Why my mind is closing towards Capitalism

Originally posted by colin42

You draw the line at promoting inequality.

Your better at football than me, (most people are). I am better at babmington than you does that mean I do not value your skills and you mine? When I should have gone for county trials in babmington a footballer was sent instead as the games teacher only valued football and gave any opportunity to footballers. Inequality in action.

If Im in your shoes I go somewhere else where badminton is more valued instead of protesting in front of the football coaches office.

While you were working hard how many did you see shoe horned in who made no effort?

Who cares? If I start looking at that, I weaken my own path and resolve. Capitalism vs. Socialism is a mentality thing. We dont seek to change anyone else but ourselves. Trying to change society (others) doesnt work.

If they made no effort to get to their position, do you think they`ll enjoy it as much as I do? Do you think they are as strong as I am? Not hardly. A free hand-out usually has a weakening effect on the receiver. You assume that them getting their position without effort is good for them, when it is not.

Originally posted by BBalazs
reply to post by colin42

 

where is the level playing field in nature?
you are setting up an unattainable ideal, and forcing it on all.

We are talking society and ideology here not the african plains. Of course we should strive to ensure the playing field is a level one.

Your correct question should be is it attainable. Then my answer would be no but we should ensure it is as level as we can make it. Not to do so stifles talent and that is a waste.

reply to post by ImaFungi


In a world with only cooperation there are no new ideas. There is no reason to come up with new ideas. Everyone would be focused on improving the candle, not inventing light bulbs. Cooperation has its place, too, but competition drives ideas forward faster than a bunch of guys sitting around arguing about which way is best all day. Competition is the proving ground, its how we find out how ideas stack up against each other. If everyone is always working on the same project and only trying one solution, then how do we know we are picking the correct ones?

reply to post by colin42


yes, but the way to make it level, is provide freedom of choice to all, not take it away, and control it by a nanny.
we are not infants.
well apparently some of us are.
you create an even playing field, by bottom up approach, not top down.
people take care of their surroundings, because it their interest, not because they are coerced.
to got to a higher enlightenment we need critical thinking and education not force.
force will never ever ever WORK.
it will just create more rules, laws and regulation, until you have no AIR:
this is what is happening as we speak.
the rick enshrine themselves and are protected., with laws, regulations.
more laws and regulation will FURTHER enshrine them.
all because of TOP DOWN regulation and force.
let go of subsidies, let go of the hand of the state.
make it smaller, make it wiser, and there will be plenty left for education and social institutions...
give freedom, and through choice, and free will people will thrive.
educate them to our interconnectivity and people can and WILL make a difference (bill gates, buffet, etc).
make the slaves, and their souls will wither and die.
make them slaves to an ideal, and they will rebel, or totally degenerate.

Originally posted by ProgressiveSlayer
reply to post by ImaFungi

 

In a world with only cooperation there are no new ideas. There is no reason to come up with new ideas. Everyone would be focused on improving the candle, not inventing light bulbs. Cooperation has its place, too, but competition drives ideas forward faster than a bunch of guys sitting around arguing about which way is best all day. Competition is the proving ground, its how we find out how ideas stack up against each other. If everyone is always working on the same project and only trying one solution, then how do we know we are picking the correct ones?

this is just ridiculous... in a company that creates an idea.. it is a group of men/women, who share resources and ideas cooperating to create a technology or product... there would still be the same strive to gain knowledge of the universe, micro and macro, and implement that knowledge and understanding into technology, if everyone everyone was on the same team.. we would not just give up on progressing.. if right now we stopped all wars,, and all the governments of the world polled their resources, ( brain power, money, resources, ideas) the world would be fed, and we would be zipping around the galaxy...... all that matters is food and technology....

reply to post by Skyfloating

If Im in your shoes I go somewhere else where badminton is more valued instead of protesting in front of the football coaches office.

If you were in my shoes your options would have been the same. In the late 60's early 70's on a council estate the only path open to babmington was via the school. I earned my chance by beating an international player only revealed after. The opportunity I made was given to another (member of the football team) without my knowledge. Your options would have been the same as mine when you faced the same closed door. It did not stop me playing babmington to this day but it did limit how far I could have gone and deny the sport a potentail talent.

I'm afraid I just do not accept the rest of your post. Knowing the opposition does not weaken resolve. That is nonsense.

It is quite obvious that many undeserving that get spoon fed positions by the old school tie road are very happy and if you avoided looking up you can be sure they were looking down and if they see a challenge rising to the fat idle unearnt position they would and do ensure any threat is removed or held back.

reply to post by ImaFungi

just like skin color, religion, or viewpoint. there is not one team. there is not one method.
there are billions of viewpoint and methods.
they can each be equally valid, and correct.
there are many teams.
some compete some do not.
everyone truly is a winner in their own way.
only for mind creates losers.
and only forced top down slavery and trickery creates losers.
the code to understanding each other: language, communications.
the tool of cooperation: society
the conduit to betterment: free markets, free will and free choice and competition as well as cooperation.
with 1 choice, you have no choice at all.
you become genderless, nameless, empty and hallow.
1984.
we have to celebrate ou differences, embrace them. we can learn a lot from each other.
denying this choice is wrong!
it is communism.

reply to post by ImaFungi


All that matters is Freedom, without it there is a shortage of both food and technology. For your "everyone on the same team" approach to work, there would inevitably have to be competition within the team between different ideas. It is not sustainable for any government, world-wide or otherwise, to do this monetarily. Greater progress in technology is achieved when those big, bad private companies fund the research for profit. The ideas still get "shared" in this way and you have cut probably billions of dollars of bureaucracy and government waste on trying to flesh out which ideas are feasible. If the government is wasting the resources it took from you (in a socialistic society) it is worth pointing out there is less to go around for everyone just because you don't like the idea of there being winners and losers. Companies pool resources and share ideas all the time, keep government out of it and it's a lot more efficient.

reply to post by BBalazs
I don’t really know why you feel you should tell me this. I don’t give a hoot what ideology you have because none of them work for the majority.

My view is anyone with a strongly held ideology be kept as far away from power and decision making as possible. We have centuries of proof none of them work and centuries of proof that unfettered ideology fails catastrophically.

Politicians should not be VIP celebs they should be short term servants of the people. I don’t need to know what their wives wore to Epson or see photos of their ghastly kids. They should be wired up to lie detectors every time they make a speech and kicked out for broken promises.

In short my ideology is avoid idealists at all costs and oppose them at all times.

reply to post by ProgressiveSlayer


the military has created the most advanced technology that has ever been seen by human eyes... because it was given unlimited amount of money,, from the taxpayers, and unlimited amount of mind power.

reply to post by colin42


i don't have an ideology. you do.
you propagate communism.
you discount human nature, and promote a one state model.
i will not argue with you anymore, you are blind to words and reason.

reply to post by ImaFungi


The military gives the money to private corporations who develop the technology and compete against each other for the military contracts. Educate yourself...

reply to post by BBalazs


human nature is we all need to eat... what system can we establish so that can become a reality?

reply to post by ImaFungi
The condom had the potential to change the world we see today. Ideology denied its widespread use.

reply to post by ProgressiveSlayer


why should the peoples tax dollars go to supporting private corporations?

Originally posted by BBalazs
reply to post by colin42

 

i don't have an ideology. you do.
you propagate communism.
you discount human nature, and promote a one state model.
i will not argue with you anymore, you are blind to words and reason.

Oh I am a communist am I thanks for offering the label dont be offended if I tell you where you can stick it.

What part of identifying talent and nurturing it is communist and a denial of human nature? Never mentioned state only society whats up not got a box to put that one in?

Your not arguing your labeling with no basis to do so

reply to post by ImaFungi


you Sooo miss the point.
we can establish any system we like.
except communism.
communism is failed system.
you are thinking in dualities and do not see the blindingly obvious in front of you.
you think communism is the opposite of what there is now.
you are wrong.
you will always be haunted by these perplexing questions without answers, because you are going round in circles.
you do not actually listen or read what i have written.
you have ideologized politics, when ideology belongs in philosophy.
you are striving for an ideal, you shall never reach it, just become more and more frustrated.

the system doesnt start with the ideology.
is nature, the universe ideologicized?
a system starts with a need. but not a need for an unattainable ideal, but for an intermediary to dispense fair and wise rules. to be as equal as possible to all. this can only be achieved by less is more. by wise leaders.
it can never be forced, or ideologized.
you should read the toa the king, if you want to know how freedom works.
you are staving for a fairy tale, your mind lost in dualities.
you yourself cling to ideology and cannot see the system for what it is.
it is just a system.
nothing more.
you attach feeling and get lost, and accuse others of ideology when then lack ideology.
what they have is common sense and a deep understanding of what freedom is.
the simplest path in this case is correct.
freedom is freedom.
freedom is not the will, laws, regulation of a 1 state entity.
it is too complex.
a every man has a different need, it will never work.
but freedom is much more similar to all.
yet you bring emotions into freedom, when it is a state of being, enlightenment.
sigh.
i will leave you to wonder your mind in infinity loops, finding the truth virus you so cherish.
good luck.

reply to post by ImaFungi


In short, it shouldn't. However, private corporations tend to do things a lot more efficiently, and the money rarely trades hands until the military has selected a company for a contract and is purchasing the product. Grants are sometimes given to jump start the research, and I admit this should not be case. It is, however, also not representative of the Free Market system I defend, it is a symptom of a broken system that can't decided whether it should head toward communism or fascism faster, a very sad statement on the current state of society indeed.

reply to post by colin42


when you guys bring up human nature it is always how negative human nature is.. look at humanity, the majority of people dont kill each other every day running around pissin and snippin all over the streets..... we highlight the bright side and positive side.. we wish to politely suggest a system where all humans dont need to use their more dark human nature against other humans... we banded together to form community, communeity, because it was easier working together, pooling skills and sights, fending off nature as a group... dont abandon us now and regress to your evil apeish ways.. most life seeks the light

reply to post by Skyfloating

Once you have achieved your anarchy, you will be asking: "Alright, how can we organize stuff more efficiently?" by which you will be right back to politics. But in general I wouldnt mind less Government, so we agree on that.

Of course, without proper organization, planning and management it is impossible for a society to run smoothly. But is political system the only way to go about it? Not anymore, because we are living in the technological age, where we can feed computers with algorithms to take care of each and every aspect of our lives and hence the name 'Anarcho Technocracy'. You see, when you let technology be the governing body of a society, it becomes free of all human biases and irrelevant detrimental ideologies thereby raising the standard of living of each and every person increases at a rate much faster than now and promoting peaceful co existence at the same time.

You think people are going to contribute without getting anything tangible in return? Im not seeing that to be the mentality of people in this age. Without some motivation there is no action, there is decay.

I agree with you on this partially because to have a civilized society (unlike the present one) there has to be a major shift in people's values. As far as people not contributing is concerned for anything tangible in return, applies for boring, monotonous jobs which you have to submit to day in and day out without a choice since you need the money to house and feed yourself. In a society which is highly technologically advanced there would be no need for such jobs. This is where automation comes into play and the extent to which our society right now can be automated is beyond our wildest imagination. The reasons we do not see it happening could be because there is hardly, if at all any funding in the research of automation, since keeping people employed under this system is of out most importance. No employment, no money in the market and hence the entire system collapses. In a RBE motivation and incentives will have a different source and meaning. Their own ingenuity and the ability to pursue their own interest would be strongest drive in people in the fields of art, philosophy, research etc etc.

I have everything I need...air, food, water, shelter. As do most others. Those that do not can aim to get some.

Good for you! But that is not the case with most others. Perhaps you live in an urban area in a developed part of the world and hence your opinion. Majority of the world's population is still struggling for the basic amenities of life and striving to get them may sound logical but what can a man do when the political and economic system isn't designed to keep his welfare at it's heart. We are the architects and it is unto us to change it whenever we want to. The only question is, do you realize something is wrong?