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Survival of the Unfittest and the UK Benefits System

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posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 03:56 AM
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It is a UK govt. policy to cap the state benefits system so that any family on benefits will receive no more than £26,000 per annum. On the BBC website one family with 5 children (currently in receipt of some £30,284.80) is used as an example of how that policy would impact the relevant families.

BBC News - Raymond & Co.

The family spokesman (father and stepfather Raymond) sets out their weekly outgoings which include £20 for his own Friday night out with his mates, £15 for Sky (How else is he supposed to occupy himself when he's at home all day?), £32 for mobile phones for himself, wife and each of the teenage children, 200 cigarettes and one large pouch of rolling tobacco (equating to a minimum of £74 per week on tobacco alone) oh....and 24 cans of lager - every week. (The proposed cap on benefits would reduce his current weekly income by £82.40)

Raymond, who is trained as an educational software designer, claims the work 'dried up' in 2001 . Nevertheless he and his wife decided they should have their 5th child between them after 6 years on benefits (the child is now 5 yrs old).

Raymond and his family's net benefits of circa £30k actually equates to a working household income of £42,000 gross of tax and NI. Raymond then claims that if his family's benefits are capped to the £26k proposed that they would be choosing between 'heating or eating'.......or eating or smoking, drinking, phoning or satellite TV.

Some years ago a friend of mine who had served in the British army in the first Gulf War was pensioned off for health reasons and found himself living in one of our larger council estates. At the time he observed that Darwin's theory of survival of the fittest was being turned on it's head. His logic was quite clear and Raymond's family certainly appear to confirm his theories.

Quite simply my friend argued that due to the benefits system families who could not actually afford to feed children were breeding excessively. That they failed to instil ambition into their kids. That were they to live while adhering to the laws of nature (of the jungle) alone they would be unable unable to feed their children or themselves and would, by natural selection, simply die out. Instead he said they were outnumbering the rest of us and taking over.

I found this logic extremely harsh until he pointed out how families on benefits with 3 plus children were comparatively common place in the housing estate he found himself in - and that in the apparently 'well to do' private housing families in the main restricted themselves to 2 or fewer children (being all they could afford to pay for).

He further pointed out than in this day and age, in many instances, the benefits families, are part of an intergenerational problem. Their parent/s had never worked - nor their parent's parents. So, chances are, with Raymond's sense of entitlement to Sky, cigarettes, mobile phones and booze, that his 5 kids will grow up with a similar attitude becoming 5 more families to receive £42k gross annually from the State (tax payers).

In 3 generations (if all his children emulate him and his 5 children have five children) the Raymond's of this country could be costing the taxpayer £1,050,000.00 in direct benefits alone (excluding teaching, health, etc.)...ouch!!




posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 04:08 AM
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reply to post by christina-66
 

This benefits system looks a little flawed to me.
Why isn't Raymond put into a occupational retraining program when "there's a total lack of work in his area of expertise."?
What's the plan to put him back into work?



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 04:16 AM
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reply to post by ColCurious
 


You're right, the plan is totally flawed.

What the OP says is true though, it is exactly like that here in the UK.

The feckless, lazy and uneducated are effectively being paid to breed more of their same ilk.


MR



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 04:17 AM
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reply to post by ColCurious
 


There has been no plan to get Raymond back to work....not by him and not by the system.

His wife has a diagnosis of manic depression and anxiety and as such he can probably claim he is the main carer in the family and will not be pressured to evidence job hunting efforts.

For Raymond there has been no INCENTIVE to get back to work. Why should he? He makes more dosh smoking, drinking and watching Sky TV all week. Work? Only mugs work....thinks Raymond smugly.



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 04:22 AM
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reply to post by christina-66
 


now work out how much tax payers money the royal family get for doing bugger all all year, bet its a lot more



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 04:24 AM
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reply to post by DaveNorris
 



now work out how much tax payers money the royal family get for doing bugger all all year, bet its a lot more


I entirely agree - two wrongs don't make a right tho'.



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 04:30 AM
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reply to post by christina-66
 


i agree but a benefit system is essential, some people wouldnt survive without it



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 04:31 AM
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I live on one of those larger council estates. I see what is happening and can say it's quite true. Near my house is a row of shops, also there is a post office and a charity building that helps people back into work and training etc. Each week there is massive lines of people waiting to pick up their benefit money from the post office. In the nearly 3 years of living here i've never seen a single person in the charity building. Luckily i've not been out of work and needed to go there myself but everyone else seems to be content living on other peoples hard work.



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 04:31 AM
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Originally posted by christina-66
reply to post by ColCurious
 

There has been no plan to get Raymond back to work....not by him and not by the system.

I'm sorry but that's just stupid. How is this supposed to work? That's not even a real system!
I don't know how to put it more politely.

This nonesense is one of the reasons why some people bash real social security systems.
edit on 2-2-2012 by ColCurious because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 04:33 AM
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reply to post by christina-66
 


It is crazy how we have got into this situation and there does need to be reforms. I guess my concern is for those families who live in London where the rent prices are so high. I mean there really is a potential for huge numbers of families to lose their homes and move further out of the city into smaller and more cramped conditions. Many of the the people will be workers in London doing low paid jobs like cleaning or other minimum wage work.

edit on 2-2-2012 by woodwardjnr because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 04:36 AM
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reply to post by DaveNorris
 


I don't think anyone's talking about getting rid of the benefits system - not me anyway. But I do agree with capping benefits per household. Why should I pay for Raymond's lack of sense of responsibility.

I love children - would love to have had more than the two I did but couldn't afford to - end of. And most of the rest of what appears to Raymond's essentials I wouldn't dream of spending my hard earned cash on. Remember Raymond claims he will be forced to 'heat or eat' but in reality if he lost the smokes, the booze, the Sky and the mobiles he would save £140 a WEEK!!!!



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 04:40 AM
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reply to post by woodwardjnr
 


If that happens they'll simply have to move out. Those dependant on benefits (even tho working even) will have to leave. Those low paying employers will be forced to increase their pay to a living wage. Then, due to the out-flux) there's the potential for landlords to stop being able to charge exorbitant rents due to a reduction in demand - more homes on the market - and a general reduction in house prices in the capital. Could work out better for everyone in the long run.



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 04:40 AM
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Originally posted by DaveNorris
reply to post by christina-66
 


now work out how much tax payers money the royal family get for doing bugger all all year, bet its a lot more






What planet are you on?

www.bbc.co.uk...

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Why not do some basic (very basic) research before spouting complete and utter rubbish.....?


MR



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 04:45 AM
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reply to post by Marlborough Red
 


yeah, lets beleive the MSM without question, they wouldnt lie, they have no agendas

edit on 2/2/2012 by DaveNorris because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 04:45 AM
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reply to post by Marlborough Red
 


more royal family propaganda. First example of british moochers and freeloaders is the royal family.The slaves are learning from their royalty masters on how to mooch off the state.



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 04:46 AM
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Benefits systems should be there to survive, not to live on. This is unsustainable, not to mention that it is an insult to those who work and produce something of value. Benefits caps simply make sense.



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 04:49 AM
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reply to post by Maslo
 


i completely agree but this is just one thing that needs to be tackled to sort out the british economy



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 04:52 AM
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Anyone care to read a rational argument why the proposed £290m benefit cap saving will end up costing the government up to £8.34 billion more per year?

speye.wordpress.com...



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 04:52 AM
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reply to post by DaveNorris
 



Rather than try to mock me, how about you come up with some figures backing up what you stated earlier then?


MR



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 04:54 AM
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personally i think its because of people who are outlined in the original post that this country has gone to bollocks

after all if hes making that much purely on benefits and spawning kids for the value hes gonna get
what incentive would he have to even bother trying to work
i dont agree with it personally but i dont run this hole of a country

i know from my own experience of being put on benefits (never wanted to be on them)
after a serious car crash left me with a broken back and broken pelvis
took me quite a few years of physio to get to the point of deciding "ya know what sod this benefit lark i wanna go back to work"

enquired at my local joke shop oops i meant Job Center about looking into retraining for a fork lift licence
got told in not so many words that there not going to help me because i dont have previous experience and it wouldnt be worth the cost for them to bother

after hearing that i decided to sort it myself and shell out the money for the course out of what i could save on benefits

£600 later and in debt still no job but least i got my licence
now im in the postition where i have 2 move out of my house and leave my girlfriend and son to work out of town to make money for us to get off benefit
i have no problem doing that as before i had my accident i`d never been out of work
and i live by the theory of you must go where the work is

the people outlined in this original story make me sick
and contrary to many peoples beliefs there are people like me out there who do not want to be on benefits and never did want to be on them
sadly life has a tendancy to throw obstacles at you and sometimes it changes your life
im using my experience for the positive rather than sit at home bangin out kids 1 after another and bleeding an allready failing system dry

sorry for the rant but the people in that original story make me fume



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