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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
I'm going to take a wild guess, from them purchasing something with money they earned by their own labor?
Originally posted by ProgressiveSlayer
If the system in America fails, it will be because those who would see us institute socialism manipulated the laws and currency of the Country in a way to bring about that end.
You charge that those who would see Free Markets that respect the Individual's sovereignty are psychopaths.
The very definition of psychopathy contradicts this, and in fact charges that the psychopath shows a nearly complete disregard for the rights of others.
I would charge that those at the highest levels attempt to corrupt the current system in hopes of implementing socialism are in sociopaths who see socialism as a conduit with much less resistance to despotism, as I've explained in my earlier posts, and would claim the mantle of the despot for themselves or their ilk.
I in no way charge that this is your agenda, you are likely a very compassionate person who cares about the impoverished and would be willing to give up some or all of your Personal Property Rights to ensure the poor have the basic necessities of life.
Originally posted by TheIrvy
My personal "ethos" is the old law, common law. I believe that a society that was able to embrace that law would thrive. Common law is essentially that you do no harm, to yourself, to others, to the world around you. Cause no loss, to yourself, to others, or to the world around you, and don't cheat, take only what you need, and do so in a sustainable way.
Capitalism breeds secrecy, conspiracy, poverty and death. Our comfortable capitalist lives, full of wonderful technology, ready to go food, comfort and ease only exists because of the suffering of other human beings.
It's only when individuals do the right thing because it is the right thing, instead of what they stand to profit from it, that we can begin to call ourselves civilised.
Originally posted by ImaFungi
is your argument, nothing of value could ever be created unless a large percentage of humans were in poverty and starving
if all humans on the planet were to create a system of equality and prosperity, then nothing ever again would be able to be created, all humans minds wold suddenly become blank, all knowledge lost, all innovation stopped, all people would become equally miserable,.....
How did you get up on that high horse? to me it looks like a high chair...
the elite way of thinking is primitive and savage..
in an equal world community would it be like....the idea of the iphone comes about, they are manufactured without 700% markup or more for profit, and everyone can afford one for 25 bucks? and it is top notch so the company wont need to put a new one out next week that has 1 extra little surprise?
.. it would be easier on all people to cooperate....
you like the challenge though, its cute, its fun,...
i hope you dont think of yourself anything higher then a sly chimp, for none of your virtues align with the potential righteous of man
i hate your spirit
Originally posted by ProgressiveSlayer
reply to post by petrus4
I will agree that Free Markets with a small government structure to guarantee the rights of the Individual against other Individuals, corporations or the government itself is a hypothetical inasmuch as it no longer exists. It was a radical idea when it was founded and worked effectively for a century before the system was hijacked and gamed by those who would trample on the Rights of their fellow man for wealth.
I'm sorry if you feel deflated because you think these are talking points I've been fed my entire life.
You are allowed to have your own in my mind because in it you have the same Freedom and Liberty I do.
Originally posted by ProgressiveSlayer
reply to post by petrus4
Can we agree to the following then?
Capitalism and Socialism are both used by sociopaths to facilitate despotism.
Despotism is bad for all involved except the despot and his "friends".
Every person has the Right to Life, and to spend that Life in pursuit of what that person perceives as Happiness as long as that pursuit does not encroach upon the ability of another Individual to do the same.
Man, excepting the case of the sociopath, has an inherent inclination to compassion for his fellow Man.
Originally posted by DZAG Wright
Now that I have a little more time, let me show the error in so many thinking...
Imagine there is a Heaven or if you prefer a advanced alien society (since this is ATS), do you believe their economy will be Capitalistic? Do you think that in Heaven, you will find it necessary to give God $3 for some bread? If we are being visited by aliens, do the aliens have to worry about making lease payments on the vehicle they arrive here in?
Answering those silly questions made from the top of my head, does it not make it evident how primitive capitalism is? It's a barbaric economic model, buffed up and shined to APPEAR as the best thing since peanut butter! It allows JUST enough citizens to live DECENT lives (and have a DREAM) that the masses will fight for it tooth and nail.
I have sold drugs in the past (yeah this deviates from the conversation) however just because I made a living from it and good money...it did not cause me to lose sight that it harms people!
Even if we don't see it as prominently in America, our capitalism HARMS other countries!
The same way the dope I sold HARMED families I didn't know. The dope I sold caused some little kid to grow up in a home where mom did not keep groceries in the kitchen or the lights on.
Our Capitalism is causing some kid in China to work 12 hours in a sweatshop to produce the Nikes we love.
No socialism isn't designed to take money and resources from those who have it and redistribute it to the poor man! A properly implemented Socialist system, there wouldn't BE any blood sucker to take from! You see THERE...is where the problem begins with the "examples" of previous socialism!
I'm going to propose how socialism can be implemented (others feel free to join) and watch how the demons and others who are psycho will run as if they are vampires shown a cross with Yeshua on it! It will betray what they really are and who they REALLY work for even if they are unaware! Hopefully it will open a few eyes and fatten the ranks, all it takes is swallowing your pride and admitting you've been living a lie.
Originally posted by mc_squared
Evidentally it's genetic: right-wing brains are physically dominated by fear, while "left-wing" thought (whatever that even means any more) is geared towards complexity and problem solving.
Virtually all right-wing arguments are dominated by fear-laced rhetoric - from all their McCarthyist rants about socialism, to their xenophobic views on foreign affairs, to their hypocritically alarmist opinions on supposed enivironmental "alarmism".
It's not exactly reassuring to know this propensity for paranoid yahoo-ism comes straight from the physical make-up of their cranial matter, but I guess it does bring some strange peace of mind to at least know there is a tangible, discernible reason for it - other than just sheer unbelievable stupidity.
Originally posted by Skyfloating
Originally posted by mc_squared
Evidentally it's genetic: right-wing brains are physically dominated by fear, while "left-wing" thought (whatever that even means any more) is geared towards complexity and problem solving.
Hasnt it been the socialists who continually warn us of "TPTB" and evil oppressors?
Another thing: Why do you assume that anyone who disagrees with communism is a right-winger?
Virtually all right-wing arguments are dominated by fear-laced rhetoric - from all their McCarthyist rants about socialism, to their xenophobic views on foreign affairs, to their hypocritically alarmist opinions on supposed enivironmental "alarmism".
Prejudice contains the word "Pre" to indicate judgment before the merits of something are known. In the case of Socialism, which has cost more than 400 Million lives in the 20th Century alone, its not Pre-judice, its Post-judice if I may invent a new word.
It's not exactly reassuring to know this propensity for paranoid yahoo-ism comes straight from the physical make-up of their cranial matter, but I guess it does bring some strange peace of mind to at least know there is a tangible, discernible reason for it - other than just sheer unbelievable stupidity.
Yes of course, we are unbelievably stupid for suggesting that the system which killed 400 Million+ is somehow flawed.
Originally posted by Skyfloating
Socialists perceptual and perpetual distortion is to see others "High" and needing to be "brought down". Hence one of the first thing socialist nations do is murder those who are well educated or have money or otherwise contribute to society. If they are better at anything socialists feel offended and insecure, so they kill them.
the elite way of thinking is primitive and savage..
The murder of the elites in Soviet Russia, in Cuba, in China, in North Korea, in Poland, in the Czech Republic, in Hungary always began with the statement "rich people are primitive and savage!"
Socialists wont understand why its good to pay more than 25 bucks for the iphone as it inspires and motivates you to put in a little more effort to earn the iphone.
China saved its population from another bout of communist mass-starvation by implementing a few capitalistic ideas. One of these was to allow for the advertising of sell-phones, to awaken the desire of millions. The price of the cell phone was just out of reach for most chinese, but by trying to reach for it, they became stronger earners overall.
A collectivist always talks about what ALL people should do.
i hate your spirit
Once you let go of your hatred, you will see the world differently.
Originally posted by Skyfloating
In capitalistic democracies such as Western Europe and America, the greater majority have a decent standard of living. In socialist countries such as the Soviet Union, the majority had a low standard of living. Fact.
I could name 1 Million products that are sold by capitalists that are beneficial to people. Just because you sold stuff that is harmful to people that is no reason to assume that capitalists do the same.
Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
My uncle, alongside many others were captured, and spent 15 years in a Cuban prison where he recieved regular beatings. They dislodged 3 vertebrae in his spine, and crushed one of his testicles from the beatings. Not to mention the broken bones. That uncle died about a year ago.
Originally posted by Tea4One
reply to post by petrus4
Trotsky was an illuminati plant? How so? Can you perhaps link me to something that has this in detail? I'm a fan of Trotsky's theory y'see and wish to read up on it...
Originally posted by ProgressiveSlayer
reply to post by Tea4One
I don't want to misrepresent Petrus4, but the way I took the statement was not these men were necessarily part of or knowingly working with the illuminati, but that the illuminati helped promote them and their ideas as they saw the potential for the abuse of and decent by society into despotism under those ideas.