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Survival of the Unfittest and the UK Benefits System

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posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 02:23 PM
how about the biggest welfare case in the u.k.; the royal family, they produce nothing, but leech millions annually from britain and the commonwealth.

before anybody attacks a struggling family, they should man up and start looking at real problems.

posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 02:36 PM
reply to post by randomname

I would refer you to the first page of this thread. The Royle family has already been dealt with. Two wrongs don't make a right.

posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 02:44 PM
here is how I would change the benefit system in our failing UK...


start giving them vouchers for food.

no cash just food.

you can't spend the voucher on cigarettes, alcohol, Sky, mobile phone etc etc.

cut off the supply of booze and fags and you will soon see them looking for work

posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 03:04 PM
reply to post by DaveNorris

Since I dont trust the accuracy of the official figures id have to spend a couple hourssearching the net, when I get a couple hours free to do this then ill get back to u, might be waiting a while tho mate

A ha! I'm glad you noticed. £25k is the official average salary (probably higher by now) but when I last took a straw poll the people I talked to
at the thought that was the case. As you say many appear to be getting by at the £16k mark. That makes their plight compared to Raymond & Co all the worse.

Trouble is they use the bogus average salary stats to set inflation, pay increases etc. Don't you love how they keep putting depreciating electronic items onto the government shopping list when calculating our rates of inflation? They then use the bogus inflation rate to determine pension increases etc....round and round. But it's all a pack of lies.

posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 04:01 PM
For every person like that mentioned in the op there's 10000 genuine struggling people.

It's strange how when the bbc mention these stories they forget about the genuine cases.

If that person mentioned in the op were forced into a job he would be depriving someone who REALY WANTS A JOB of the oppertunity because the unemployed MASSIVELY outnumber the vacancies available.

The Blatently Biased Corporation control the sheeple with these biased stories.

posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 04:05 PM
But if you cut benefits "single UK mothers will be RAPED!" Write to your MP and tell them not to allow us to be RAPED

Please join Single Mother’s Self Defence in writing to your MP to oppose the welfare reform bill in tomorrow’s vote. Poverty makes us more vulnerable to RAPE and domestic violence, stopping women, children and other abuse victims from leaving partners as they are financially dependent on them.

The introduction of universal credit, which in many cases will mean that benefits are paid to a couple as a whole, the cuts to child benefit and a reduction in the benefits paid to individuals, will make women more open to abuse as partners control our money.

Public Service Announcement brought to you by Slut Walk

edit on 2-2-2012 by greenovni because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 04:17 PM
reply to post by greenovni
I think if you look at any place where poverty exists women and children ARE exposed to more violence and sexual abuse. So think before you start to laugh.

posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 04:47 PM
I'm laughing at the website who is trying to use RAPE as a way to keep other people's money without working,

What I find funny is that they call themselves SLUT WALK and THEN have the galls to complain about domestic violence and rape. (Considering they call themselves SLUTS)

edit on 2-2-2012 by greenovni because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 04:51 PM
reply to post by christina-66

It is exactly the same here in the US with no cap that I am aware of. You get another check for every kid...thus giving incentive. You get more food stamps...more everything with each additional kid...and if you are one like me who brings up the Darwinism thing, we are labeled as heartless uncaring....the only way the left wants to "fix" it is to demand more taxes from the rich, who then in turn lay off workers...thus perpetuating the cycle. They also get free college, housing, heat and now cellphones...god knows what else they get that I don't know about. What incentive is there to work? Those of us born with the self respect to work are becoming fewer.

posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 04:55 PM
reply to post by Maslo

It is so nice to agree with you on something, Maslo!!

posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 04:58 PM
Social Darwinism was not valid over race; why in God's name would anybody think that it is valid in economics?

Let's flip your friend's coin over, and examine your typical rich guy's son: how many good, honest working people do 3 generations of him put out of jobs and onto those benefits? How many politicians do 3 generations of him buy that make laws that make it harder for those folks to survive? How many people in 3 generations of him are passed over for promotions because he had a shoe-in with one of daddy's friends?

In a real "the law of the jungle" situation, rich boy would be the first one on the menu.

The logic is absurd. It's like putting everybody in the desert, you fencing off 9/10 of the oasis for yourself, and then declaring "survival of the fittest".
edit on 2-2-2012 by AnIntellectualRedneck because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 05:12 PM
reply to post by greenovni

On 24th January 2011, a Toronto policeman told a group of law students that in order to avoid being raped ‘women should avoid dressing like sluts’.

Thats included in the About link. Not the greatest label but does that mean what they are saying is wrong. Statistics would seem to say no.

Poverty causes:
Abuse both sexual and Physical

I see little to laugh at to be honest.

posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 05:46 PM
It is indeed generational ,

as a single father working part time i attended a parenting class recently - apart from myself the rest of the group was made up of single mothers aged 25 to 30 - the girl next to me had 5 kids to 4 different fathers - I knew this girls family from way back - her mother also had 5 kids to 3 different fathers , neither this girl or her mother have ever worked , and as far as I am aware - not one of the absent fathers has ever worked either.

Just this one girl and her kids must be a massive drain on the welfare state , and the rest of the group were more or less the same - the sense of entitlement is astounding " why shouldnt the nash keep me n me kids " - decked out in tawdry jewellry , expensive trainers and clinically obese - every shopping centre in the UK is teeming with young women like this - also they tend to all have iphones or blackberries while I have to make do with the cheap n cheerful LG phone I paid £ 20 for 3 years ago .

holding down a low paying job purely for self respect and dignity is a concept thats hard to hold on to in the face of such wide spread ignorance, selfishness and a eagerness to breed purely to add another dependent to a child benefit claim form.

BTW - in the UK the term 'nash' means welfare state - a left over from when unemployment benefit was called national assistance.

posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 06:01 PM
reply to post by christina-66

Did anyone see that channel 4 programme about long term unemployed and disabled? First the 'disabled' 19 year old drunkenly hurt his back after a fall whilst on holiday in Greece and refuses NHS care saying he is only supposed to use his Greek doctor! Eeeerm ok makes no sense as he doesn't travel there just used this doctor during his healing process, not like the UK can not match the level of care and his claim that his doctor knows the details better is a feeble excuse, back injuries are notoriously hard to prove if they are being faked but this gets so obvious it's infuriating!

He claims that he can not sit down upright (in an office chair) for more than 30 mins although a sofa is comfortable for him!) he also can not stand up for more than 30 mins. His mum gets him to do the house work which includes hoovering the floor of the entire house. Now hoovering he is slightly bent over for at least 30 mins, I would think that this would hurt anyone with such a serious back injury. He complains how he can not work and how he has no social life anymore, his life basically has been ruined by this awful drunken mistake!

He is sent to be assessed by the doctor to see if he is still entitled to his disability benefits. Despite being 19 he goes in with his Mum....shouldn't be alowed. He is asked to stand and now he can not stand unaided, his mum having to prop him up! WTF! He was fine the rest of the programme up to now (and after it turns out) he has to try and walk and when standing and moving literally 3 steps using I joke not a ZIMMERRAME! he is graoning and even yelping out in agony. He tells the doctor about his Greek doctor and how he wont see a UK hospital as he trusts his doctor all the way in Greece despite never seeing him, this means there are no notes referring to a doctors opinion, this is so obviously to protect him from being found out yet this doctor either doesn't care or can do nothing. He breaths rapidly like this is traumatic and looks like he's guna cry clinging for dear life on to his mother who no doubt feels no shame for how blatent they are both being on tv/

He literally is fine aftet this and is talking about how bad it is whilst hoovering and washing up with ease, standing is no issue, he uses the zimmerframe inside after the doctors, but he is fine the rest of the time he is shown moving freely, I can't believe how dumb they are, sad thing is I bet they didn't even loose their false claim. Not only is it immoral, but that money should be helping people with real disabilities

It gets worse though/. Next are the typical young mainly chavy long term unemployed on a course they must attend for a couple hours a day focused on getting a job. Now to claim jobseekers allowance which is the benefit used when you are unemployed and actively seeking a job you must be looking for work and accept work if it is available and realistic to your abilities. So for these poorly educated lads and ladies that means any job they can get. Yet when asked why they don't apply to Mcdonalds of KFC etc they say thigns like 'noooo way, I don't wana do that, thats **** its embarrassing to do that job!'.

For one it's a lot more respectable than being unemployed especially long term! In fact it's so much more respectable to do any entry level job at all that it makes them look pathetic. Secondly refusing to take on work that is available should result in benefits being stopped! Yet this isn't mentioned and they are not told fine then you refuse to work? Then you can not get JOBSEEKERS! This info should be passed on ater the course to get their benefits cut right away. Not a majority, but a good amount of people claiming these benefits earn more money through crime as well. Many young people are content with this money they get for showing up to one meeting and pretending that they jobseek and petty crime to get a bit more cash. Many are content though with living on a pathetic £40 a week. How can anyone do this for such a long time and not be so embarressed that they get a job ASAP?!?!?

I have been on jobseekers and for me it was awful, but I was so glad there were measures to help me while I was between jobs. When I went to uno in Guildford I found my 1st jon in the first bar I went into n had a job the next week, After that the second add I applied to gave me the job. There were jobs everywhere there yet I lived in the YMCA before I moved to halls and these ^^^^ had the council paying for their rooms and JSA to give them a bit of money and they did not ever jobseek. They drunk cheap cider, smoked weed and caused trouble if you complained about the music blaing all night. As unemployed they could not be kicked out incase they went homeless, me on the other hand earning £6 per hour and paying £220 per week for my rubbish room out of my own pocket was kicked out when half a day late with rent....

posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 06:02 PM
I Feel like these benefits are great for people, but they are so widely abused that they need to be re-distributed. I personally would solve this issue by starting at say, $20,000 per year, then the next year 18k, then 16k, and so on. (Note the numbers would probably change, but you get the idea). This would help people in the short term and incline them to find a job sooner, as opposed to living off other hard workers money.

posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 06:50 PM
The whole structure is a farce.

And the condescending attitude of those employed in Job Centres don't help.....but to be fair no wonder they couldn't give a toss when you see some of the people they have to deal with day in day out.

Once when I was inbetween pubs I applied for Job Seekers Allowance, there was no suitable pubs around and I didn't fancy working away from home at the time, and I had to go in to the Job Centre to proceed with my claim.
Having ran my own pubs, worked doors, ran betting shops, worked in factories at every level up to Production Manager blah, blah, blah I am a pretty used to mixing with people from all walks of life and have seen some things in my time.
But I was horrified at the attitude of some of the claimants who were just downright aggressive and threatening to staff.
It was a non-stop torrent of abuse.

When it came to my turn to be seen I was treat with complete and utter indifference by the staff who were unresponsive to any enquieries I made which were out of the norm and was looked at with astonishment when I asked about re-training.

Eventually I walked out without completing my claim, I was in a fortunate enough position at the time that I could afford about a month or so off before getting another pub.

The point is there were no jobs on offer, no opportunities for training and everyone just fed off each other's negativity and aggression.
A thoroughly unsavoury experience.

36 years after Johnny first sang it there really is No Future UK!
edit on 2/2/12 by Freeborn because: grammar etc

posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 07:06 PM
i totally agree with the OP too... this country is very flawed in it's everything at the moment

as a single mother all my life i knew i had to instill ambition in my kids, i worked 6 days a week and now my kids are 22 and 25 and neither of them even know how to sign on the dole. but it's taken it's toll too... i don't have a cheap council house to live in, i live in a privately rented house with no eligibility to get a council house, i don't have a pension, i have no savings to speak of and i wonder to myself how i'm going to afford to survive once i can no longer work, which i envisage doing to the day i kick the bucket.

if i were on benefits i'd have a home for life cheaply, a pension, and a variety of luxuries that as a working person i simply can't afford... i have a decent computer because i need it for work but that's about it.. no flat screen tv, no sky, my mobile phone is about 6 years old, i have no credit cards...

i wonder to myself if i've done the right thing sometimes... my kids will always have ambition and drive and the will to work, but will it actually get them anywhere

i also think that people in prison and on benefits should be doing SOMETHING for the public good with their time, grow food for the community, various charity works, cleaning rivers, whatever, but something rather than nothing.
edit on 2-2-2012 by ladyteeny because: left off a bit

posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 07:24 PM
I'm guessing this is not a black and white issue, I'm guessing all monies received in benefits go back into the economy through one way or another ! Also if we take a family with four children, then when those four children grow up and go to work, it would probably work out that through their working life they would have paid back in taxes more than they had received.

Then looking further how much would their Grandchildren pay back in too !.

All in all I'm pretty sure that in good times when there is plenty of jobs about the benefits system works in favour of the country.

posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 08:34 PM
This has been a long time coming.

I once stayed at my aunt and uncles house in a lower socio-economic area because it was close to an internship I was completing.

I was absolutely astounded at my cousins teenage friends (some at school others had finished or dropped out of school several years ago). I would ask them "So what do you want to do once you finish school?" Only to get the replies "I'll just go on the dole".

I'd ask the others "What do you do with yourself?" to get the reply "What ever I want I'm on the dole".

I'd ask them why they would do that when they can study hard get a good job and earn money to buy the things they want in life.

Their responses were "Why should I go to work when I get money anyway from Centrelink?"
"My parents are on the dole so I will be too"

One girl even said that her whole family consisting of Mum, Dad, three older sisters (two of whom had given birth in their teenage years), herself and two younger brothers were all on welfare. I asked her what her parents did for work and she said that they don't have work because they're on centrelink payments.

posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 08:37 PM

Originally posted by thegoatboy
here is how I would change the benefit system in our failing UK...


start giving them vouchers for food.

no cash just food.

you can't spend the voucher on cigarettes, alcohol, Sky, mobile phone etc etc.

cut off the supply of booze and fags and you will soon see them looking for work

How do you buy clothes for an interview on food vouchers? Or transport money to get to and from a job? What about your child's clothing?

Why should the poor not be allowed a drink or a cigarette?

edit on 2-2-2012 by mr-lizard because: (no reason given)

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