Seriously, put two and two together.

I'm coming up with 22.

Simply put, scarcity and illness create profits.

Depends upon who you are, really. Illness creates demand for healthcare services - but that detracts from the man-hour effectiveness of manufacturing, information, and service industries. Scarcity simply decreases supply; which makes entering the supply side of the economy a much more lucrative proposition (which is why much more expensive forms of oil drilling are being used - it is now worth the extra cost due to the limited supply relative to the demand).

Profits are, seemingly, the only driving force left in America.

Not too keen on economics, are you?

The facts are on my side, pandejo.

What facts would those be? You've listed one logical point and a few assertions with circular reasoning backing their validity.

Also, quit putting words in the mouths of others, it makes you look quite stupid.

You're just angry because I took them out of your mouth and put them back in before you got the chance to sound cool.

I do find it ironic that you criticize me on "putting words into others mouths" when you continually hammer against the FDA like an bugged path-finding algorithm; in spite of never, once, advocating the existence or continuation of the FDA.

Uber fail.

My confusion in regards to your post pales in comparison to yours, it would seem.