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Why my mind is closing towards Capitalism

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posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 11:37 AM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


Do you even know what socialism is?

Does anyone on this forum?

I see people slag it all the time but do they know what the hell it is or are they just going by what they were spoon-fed by the MSM and Faux?

Just a honest question. I am sure it will be called "off-topic" but this is a question that must be answered because I see too much ignorance in regard to socialism.




posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 11:37 AM
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Originally posted by Paschar0
I'm of the belief of LIMITED capitalism, government, religion etc.

I'm for limiting corporate CEOs etc to only 100x their lowest paid employee. If you're THAT good and SO valuable, surely you can raise the standard of those that enable you.

There is NO ONE on this planet that is 100x better or works harder than anyone else, but I do believe in incentives and rewards for success, whether deserved or they just got lucky. But not to the extent that we have today.



But how do you limit it? Where do you draw the line?

Human nature pushes for expansion, and no one will agree on where to call the game. Everyone wants to go further, so it would be impractical to be a roof on the process.

They would call it "detrimental to societal and governmental growth". Translation: they would lose their money (even though they don't REALLY need it).
edit on CThursdayam020238f38America/Chicago02 by Starchild23 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by Skyfloating
 


Do you even know what socialism is?

Does anyone on this forum?

I see people slag it all the time but do they know what the hell it is or are they just going by what they were spoon-fed by the MSM and Faux?

Just a honest question. I am sure it will be called "off-topic" but this is a question that must be answered because I see too much ignorance in regard to socialism.


The only ignorance I see regarding socialism is coming from the ones who WANT it.



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by Skyfloating
 


Do you even know what socialism is?

Does anyone on this forum?

I see people slag it all the time but do they know what the hell it is or are they just going by what they were spoon-fed by the MSM and Faux?

Just a honest question. I am sure it will be called "off-topic" but this is a question that must be answered because I see too much ignorance in regard to socialism.


Ok would you care to elaborate on how you think people do not understand what socialism is? Would you like to explain the exact mechanics that you think people have gotten wrong? I'd love to hear it. Take your time.



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 11:44 AM
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Originally posted by Paschar0
What if your worker is inclined to agree to $1 an hour. .


Thats called free will / self-responsibility. A notion many socialist academics try to debunk.



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 11:44 AM
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Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by duality90

um. that is definitively not the meaning of capitalism or even the etymology of the word.


Actually he was pretty close.

Capitalism was defined by Marx as 'the private ownership of the means of production', and that is the definition mostly used now. The term was first used by the French socialist louis Blanc in his publication Organisation du travail [That link says 1848 but it was 1839 according to other sources. Marx used the term in 1848 in the Communist Manifesto].

Blanc defined the term as 'the appropriation of capital by some to the exclusion of others'.


This is correct. I don't think that's quite what he said, however?



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 11:50 AM
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Originally posted by The Sword
Do you even know what socialism is?


So instead of addressing a single one of the many many points and facts brought up, you retort with a rhetorical question, followed by...



I see people slag it all the time but do they know what the hell it is or are they just going by what they were spoon-fed by the MSM and Faux?


...the implication of being brainwashed by "the" media.

I know what Socialism is. I can also show you what it looks like. This is the best part of town in Pyonyang:





It reminds me of my visits to Russia and the Ukraine where they have this gray and bleak "equality housing" all over the place.

Do you know what Socialism is? Why not travel and get a taste of it? Why not move to a socialist country? There are plenty around.

Have you actually read a single point that I have brought up in this thread or are you just making blanket statements about brainwashing and fox news? I dont even watch Fox, I watch BBC.



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by thehoneycomb
reply to post by mastahunta
 





It doesn't piss you off, I know a bomb thrower when I see one, like when I look in the mirror...

Admit it, you don't love reality, you love the crusade of your own construct.



Does what piss me off?


Mods. Why do you allow this type of behavior? This guy needs to be shut up. Not for his opinions but for the way he conveys his thoughts and disrupts the thread. A true capitalist would not allow this behavior to continue to diminish the value of this website.



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 11:55 AM
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Originally posted by sligtlyskeptical

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
reply to post by mastahunta
 





It doesn't piss you off, I know a bomb thrower when I see one, like when I look in the mirror...

Admit it, you don't love reality, you love the crusade of your own construct.



Does what piss me off?


Mods. Why do you allow this type of behavior? This guy needs to be shut up. Not for his opinions but for the way he conveys his thoughts and disrupts the thread. A true capitalist would not allow this behavior to continue to diminish the value of this website.


A free capitalist society doesn't tolerate censorship, either.



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 11:57 AM
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I know what Socialism is. I can also show you what it looks like. This is the best part of town in Pyonyang:


There's a HUGE difference between socialism and authoritarian based communism.



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 11:58 AM
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reply to post by petrus4
 


Personally, I think there is a common reality in all political sides.

Socialism does work. So does communism. So does capitalism. So does any sort of political "vain" that people might have or come up with.

I've come to realize that social models aren't the problem, but society itself.

You may agree or disagree with some/all of the examples I mentioned earlier, but in the end they are not the real problem. Like you so brilliantly stated, the real problem is around the fact that the people who have power don't care less about the people who don't.

When I was younger, and I was still in school, sometimes I wondered how hard life was during medieval times. People living under the orders of kings and kingdoms that were only in place because they were the descendants of the king before. Entire countries, empires, raised and ruled by the personal dramas, dreams and lunacies of a few that had no connection at all with the population they should be protecting.

From time to time, the people has stepped up, faced them and demanded for change.

And after a couple of decades of living, and watching the world unfolding before my eyes, I can only draw a conclusion:

What for?

What have we gained from all the death, madness, fighting and sacrifices? We threw away kings for democracy? Sure. Now what?

We have stepped on top of these constant political and governmental models, and we are always the same. A huge portion of the population is poor, on the line between survival and death, and a very, very tiny portion lives like gods...

I have no word for it. People who have personal wealth evaluated around billions is madness to me. What can you do with 10 billion dollars that you can't do with 1 million? Why this constant need for more at the cost of so many lives? One of those bastards wealth could solve my whole country's issues, let alone all the billionaires in the world giving something back to the world... I have no doubts, it would be a much better place, for everyone, and most of the conflicts would vanish. There wouldn't even be a need to fight with each-other.

I'm not against people being rich, I think that if you make your own business (for example) and it works, and people use your services, and you get to get rich, there is nothing wrong with that.

I don't disagree with taxes, nor governments. I don't disagree, in principle, with any of the current models we have in our world. They do work.

What doesn't work, are the hearts and minds of the people who for generations have been kept in filthy rich environments. They don't know what's like to scavenge your pockets for the smallest cent to buy some food, just to get by one more day. They don't know what it is to study hard to get good grades, and when exhausted, having to leave to work in a job just to pay your education.

They don't know us, although we do know them.

We have made illusions that our problems were only kings and politicians, when in reality, there are people in this world that have become much more powerful than any king would have ever dreamed of...

...even kings had to fight for their empires.

This guys? Well, they just simply own and control everything. The monopoly game has raised to so higher levels, it's almost pointless for people to do thing's like...voting.

Besides, they fuel conflict. They throw in some coins, and they just sit and watch while we kill each-other in the vague hope that we get to a better living. We are so concerned about killing each-other for scraps, that we don't even look up, and watch the real monsters pulling all the strings.

This is not a conspiracy theory, this is not something that is delusional and unrealistic. These people exist, their fortunes exist, and the money doesn't come from their personal effort. Many of them are actual descendants of the same people we burned in public squares when we changed from monarchy to democracy.

We have been fooled.
edit on 2/2/12 by Tifozi because: typo



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 11:58 AM
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reply to post by petrus4
 


Our odds of survival are ten to one hundred times greater than yours.

My advice: keep your mind closed. It increases our odds of survival.

It's survival of the fittest, and the closed minded are the first to go.



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by L00kingGlass



I know what Socialism is. I can also show you what it looks like. This is the best part of town in Pyonyang:


There's a HUGE difference between socialism and authoritarian based communism.


Not really, since socialism is pretty much always authoritarian as well. How many surveillance cameras does the UK have again??



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by Skyfloating
 


Do you even know what socialism is?

Does anyone on this forum?

I see people slag it all the time but do they know what the hell it is or are they just going by what they were spoon-fed by the MSM and Faux?

Just a honest question. I am sure it will be called "off-topic" but this is a question that must be answered because I see too much ignorance in regard to socialism.


Socialism is Communim Lite.

While you are a socialist, you are peforming On the Job training to become a drone of the Communist system.

That wasn't hard to define.



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 12:02 PM
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Capitalism doesn't have to be bad. We are seeing a reduction in the morals of people and people wanting to work things as a country or combination of related communities. This seems to be evident throughout the capitalist societies. There are many very good corporations out there and also many bad ones. When controling entities start to look the other way and make exceptions, it gets around and soon even an honest company is cutting corners or bending their morals to compete. They take risks with our countries security just to build their companies.

I know people who had good small businesses but decided to take an expansion. They start another outlet and put themselves in debt. Everything goes good for a little while but they got really stressed out and find that they aren't making any more money and are working way more. They reward themselves for serving more people by buying a new car payment. Within a year or so things slow down and their bills are too high for their income. Everything looks good on paper thoiugh so they open another outlet. within a year they have become Kranky and they chase away their customers. People can tell if you are having problems and start to avoid you so the negativity doesn't run off. Then everything falls apart and it gets real messy.

It's not capitalism per say that is the problem. It's our own expectations that drive us to do risky things and not be satisfied with just being a small business owner. We think that if more people respect us it is better. In essence it is better to have the respect and friendship of a hundred good customers than the serving of a thousand people. It's getting harder and harder for a little neighborhood market to make it these days. The buying power isn't there and people are loosing their sense of loyalty to save a few bucks a week. People who own small businesses don't make that much because their expenses are high. I know that first hand. I also know that I liked owning my own business and knew from others I would never be rich. Maybe because My name is Rich I have no need to be rich. People expect too much when going into business, they are providing a service and if they like their work and keep costs in reason they can do it for a long time. I do not have anything against big business but think they should keep their noses out of the little mans dreams and work with them. Big business should stick to making factories and creating jobs for everyone. They used to do that, they took risks to help people earn a living. People got greedy though and chased away these jobs. That's also human nature.

So if you ask me, I would say it's not only the businesses fault that this country doesn't make anything anymore. The workers want too many benefits, the customers want cheaper, everyone wants to buy things that they really don't need and want a good deal. CEO's want to be pampered and they have way too many bigwheels in these companies, Stockholders want expansion and the stock market has too many high paid individuals that take risks. It seems to be everyones fault that our country is in debt and most people have high ppayments. This isn't capitalism at work, Capitalism has worked in the past. It's not just caused by the foods and beverages we drink either, the ones that stimulate the reward centers in the brain. It's a combination of lots of things that have become part of our society.

I'm sorry to bore you with the truth, we can't bury our heads in the sand any longer. If everyone opened their eyes and admitted "I was involved someway in this mess" our societies could permanently start the healing process. The American way is to shift blame on someone else though so I wonder why I bother to write this rant. I know it is useless to think americans will change. If I can increase the awareness of one individual I will feel like I accomplished something. Don't make you're dreams so big that they become nightmares.



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 12:04 PM
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Originally posted by L00kingGlass



I know what Socialism is. I can also show you what it looks like. This is the best part of town in Pyonyang:


There's a HUGE difference between socialism and authoritarian based communism.


Well, it's a slight difference, as we know that socialism is a bridge to communism. Socialism is communism light. Socialism is definitely a trend toward Totalitarianism, as the Nanny State begins to rule every aspect of our lives. As I said, in Cuba the govt dictates where you work. That is true from every communist state. Marx and Lenin and the CPUSA also state for the record that socialism is an intermediary between capitalism and communism.



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by AwakeinNM

Originally posted by L00kingGlass



I know what Socialism is. I can also show you what it looks like. This is the best part of town in Pyonyang:


There's a HUGE difference between socialism and authoritarian based communism.


Not really, since socialism is pretty much always authoritarian as well. How many surveillance cameras does the UK have again??




Get back to me when the UK brings in a dictator who abolishes democracy, starts setting up work camps, kills people who don't work hard enough, forces everyone to keep a picture of the dictator in every room, and all TV/radio is state approved and controlled to show only propaganda.


edit on 2-2-2012 by L00kingGlass because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 12:09 PM
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reply to post by petrus4
 


"Why my mind is closing towards Capitalism"

I'm guessing you either have made enough money that now you feel guilty, or you're broke and frustrated because you're one of those people who think "the rich dont do enough"

Why cant people take care of themselves? I understand on the individual level, but what about the societal level? Capitalism is not a perfect system, and neither is any other form of governance.

We try and send aid to countries who are starving, and the war lords just massacre the people who try and get the food, and then keep the food for themselves or sell it to the highest bidder. What should we do? Go in and invade their country and overthrow the corrupt regimes? Oh wait, we've tried that.....



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 12:09 PM
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reply to post by tonycliffs
 
Socialism is not Communism. There may have some things in common but they are not the same. Capitalism needs some socialism to work properly. Without it it cannot work



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 12:16 PM
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Originally posted by L00kingGlass

Originally posted by AwakeinNM

Originally posted by L00kingGlass



I know what Socialism is. I can also show you what it looks like. This is the best part of town in Pyonyang:


There's a HUGE difference between socialism and authoritarian based communism.


Not really, since socialism is pretty much always authoritarian as well. How many surveillance cameras does the UK have again??




Get back to me when the UK brings in a dictator who abolishes democracy, starts setting up work camps, kills people who don't work hard enough, forces everyone to keep a picture of the dictator in every room, and all TV/radio is state approved and controlled to show only propaganda.


edit on 2-2-2012 by L00kingGlass because: (no reason given)


That's not far off, pal.



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