University Defends Crackdown on Religious Groups

Vanderbilt University's nondiscrimination policy is being enforced to suppress a Christian student organization.

Many say this is a violation of free speech because the school says the organization requires Their leaders to hold specific religious beliefs.

The student organizations may be forced "underground" as a result of the policy.

Apparently last year a complaint was filed against a Christian fraternity at Vanderbilt based on sexual orientation.

There are arguments on both sides.

Christian student organizations at Vanderbilt University may be forced to go underground or meet in secret after university officials doubled down on a policy that bans student religious groups from requiring their leaders to hold specific beliefs, according to a law professor at the university.

Vanderbilt said their nondiscrimination policy ensure that campus groups are open to all students. But opponents said the ban restricts their freedom of speech and could force some nationally-known groups off campus.

“There are people on campus who are very threatened by the idea of religious freedom and they would like to create an environment where no one hurts anyone else’s feelings – unless it’s Christians,” said Carol Swain, a Vanderbilt law professor and the advisor to the Christian Legal Society.

The Christian Legal Society is one of four campus groups – including the Fellowship of Christian Athletes, Beta Upsilon Chi and Graduate Student Fellowship – that are currently in violation of the policy.

Swain told Fox News & Commentary that all four groups could lose their standing as registered student organizations.

This could be a combination of freedoms and financial conflict.

Registered groups recieve university funding.

University Defends Crackdown on Religious Groups


Is This a violation of freedom of Speech and Religion ??

Originally posted by xuenchen
Is This a violation of freedom of Speech and Religion ??

It doesn't appear to be. There is no right to discriminate. No one is stopping them from exercising their religion and speech. They're just demanding that they follow the school's non-discrimination policy.

“Our nondiscrimination policy applies equally to all registered student organizations,” Fortune said. “We’re simply saying if you are going to be a registered student organization and use the Vanderbilt name and university funding, and have the privileges afforded a registered student organization, then you need to comply with our nondiscrimination policy.”
...
He explained that their policy allows students to vote for whomever they like – they just can’t have written rules that would ban students from running for office if they don’t hold specific beliefs.

I support the university on this one.

Truthfully, if you're joining a Christian group in the South and you're gay or of another religion, then all I see is that you're looking for something to whine about.

I mean, seriously, we've got to draw the line on this PC crap somewhere. That line is common sense, and common sense should tell you that a Christian group in the South is likely going to be full of bigots.

Perhaps the student makeup is changing.

Maybe Vanderbilt is getting a more religiously diverse student population.

reply to post by AnIntellectualRedneck



Err I am new here, but I think you are asking for trouble with that post.


You are right about the other thing though. If you are trying to join a group, and your lifestyle conflicts with the beliefs of that group, you are asking for a fight.

Originally posted by xuenchen


Is This a violation of freedom of Speech and Religion ??

I don't think so, because Vanderbilt is a private institution. I think it is stupid of them to do this though. If people don't like a group's message, they should just stay away.

Originally posted by AnIntellectualRedneck
Truthfully, if you're joining a Christian group in the South and you're gay or of another religion, then all I see is that you're looking for something to whine about.

I mean, seriously, we've got to draw the line on this PC crap somewhere. That line is common sense, and common sense should tell you that a Christian group in the South is likely going to be full of bigots.

That was exactly my thought when I read the OP. Why would a homosexual even want to join that Group? That would be like me wanting to go to a Lesbian bar, I just wouldn't be welcomed and I get that.

EDIT: Another thing, why is this an Issue? Was there a homosexual that was demanding he be allowed to join?

Originally posted by Mcupobob

Originally posted by AnIntellectualRedneck
Truthfully, if you're joining a Christian group in the South and you're gay or of another religion, then all I see is that you're looking for something to whine about.

I mean, seriously, we've got to draw the line on this PC crap somewhere. That line is common sense, and common sense should tell you that a Christian group in the South is likely going to be full of bigots.

That was exactly my thought when I read the OP. Why would a homosexual even want to join that Group? That would be like me wanting to go to a Lesbian bar, I just wouldn't be welcomed and I get that.

EDIT: Another thing, why is this an Issue? Was there a homosexual that was demanding he be allowed to join?

edit on 2/1/2012 by Mcupobob because: (no reason given)

edit on 2/1/2012 by Mcupobob because: (no reason given)

yes,

it sounds like "sexual orientation was the issue.

Fortune said the university determined the Christian fraternity had discriminated against a student based on sexual orientation.

Only an atheist would join a christian group and then complain about it.

Originally posted by Mcupobob
Why would a homosexual even want to join that Group?

Why would anyone want to join the group? Because he's a Christian.

Was there a homosexual that was demanding he be allowed to join?

Vanderbilt University in Nashville, Tennessee, is making headlines after a Christian fraternity, Beta Upsilon Chi, asked an openly gay member to resign. Upon leaving the group, the young man filed a discrimination complaint and now college administrators are trying to figure out whether the campus organization violated the school’s nondiscrimination policy.

Source

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I highly doubt that he was Christian, and even if he was he had to know that the majority of Christian groups and Churches are bigotry against homosexuals? I'm not saying it right that they were discriminating, what I'm saying is why force try to force yourself into a group that clearly doesn't want you there?

reply to post by Mcupobob

Originally posted by Mcupobob
I highly doubt that he was Christian,

You have no way of knowing. Your suspicion is irrelevant.

,,, he had to know that the majority of Christian groups and Churches are bigotry against homosexuals?

Maybe. But that's really beside the point. Knowing that someone is going to discriminate against me is no reason to avoid the situation. Being a woman, when I go into auto parts and hardware stores, I get discriminated against, but I don't let it stop me. I still want the car part.

I'm not saying it right that they were discriminating, what I'm saying is why force try to force yourself into a group that clearly doesn't want you there?

Because the alternative is to accept being treated as a second class citizen. I'm sure the kid would appreciate your advice to just back down and not go after what he wants. Settle for joining the clubs that will take him instead of reaching for what he really wants and deserves... Sit in the back of the bus and be happy about it...

I beg to differ.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


He's not being forced to sit in the back of the a bus or drink form a gay's only drinking fountain. He's not being denied he's rights to free speech to vote or whatever, he's not being kicked out of the university or denied healthcare. He's just not being welcomed into the bigoted church group.

This has nothing to do with his rights, this has everything to do with him trying to force himself on to a group that was obviously only going to cause conflict and problems. Most likely to cause a stink.

There are somethings that are worth making a stink about, but this isn't one of them.

Being a woman, when I go into auto parts and hardware stores, I get discriminated against, but I don't let it stop me. I still want the car part.

Oh please, spare me the clichés.

reply to post by Mcupobob


What he makes a stink about isn't really up to you or me. That is what freedom is about. Being FREE to do something, even if someone else think it's stupid or don't like his reasons.

Most people don't really understand freedom.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

“Our nondiscrimination policy applies equally to all registered student organizations,” Fortune said. “We’re simply saying if you are going to be a registered student organization and use the Vanderbilt name and university funding, and have the privileges afforded a registered student organization, then you need to comply with our nondiscrimination policy.”
...
He explained that their policy allows students to vote for whomever they like – they just can’t have written rules that would ban students from running for office if they don’t hold specific beliefs.

I support the university on this one.

Hey... way to ruin the fun with your facts and such!!

Seriously, they're not targeting this Christian group, just asking them to adhere to and comply with their regulations and policies.

Sheesh..

reply to post by Mcupobob


Well said!
This is no different than me trying to join a Gay / Black / Hispanic or Womens group, then bitching when they all turn me down, because I am a straight white anglo-saxon male.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


A lot of us do understand freedom quite well. We just use it responsibly though and don't set up scenarios that will cause conflict, just to make a point and get attention.

Editing this to add a prime example of the craziness.

I work for a large corporation, that is about to start a well internally publicized "Inclusion and Diversity" week.
On the blurb about it, there are listed, a Black group, a Hispanic group, a Womens group and a Gay, Lesbian and Transgender group. Now forgive me if I am taking this the wrong way, but on the one hand they profess to foster equal rights and inclusion for all employees, yet they also allow little cliques to be set up to cater for sexual orientation, gender or ethnicity. Surely that is counter to the stated corporate line on treating us all the same? The irony seems to be lost on them.

I'd be tempted to try and join the Womens group or Hispanic group, just as a test, if it didn't have the possibility of being career limiting.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I never said he didn't have the right to make a stink, I just think its stupid situation and voicing my Opinion on the matter. Like you do on forums and such. Not that theres much I can do about anyways or would want to.

I guess we can agree to disagree.

Originally posted by Britguy
This is no different than me trying to join a Gay / Black / Hispanic or Womens group,

Are you gay, black, Hispanic or female? You're assuming this guy isn't a Christian because he's gay. That's just ignorance. There are many gay Christians.

Originally posted by Britguy
A lot of us do understand freedom quite well. We just use it responsibly though and don't set up scenarios that will cause conflict, just to make a point and get attention.

The only way to break down barriers and affect change is to be a nuisance.
This group was breaking University policy and a good way to highlight it was by doing exactly what this student did.


Perhaps women should not have made a fuss about not having the vote and so on...

Or maybe Rosa Parks should have just moved to the back of the bus?


I know, it's a bit of stretch right? But ya know, a struggle is a struggle and any injustice is worth highlighting I guess... it's how we get equality.