'10,000 die a month' in Sudan = Zionist plot?

Its the only way to stabilise a world problem as the government there are not doing anything.

Originally posted by Munro_DreadGod
Send in the troops its the only way to stabilise a world problem as the government there are not doing anything.

This is what an official in Sudan said:

When I broached the prospect of international intervention, he said, �It will make things worse. People in Sudan do not like foreigners to control them. They would love to fight them.

What if he's right and it just makes the situation worse?

What if you can't safely send in ground troops, will you just launch air strikes like the Sudan government did in their fight against the South?

There is a possibility of very high civilian casualties using that method of fighting. Perhaps as high or higher than those who have already died.

[edit on 16-9-2004 by AceOfBase]

what if we do nothing, the problem will resolve that section of people will all be killed no people no problem.

Of course they don't want troops it'll end their fun.

Link this thread to syria tests chemical weapons not a situation I would like to think was happening but realisticaly whats the cure here bury our heads in the sand?

EU do something? UN do something? Sorry those two groups never DO anything. The money the UN and EU send will help the refugess live for a while until the Muslim militias come and chop off their arms and legs and heads. The EU and UN really don't want to DO anything. They will throw money at the problem hoping it will go away. It will "go away" after one side is dead just like what happened in Rwanda in 1994. The UN is nothing without the US. The EU is nothing because........well the EU just had its first military operation in the Balkans. It was a tiny EU army. The EU is not an executive organization able to act......

Im sure the people dieing there won't mind if the US did something, neither will I. Please do something. I think international agreement could be reached on this one.

Originally posted by Munro_DreadGod
Why have we not intervened by now?

Do all these lives lost mean nothing to anyone?

Shame on us.

Mr. Munro, we've disagreed in the past on some point, but on this one I think you're statements are 100% dead on. While the UN and international community is busy criticising the US, or the West, or the Secular World, people are being visiously murdered by paramilitary ethnic militias in and around Darfur.

as a side note, I had thought that the blacks in sudan were also muslim?

Originally posted by AceOfBase
When I broached the prospect of international intervention, he said, �It will make things worse. People in Sudan do not like foreigners to control them. They would love to fight them.[\quote]
Then the arab minority in control will be wiped out (at least those amoung them whom choose to resist) and control of the country will go to the 'native' population by default.

What if he's right and it just makes the situation worse?

Worse then genocide, murder, mayhem and anarchy?

What if you can't safely send in ground troops, will you just launch air strikes like the Sudan government did in their fight against the South?

Why wouldn't ground troops be able to get in?

There is a possibility of very high civilian casualties using that method of fighting. Perhaps as high or higher than those who have already died.

Higher than thousands a day? No, not likely. In the Iraq War -total- and estimated few thousand civilians, not counting soldiers, died, over the course of the whole war. There is no reason to think Sudan would be worse, and standing on the sidelines means watching a bloodbath.

Originally posted by Nygdan
Then the arab minority in control will be wiped out (at least those amoung them whom choose to resist) and control of the country will go to the 'native' population by default.

Worse then genocide, murder, mayhem and anarchy?

Why wouldn't ground troops be able to get in?

Higher than thousands a day? No, not likely. In the Iraq War -total- and estimated few thousand civilians, not counting soldiers, died, over the course of the whole war. There is no reason to think Sudan would be worse, and standing on the sidelines means watching a bloodbath.

I didn't say the ground troops wouldn't be able to get in, I'm just wondering if it will be too many casualties for the US to continue a ground assault.
They may resort to striking from the air which won't hit just the militia, as we've seen in Iraq.

As far as whether it will be higher than thousands per day, it might not be that high but it's possible the number of Darfur rebels, Janjawaeed militia and civilians killed may be in the thousands per month. 2,500 people died in Iraq in August. You might think that's Ok because they were mostly insurgents but how is that different than the Sudanese government who justified their initial actions by saying they were going after rebels who attacked the government?

BTW, I don't think there are thousands per day dying at the hands of the Janjaweed right now. A lot of the people who are dying are dying of disease.

I agree that something needs to be done but perhaps the African Union may be better suited to fighting this war as they are more familiar with the area and with the people.

Originally posted by AceOfBase
it's possible the number of Darfur rebels, Janjawaeed militia and civilians killed may be in the thousands per month.

Since the janjaweed militia are teh paramilitary organizations that are murdering and displacing civilians of a tdifferent ethinic tgroup than their own, I wouldn't be particularly concernd if they were dying, since, well, they're th ones that everyone would be going there to kill.

2,500 people died in Iraq in August. You might think that's Ok because they were mostly insurgents

No, they weren't insurgents. The military count was different, and I am talking about in the aactual course of the war proper. I had read it in Newsweek I beleive, the researcher had looked at the number of deaths in the public hospitals excluding the ones that served military members, and came out with a number around that.

Where'd you get that number by the way, just curious, I haven't been able to keep up on (or with, depending on your slant) post war deaths.

but how is that different than the Sudanese government who justified their initial actions by saying they were going after rebels who attacked the government?

It looks like its a around 5 times different eh?

BTW, I don't think there are thousands per day dying at the hands of the

Janjaweed right now. A lot of the people who are dying are dying of disease.

Yes, dying of disese because the miitias that the governement does nothing about have forced them out of their homes and into the wilderness where they've had to make their own camps, and then continued to harras and attack them there.

I agree that something needs to be done but perhaps the African Union may be better suited to fighting this war as they are more familiar with the area and with the people.

Probably not, africa is a big country, and the 'bad guys' are arabs (i'm not saying all of there arabs there are teh problem, not at all, just that the people directing and perpetrating this genocide are arabs) so I don't think the AU would have any special experience with it. Besides, they don't seem willing to intervene, so what choice is there? The US sent troops to Liberia, and that seemed to precipitate a resolution (no doubt, the UN troops had a great effect there too). I do have to wonder at just how much the UN can do now tho. From what I understand, a significant portion of bluehelmets are pakistanis, and I don't know how many troopers musharaff can spare now, nor if he can spend the political capital required to have muslim troops fight other muslim troops overseas.

Originally posted by Nygdan
No, they weren't insurgents. The military count was different, and I am talking about in the aactual course of the war proper. I had read it in Newsweek I beleive, the researcher had looked at the number of deaths in the public hospitals excluding the ones that served military members, and came out with a number around that.

Where'd you get that number by the way, just curious, I haven't been able to keep up on (or with, depending on your slant) post war deaths.

The 2,500 number came from Rumsfeld:

MSNBC
Air Force Gen. Richard B. Myers, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, on Tuesday summarized the fighting by noting that there has been a "spike in the casualties" not only of U.S. and Iraqi government forces but also of the insurgents, even as their opposition becomes more sophisticated. "The more aggressive the tactics of the insurgency, the greater their loss of human life," he said. Rumsfeld elaborated on that point, estimating that as many as 2,500 insurgents and criminals were killed in August.

Originally posted by AceOfBase
estimating that as many as 2,500 insurgents and criminals were killed in August.

Excellent, thats a bunch, its difficult to get sources here sometimes. Of course, there are often valid reasons for that. 25 hundred, wow. I wonder if there are any valid estimates of the insurgent population?

Originally posted by paperclip
The militias who are doing the killings in Darfur are not muslims.
No true muslim would ever kill civilians like that, just because they are black. Racism is strictly forbidden in islam.
These militia members burn mosques down, you go to hell for that, according to Islam.

They are well trained, brainwashed bunch of psychos, who are doing it for the money. Such scum can be found anywhere on Earth.

It has very little to do with religion, it is a racial conflict started and now ignored by sudanese goverment.
Also, it is a question of whos puppet the goverment is (all messed up goverments on this planet are somebody's puppets). Just follow the money, find those who support and control the sudanese goverment and you have those who are behind it.

1. (Koran 8:12) "Remember Thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the believers, I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them."

2. (Koran 2:216) "Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that you hate a thing which is good for you and it may happen that you love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, you knew not."

. (Koran 69:30-37) "It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. You desire the lure of this world and Allah desires for you the hereafter and Allah is Mighty, Wise.. Now enjoy what you have won as lawful and good and keep your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is forgiving, merciful."

The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet and alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom; Save those who repent before ye overpower them. For know that Allah is forgiving, merciful."

6. (Koran 22: 19-22) "These twain (the believers and the disbelievers) are two opponents who contend concerning their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them, boiling fluid will be poured down their heads. Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning."

7. (Koran 76: 4) "Lo! We have prepared for disbelievers chains, yokes and a blazing fire."



Islam is not racists? mabe in your fantasy world.

Koran 98:1-8
The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn for ever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures.

ops i forgot that one.

[edit on 18-9-2004 by Thinker]

Its only an excuse for men to take out there animal instincts on the weak.

If this was happening in europe it would have been stopped.

Originally posted by Thinker
Koran 98:1-8
The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn for ever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures.

ops i forgot that one.

[edit on 18-9-2004 by Thinker]

Cause that and nothing like it aren't in the bible, oh, as long as you take out revelations and the rest.

why do you think when ever something like this happens

it is always a plot?