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Why my mind is closing towards Capitalism

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posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 01:21 AM
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Originally posted by truthRconsequences357
Saul Alinsky would be proud of some of you because this is how he trains his comrades to think.
The Saul Alinsky Flock!

Even Hungarian,felon George Soros has jumped on the Marxist bandwagon after Capitalism made him a billionaire.
Knowing George Soros
edit on 5-2-2012 by truthRconsequences357 because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-2-2012 by truthRconsequences357 because: LO of


Shut up.




posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 02:10 AM
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Here is my biggest problem with Capitalism:

It is inherently prone to corruption.

What I mean by that is - it is fundamentally doomed, by human nature, to lead towards an unjust and immoral system.


Why?

Because think about it: Capitalism is predicated on this principle that individual motivation, i.e. personal "ambition", is what breeds the most successful overall system. The more you want something - the harder you work for it, etc.


But the problem is - in our society unfortunately - the most "ambitious" people are almost always NOT the hardest working.

They are in fact simply the ones who will do anything to get to the top, absent of ethics or empathy towards others. That means they lie, cheat, steal, and collude amongst themselves to get there and squeeze others out.


So Capitalism, held unchecked, naturally leads to a system run by the exact sort of criminals in government and big business we see today (surprise, surprise!).



This doesn't mean that something like Communism is any better - because Communism still has a power structure (the state), and power itself of course tends to corrupt people.

But in Capitalism it's almost like you're stacking the deck with the worst kind of building blocks right from the very start.

They hijack and exploit the system, and pretty soon all the actual hard-working people are nothing more than their personal wage slaves anyway, working hard and fighting each other for what's left of the table scraps.


The answer to this problem though goes beyond any specific "ism". More important are things like education, personal responsibility and freedom of thought - the ability to think critically and independent of outside ideological influences.

This is where the real crux of the problem lies stuck in the mud.



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 02:32 AM
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Originally posted by AwakeinNM
Capitalism:


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


I sorta got a laugh out of this being called the reality of Capitalism...
In the real world, its more like this:


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 02:44 AM
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Originally posted by mc_squared
Here is my biggest problem with Capitalism:

It is inherently prone to corruption.

What I mean by that is - it is fundamentally doomed, by human nature, to lead towards an unjust and immoral system.


Capitalism as an economic system was designed by psychopaths. Contrary to what the people here seem to think, I hold the same opinion of Marx; I couldn't get past the second page of the Communist Manifesto without throwing up my hands and refusing to continue to read such crap.

No political theorist who has ever lived, has managed to devise anything that will work, while human society contains inherent, neurological and spiritual psychopaths. It does not matter what it is called; the result is always the same. Stratification, hierarchy, and elitism.

There is no real point trying to argue that with anyone here however, I'm starting to realise. A minority of people have reacted very positively; but the single most tragic thing about this forum, is the number of people here who are utterly brainwashed, conservative drones. They very obviously have no clue whatsoever why they believe what they do; all they do is regurgitate what they have been told. If you try and ask them to elaborate beyond the canned bullet points they have inside their heads, their arguments almost immediately fall apart.
edit on 6-2-2012 by petrus4 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 06:39 AM
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OP, I share your disenchantment with capitalism. At the same time however, I have yet to see an implementation of any breed of socialism or communism which would address all of these issues either. While I agree with many of the stated ideals of socialism (just as I share the stated ideals of democracy) and share your views verbatim re: people's attitudes toward so-called "useless eaters" - a term I find repugnant - like democracy and capitalism, the implementation by and corruption of those with power in such systems maintains such ills. The system is not as large a problem as the people in my opinion.

Sadly, until scarcity is eliminated (something I strongly believe is already possible in terms of food and basic needs were we to adopt more efficient distribution as a species, but for which political and social will is sadly nonexistent,) we are stuck with inequality and people who will live their (often brief) lives in abject poverty or worse.

That said, I have great hope that we are rapidly (relatively speaking) evolving toward a future where technology and expanding human consciousness will result in the elimination of scarcity. I may be wrong, but that is my sincere hope.


edit on 2/6/2012 by AceWombat04 because: Typo



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 06:47 AM
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reply to post by petrus4
 


The definition of Freedom I use refers the Individual's right to self determination so long as he does not intrude on the Liberty of another Individual. While this does not completely rule out the situation you describe, I think it would be quite difficult for any person or small portion of the population to get the rest to give up all property under this principle.

I will agree that Free Markets with a small government structure to guarantee the rights of the Individual against other Individuals, corporations or the government itself is a hypothetical inasmuch as it no longer exists. It was a radical idea when it was founded and worked effectively for a century before the system was hijacked and gamed by those who would trample on the Rights of their fellow man for wealth.

Socialism in the form advocates here would prescribe has not had a real-world example on a large scale. Varying degrees of it have or are being tried, and nearly all have lead to tyranny or financial (near) collapse in the experimenting countries. The system I describe did not facilitate either of these until after it was altered beyond recognition, a process that took over a century. It should also be noted that at any time during this change, Citizens could have facilitated a move back to the original system but became complacent.

Complacency in either system has, in History and in my own thought experiments, been the downfall of both systems. The Free Markets I advocate require much more time and a serious failure of the Citizens to alter so much that they become fascism. Anarcho-Socialism requires some time to devolve into a system with sort of psuedo-government, but once there requires only one misstep by the Citizens for a despot to gain control. I simply advocate for the system I believe is the least among evils, the one that, in my opinion, requires the most work for sociopaths to cheat and transform, as a vigilant Citizenry should be able to recognize the transition and stop/reverse it before it is too late.

I'm sorry if you feel deflated because you think these are talking points I've been fed my entire life. I've found (most of) this thread to be very thought provoking, and it has even caused me to question my own beliefs a time or two. After mulling the ideas, I began posting my thoughts and reasoning for my conclusions, not a list of things I've been told to say. There is merit in trying to solve existing problems by debating new/different ideas with others and in trying to think outside of what most would consider normal. I obviously reasoned my way to a different conclusion than you. That's fine, it's my opinion. You are allowed to have your own in my mind because in it you have the same Freedom and Liberty I do. That doesn't mean I won't question it or try to persuade you though, and it doesn't mean you have to change it to agree with me if I try to explain my views to you.



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 06:53 AM
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Originally posted by daskakik
You seem to have brought up the people who have escaped Cuba as proof that Cubans were not behind the revolution. Both were Cuban. Simple as that.


I have family who were part of the whole ordeal, which you obviously have no idea about.

For example, one of my uncles, Sergio Montes De Oca was one of castro's captain when the revolution was starting, but many of castro's men, and my uncle himself alongside other Cubans turned against castro because he was breaking promises from the beginning...

At first castro said it wasn't socialism that he was going to implement, then when he took power he said he implemented a socialist system on Cuba, many of his men turned against him, more so for the things castro and his henchemen were doing to Cubans, and castro sent che guevara, among others to kill those Cubans that realized they had made a mistake... che also murdered the heads of families, and even some children who didn't want to help them and were helping those Cubans who were turning against castro.

My uncle, alongside many others were captured, and spent 15 years in a Cuban prison where he recieved regular beatings. They dislodged 3 vertebrae in his spine, and crushed one of his testicles from the beatings. Not to mention the broken bones. That uncle died about a year ago.

My grandfather was a military officer before and during batista's reign, but my grandfather decided to retire because he didn't agree with batista. castro sent men to recruit my grandfather for the revolution, the same thing they tried to do with other retired military, and police personel, but my granfather refused, and he, alongside every other military officer and police officer had to turn in their weapons.

Before castro's reign after you retired from the Cuban military, or police you could take your weapons with you and keep them. castro, and his henchmen ended that because they didn't want anyone who could turn against them having weapons, so no regular Cubans have had weapons since the revolution, except the military, and some others in the high end of the communist party.

After a while castro said he was implementing communism, which is very similar to what chavez has been doing to Venezuela.

Another attrocity castro committed, among the many others, was when he sent Cuban migs to destroy a couple of rescue Cessna Skymasters from Brothers to The Rescue which were miles outside of Cuban waters and airspace and were in international waters, and were just trying to help Cubans that could be lost at sea.

Clinton was President back then and he didn't do anything, despite the fact that there were several witnesses who were Americans or other tourists who saw what happened from their boats.

You want to see what other attrocities other socialists/communists do?... Look at what has been happening with Tibet, the Tibetans that the Chinese miltiary have shot even as they were trying to escape from Tibet... Look at North Korea, they spent millions on their military meanwhile EVERYONE is starving over there...

You sir, and your friends who want to "try socialism/communism since it hasn't been tried" are the reason why so many socialist dictatorships have existed, and continue to exist...

The world would be a much better place not only if socialism/communism ceased to exist, but alongside anyone who wants to implement these blights on humanity yet again...




Originally posted by daskakik
Your the one posting things and then trying to pass them off as my words. That pic shows who is the one making exaggerated claims.


That picture shows what people with common sense will do about socialism/communism...

You, and your leftwist friend have no freaking idea of what you are talking about, NOTHING I said is an exageration, but your ignorance, and of course since you are a leftwinger, you don't want to admit the truth of socialism/communism...

Unless you have family in Cuba, and who were on both sides of the conflict you don't know what in the world you are talking about...


edit on 6-2-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 07:07 AM
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Originally posted by ImaFungi
also why do you think you cannot be rewarded or have freedom in a socialistic society... say everyone works 4 to 5 days a week, you can work extra and make more, i dont see why not... you can be free to do whatever you want.. if there is not a business venture within the society you can create one and run it?

the biggest reason im advocating for a change is because id rather everyone get to live?

your argument is fcuk em,, im exceptional


You are not free in any "socialistic society"... First of all appart from your regular job, you also have to work for the government, more so when being a child, starting from around 11-12 years old, "to help pay for your education", and you work in hard labor camps which you wouldn't want your dog to be in.

Not to mention that in socialism/communism "the revolution/the state" comes first, and you don't have the freedom to want anything different from what the state wants, and of course you can't even speak against the system "the revolution or the state"...

Marx himself said...


The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism.” Karl Marx quotes (German political Philosopher and revolutionary, 1818-1883)


Which means anyone who want to oppose socialism, even if it is in a peaceful manner, is in fact an enemy of the state and the revolution...


edit on 6-2-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 07:31 AM
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reply to post by petrus4
 


In his confession, the Communist Bolshevik Kristian Rakovsky admitted that both Communism and Capitalism were created as two giant pincers to ensnare society from both the Left and the Right. Capitalism, in truth, works well but not if society is dumbed-down into "homo stultum" as it has been, where the idiots can be deliberately manipulated into overspending, refusing to work and ultimately causing the revolution - thus allowing the worst dictator imaginable to step in...

If you read Rakovsky's interrogation in "Red Symphony", you'll understand why Capitalism is the way it is today.



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 09:10 AM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
At first castro said it wasn't socialism that he was going to implement, then when he took power he said he implemented a socialist system on Cuba, many of his men turned against him, more so for the things castro and his henchemen were doing to Cubans, and castro sent che guevara, among others to kill those Cubans that realized they had made a mistake... che also murdered the heads of families, and even some children who didn't want to help them and were helping those Cubans who were turning against castro.

It still doesn't change the fact that other cubans stood behind him and they were still your countrymen.


That picture shows what people with common sense will do about socialism/communism...

Also doesn't change the fact that the market exists and people are not going to jail for it, contrary to what you claim.


You, and your leftwist friend have no freaking idea of what you are talking about, NOTHING I said is an exageration, but your ignorance, and of course since you are a leftwinger, you don't want to admit the truth of socialism/communism...

I'm not leftist. I'm just arguing the semantics and double standards.


Unless you have family in Cuba, and who were on both sides of the conflict you don't know what in the world you are talking about...

You pull that card too often. As I have pointed out, this part of your experience only makes you biased.

I guessed you missed this from someone who lived it and thinks otherwise. He even directed it to you but I guess you missed it.


Speaking of those traumtised by previous experience of a communist dictator ElectricUniverse if you have any time away from point scoring, I'd like to ask you if you could contrast the Cuban experience of Communism with that of the Socialist Federal Republic of Jugoslavija? I ask because you have made a numbe of blanket statements about Communism which do not cover the Yugoslav experience. As I stated in my previous post, the successor countries of the former Yugoslavia (excepting Slovenia) which today are supposed democracies are still worse off than they were under Tito's Communism. Serbia, Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro and Kosovo are if anything more riddled with corruption than they ever were under the Communists. How does that tally with your opinion?


www.abovetopsecret.com...


edit on 6-2-2012 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 09:39 AM
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No large society is truly free. We are trapped into following the rules of the society whether right or wrong. Capitalism isn't evil or bad, it is a system of governing people. Without government and rules for society there would be nothing but Kaos(Get smart). Capitalism can work but it appears that the people running it have made big errors because they have believed in people that take too much risk. To correct this these risktakers have to be tossed out of the system. There is such a thing as allowable risk or necessary risk. What happened to risk assessment in business, has it been put out to pasture?

Every time you get behind the wheel of a car you take a chance of getting in an accident. If you drive everywhere and don't have a good reason for driving you are increasing the risk without a payback, in fact it costs you. If you use a cell phone or any other sort of distraction you again increase the risk. If you are angry or drunk it again goes up and there could be a ticket to boot. Sooner or later you're chance of having an acident or ticket and increased insurance rates approaches 100 percent. Businesses are employing many people where they do not get an adequate payback for the cost. These unnecessary high paying jobs are ok on a limited basis right at the top but the numbers have been increasing and are approaching ratios never seen before. If the head of the business was to evaluate what's happening they would find they can have five workers producing something for one not cost effective person. Employers noticed that their profits increased after getting rid of some of these people in the last few years and it will be a long time before these jobs are again filled. Bottom line counts.

For capitalism to work people have to be working to have money to spend. We need to create more manufacturing jobs for people, jobs for things we really need on a regular basis. We need good toasters and coffee pots made here, we can export jobs but just cut our throats. Giving credit to risky people didn't work. We needed to make these people less risky with the creation of real jobs, not consumer based industries. That whole idea was the biggest joke pulled on America. We're going to pay for that for generations to come.

My advise to the government....Get real....



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 09:59 AM
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The problem could be that we're, each of us, selfish by nature. Most of us do not have the wherewithal to make millions or billions of dollars in 5 years or less. If we did, we would be scrambling for footholds too. I really do not believe Bill Gates or Soros or Rockefeller or any of the other rich men (or woman) are much different than anyone else. They simply had the capacity. No more distinction is necessary, in my mind.

And there's something else. Resources on earth are finite. So, lets say, there's 100 energy on earth (for use) and there're 100 people. The people have to figure out how to distribute this energy. Since people generally want to be credited for their work, some will ask for more payment than others due to the work they do and their judgments about its value. More importantly, not everybody is the same. They each have different skills and talents. This causes a storm of disputes over where the resources (energy) will go. Not every person can be perfectly aware of the variables. This can only increase the tension. The question is: Does our selfishness intrude on this process of determining where the resources go?

I had a dream the other day. I woke up after hearing this on the radio (in a bathroom): "If all the doors are closed then you'll only find one door open." What's interesting about this is the context of the dream. I was in the bathroom talking with my brother about my failures as a person. He chastised me. Then as we were leaving the bathroom a radioman came onto the speaker and started to talk about people and money and corruption. At one point, he stated something like, "Money and power corrupt freedom." Keep in mind that I'm hearing this in my dream, not on an actual radio. Now, after I woke up, it took a few moments to realize I had been dreaming. But the statement about the doors remained in my mind because I think it has some inner wisdom. I think what it's actually saying is this: "If all the doors can be closed then you'll only find one door open." It's another way of saying that people, by their nature, prefer to keep secrets. Given true freedom, we would choose to hoard whatever we have and only exchange with others what's necessary.

I saw a study that concluded the happiest people were in socialist democracies in europe. Something like that, if my memory serves me (does it?). I think there was probably some bias in the study since a lot of studies come out of organizations that're, behind the scenes, funded by others who're not unbiased.

My point is that we will always fight each other because we're greedy. But greed is like the bread and butter of motivation. We all want a better life. We're motivated to achieve greater and greater things. Everybody has a dream they want to be made real. If you take all of that away, what would there be left? Because greed can have a bad ending doesn't mean we should remove it from ourselves. Greed is a hunger, like any other. Hunger can drive us to achieve, but it can also cause us to torment others.

There's something else on my mind. It has sort of been crammed into the back of my mind for the past year or two. I read a study or something (to that effect) about evolution. It had to do with something that (as argued) drives evolution. Conventional thinking says that we evolve because we compete and the losers are culled from the population. Competition is its central theme. But this article I read pointed to another driver of evolution. Instead of competition, it was about the expansion of a species into a new domain. The argument was that expansion into new areas might be as contributing to evolution as competition has been. This, as I'm led to believe, is in opposition to historical argument. I don't know why I wanted to bring this up, but I did because it's stuffed tight in the back of my mind and sometimes needs open air.
edit on 6-2-2012 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 03:35 PM
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I had to pause at page 43 to jump in....just couldn't take anymore.

Throw away your learned definitions of Socialism and Capitalism and use your OWN brain for a few moments. You are arguing over definitions theolized by gentleman in the 18th and 19th centuries! Use YOUR eyes and minds to see what's going on.

To address the hatred of Socialism I will go here: How can ANY human being who is good of heart be against something designed to bring everyone together? I mean really think about this...if you want to break down good and evil what is the one thing necessary to implement evil? You need to separate the people! It's the reason I dry face at the bible when it's said God was unhappy with the humans organizing and attempting to build a Tower, he then came down and caused the people to have confused tongues. Why would a good God want to cause confusion and war?

What I see here are plenty of people who are in support of evil/Satan and aren't even aware. Yelling that they basically want and deserve the Right to be selfish and only concerned with themselves!

As has been stated, we haven't really had Socialism practiced yet except for a brief attempt by Spain. Everything else was tyrannical rule "labeled" as Socialism. If I hand you a apple and tell you it's a orange....would you tell me it's an apple or an orange? Could you tell the difference? If you answer yes....why can you not admit that the countries commonly listed as Socialist, weren't really such?

It has also been stated WHY Socialism was made to look as evil and bad as possible. If you didn't catch it, let me repeat it for you slowly: SOCIALISM WAS MADE TO LOOK BAD BECAUSE THE PSYCHO'S ARE ADDICTED TO THEIR POWER AND IF EVERYONE IS PRETTY MUCH EVIL AND SELF SUFFICIENT....WHERE WOULD THEY FIND THEIR DUMMIES TO ABUSE AND MAKE WORK FOR THEM???

This is supposed to be a forum where people are awake...and there are just as many sleeping sheeple here as anywhere! There are people here who have been fooled and not even know it!

I'll return later to continue chastising the champions of separatism and evil...



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by DZAG Wright
Throw away your learned definitions of Socialism and Capitalism and use your OWN brain for a few moments.


We know socialism not from books and definitions, we know it from experience.




You are arguing over definitions theolized by gentleman in the 18th and 19th centuries! Use YOUR eyes and minds to see what's going on.


Have you seen the life of others? Its one of the best depictions of our experience of socialism ever shot. Its about fairly recent times.



To address the hatred of Socialism I will go here: How can ANY human being who is good of heart be against something designed to bring everyone together?


Socialism is not designed to bring everyone together. It is designed to take wealth and power from those who have it, and redistribute it among the people. This means, those who are building society and keeping it together are stripped of their ability to do so. Which is why socialist societies always collapse.



I mean really think about this...if you want to break down good and evil what is the one thing necessary to implement evil? You need to separate the people! It's the reason I dry face at the bible when it's said God was unhappy with the humans organizing and attempting to build a Tower, he then came down and caused the people to have confused tongues. Why would a good God want to cause confusion and war?


This old tale is a metaphor warning of socialism. Its no surprise you misunderstand and misrepresent it.
It is about people who became megalomaniac in trying to build an equality-utopia other than the one already in place: A planet where people could exercise their free will and choice between good/bad.



What I see here are plenty of people who are in support of evil/Satan and aren't even aware. Yelling that they basically want and deserve the Right to be selfish and only concerned with themselves!


As explained previously, the primary motivation of capitalism is not selfishness, otherwise it would collapse.
This is and always has been a misconception and projection by socialists. Capitalism is driven by service to society, production, play and creativity. Were selfishness its primary motive it could not collect money. Even some supposed capitalists in this thread falsely believe that selfishness is the prime-motive and that selfishness is "good". I dare say these "capitalists" dont know what they're talking about. Most capitalists I know have more than enough money and dont need anymore, so why do they keep on going? For entirely different reasons than the public suspects. This is why 99% of the worlds charity does not come from socialists, it comes from capitalists.



As has been stated, we haven't really had Socialism practiced yet except for a brief attempt by Spain.


Thats what socialists say every time another one of their utopias has failed. "Lets do another one. This time its REALLY going to be socialism". Yeah, right.




Everything else was tyrannical rule "labeled" as Socialism.


You dont understand that tyranny is inherent in the very blueprints of socialist thought because it concerns the life of others rather than ones own. Please THINK for goodness sake.



If I hand you a apple and tell you it's a orange....would you tell me it's an apple or an orange? Could you tell the difference? If you answer yes....why can you not admit that the countries commonly listed as Socialist, weren't really such?


Once you tell me what socialism "really" is, I will be able to tell you how the policies you list will eventually deteriorate into destitution, decay, poverty, police state and maybe even genocide as in some socialist experiments. Ive already done that a few times throughout this thread but socialists dont bother to read views alternative to theirs or to admit to mistakes. If a socialist were to admit to mistakes, he could actually build a better world and perhaps a better socialism. Many socialists today still dont acknowledge that the Soviet Union was a mistake.



It has also been stated WHY Socialism was made to look as evil and bad as possible.


This one is used by socialists again and again...even throughout this thread. And that is, to blame "them" and "TPTB" for the troubles.


If you didn't catch it, let me repeat it for you slowly: SOCIALISM WAS MADE TO LOOK BAD BECAUSE THE PSYCHO'S ARE ADDICTED TO THEIR POWER AND IF EVERYONE IS PRETTY MUCH EVIL AND SELF SUFFICIENT....WHERE WOULD THEY FIND THEIR DUMMIES TO ABUSE AND MAKE WORK FOR THEM???


The socialist is always under the impression of being a victim of oppression.

Socialism as Infantilism
edit on 6-2-2012 by Skyfloating because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 04:24 PM
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Originally posted by mc_squared
Here is my biggest problem with Capitalism:
It is inherently prone to corruption.


Really? Can you name something that is not prone to corruption?



What I mean by that is - it is fundamentally doomed, by human nature, to lead towards an unjust and immoral system.


Capitalism has brought wealth and prosperity to the world. Socialism has brought destruction and genocide.
Case closed.



Because think about it: Capitalism is predicated on this principle that individual motivation, i.e. personal "ambition", is what breeds the most successful overall system. The more you want something - the harder you work for it, etc.But the problem is - in our society unfortunately - the most "ambitious" people are almost always NOT the hardest working.


Capitalists dont work hard, they work smart. If you want to see really hard work look no further than the Gulag-Camps of socialist societies.



They are in fact simply the ones who will do anything to get to the top, absent of ethics or empathy towards others. That means they lie, cheat, steal, and collude amongst themselves to get there and squeeze others out.


"They lie, cheat, steal" is another marxist delusion. It comes from the false belief that you can only earn money by criminal means and that all successful people are evil. This is the infantile worldview of the hurt inner child.



So Capitalism, held unchecked, naturally leads to a system run by the exact sort of criminals in government and big business we see today (surprise, surprise!).


May I ask how many corporation-produced products, apart from your computer, foods and beverages, you use every day? Have you ever expressed gratitude to corporations for providing them to you? Let me guess: Not only have you never expressed gratitude, you never even considered where all your wealth comes from.



But in Capitalism it's almost like you're stacking the deck with the worst kind of building blocks right from the very start.


Capitalism is one of the building blocks of modern society. You seem to want to get rid of those building blocks, or as Marx said: "All things must perish"



They hijack and exploit the system, and pretty soon all the actual hard-working people are nothing more than their personal wage slaves anyway, working hard and fighting each other for what's left of the table scraps.


Employees and Workers are people who of their own free will and choice, agreed to work certain hours for a certain pay. They are personally responsible for their decisions. Vilifying them as slaves mischaracterizes the nature of the contract between a corporation and an individual. The purpose of this mischaracterization is, of course, socialist "poor me"-propaganda.



This is where the real crux of the problem lies stuck in the mud.


No. Not even remotely.



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 05:14 PM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating
May I ask how many corporation-produced products, apart from your computer, foods and beverages, you use every day? Have you ever expressed gratitude to corporations for providing them to you? Let me guess: Not only have you never expressed gratitude, you never even considered where all your wealth comes from.

Don't really care about the rest of your post because it's the same merry go round but this I have to say is sad.

Why should anyone pay gratitude to a corporation or business? They should express gratitude that we choose to give them our money for their products.

They are not where my wealth comes from. Actually their wealth comes from their employees and from me buying their products and/or services.



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 05:16 PM
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Originally posted by daskakik
Actually their wealth comes from their employees and from me buying their products and/or services.


Precisely. Their wealth comes not from exploitation and oppression, but primarily from providing you goods and services.



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 05:17 PM
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Originally posted by daskakik

Why should anyone pay gratitude to a corporation or business?


Thats truly sad. Bill Gates alone has progressed civilization more than any socialist ever will. And Bill Gates is only ONE Business person.And you dont know why you should be grateful? Truly heartbreaking.
edit on 6-2-2012 by Skyfloating because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 05:24 PM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 

That is not exactly what you had said. You said that they are where our wealth comes from and I think that is seldom the case.

I agree that the money made isn't always through oppresión but it is by exploitation. There is nothing wrong with that word. That is just what it's called when someone takes advantage of a resource, including a workforce.



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 05:27 PM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


No way, Bill Gates took an existing product and payed someone else to adapt it to the IBM hardware. He then cut a sweet deal because the folks at IBM didn't see the potential.



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