India to buy 126 Rafale jets for $ 10.4 billion

Finally the best Fighter Aircraft ever is about to be sold.



US Lobbying for once lost it on the case.

Not the best but the cheapest.

Uhhhhm, India has Russian-made stuff that is kinda incompatible with the French-made stuff. They'd have to import Air-to-air refueling tankers from the west, since I don't know if the air-to-air refueling capabilities of Indias current planes work with NATO planes.

Since India is 'upgrading' cross the Cold War lines I suspect this will cause problems in the logistical chain. They have MiGs and now they have Rafales, their own home-grown fighter is starting but seriously, buying from both sides of the Cold War was not a good decision, why have two sets of incompatible hardware?

Maybe if their enemies know the flaws of the MiGs or the Rafales, they switch, but India seems to be wasting money, not saving it. :/

reply to post by ROLLNROYCE


The Best. And the Cheapest.

Originally posted by ROLLNROYCE
Not the best but the cheapest.

That's the definition right there for India

reply to post by Skywatcher2011

Check your facts, dude.

____________________

Originally posted by Sachyriel
Uhhhhm, India has Russian-made stuff that is kinda incompatible with the French-made stuff.

Kinda ? Uhhhhm.

reply to post by Pr0sp3r0


You are getting ahead of yourself. No deal has been agreed yet:-

www.bbc.co.uk...

reply to post by alldaylong


You are getting ahead of yourself : read carefully the Opening Post, dude.

ETA > From your own very propagandist UK link :

While no deal has yet been agreed, Dassault's Rafale jets have been named as a preferred option, rather than the British-built Eurofighter Typhoon.
"The decision is obviously disappointing," David Cameron told MPs.

Go ahead with your crappy Euro(?)thing Thing !

The best fighter aircraft ever? No.

Even the Indians don't expect it to be 'their' best fighter aircraft ever. The Indian High End capability is their bespoke variant of the SU-30MKI and the replacement for that will be their variant of the PAK-FA.

This MRCA is to bulk out the middle capability of their fleet replacing lots of old MiG 21s. The bottom end is their indigenous fighter.

Both Typhoon and Rafale were selected as meeting the capability specification, Rafale won on price.

Originally posted by justwokeup
The best fighter aircraft ever? No.
(...)

Check your facts.

reply to post by Pr0sp3r0


Yes your right we build crap aircraft in the Uk don't we? That is why you Yanks had to buy the Harrier Jump Jet off us As a footnote..........No Yank made figter aircraft has ever been in service with the RAF, and never will be,

Ta Ta

Originally posted by justwokeup
The best fighter aircraft ever? No.
(...)

Let me help you a bit :

F/A-18E vs Rafale M.

1. Dimensions
F/A-18E / Rafale M
A. Length: 18.38 m / 15.27 m
B. Envergure: 13.68 m (9.32m repliee) / 10.80 m
C. Height : 4.87 m / 5.34 m
D. Wing Surface : 46.45 m2 / 45.70 m2

2. Masses:
F/A-18E / Rafale M
A empty : 13,865~14,007 kg / 9,900~10,460 kg
Internal Carburant: 8,060 litres / 5,750 litres
Max Ext Carburant : 9,080 litres / 9,375 litres
Ext. max. Charge: 8,050 kg+ / 9,500 kg
Max Uplift Mass .: 29,937 kg / 24,500 kg
Max Landing Mass .: 4,226 kg / 4,804 kg
Ext. Max Landing Mass .: 2,268 kg / 2,989 kg de nuit~ 3,444 kg de jour

3. Performances:
F/A-18E / Rafale M
Max speed., High altitude: 1.6 Mach+ / 1.8 Mach+
Max Speed., Low altitude: 15,240 m / 18,400 m
Acceleration (sea level): > 254 m/sec+ / > 305 m/sec
G-Limit flight commands : -3.0 ~ +7.5G / -3.2 ~ +9.0 G
G-limit cell : +10.0 G / > or = +11.0 G
Normal attack angle limit : 45~60 degrees / 32 degrees (sans FBW, Rafale can go up to 100 Deg.)
Wing charge in airborn fight : 398.3~401.3 kg/m2 / 291.0~303.3 kg/m2
Push/weight ratio in airborn fight, sea level : 1.05~1.08 / 1.10~1.15 with postcombution
Push/weight ratio in airborn fight, sea level : 0.67~0.69 / 0.73~0.77 with max. mil. (*9)

4. Passable distance :
F/A-18E / Rafale M
Internal fuel only : 2,346 km / > 2,100 km
F/A-18E with 3x 1800L ext. + 2x AIM-9: 3,054 km
Rafale M with 4x 6600L ext. et 8x MICA : 3,704 km

5. Fight Action Radius :
F/A-18E:
- 720 km in profile mission "hi-lo-lo-hi" with 2x 480 gallon ext. + 4x 1000 lbs + 2 AIM-9
- 855 km in interception mission with 3x 480 gal ext.
- 1230 km in profile mission "hi-hi-hi" avec 2x AIM-9 + 4x Mk.83 + 3x tanks ext + 2x pod sensors
- 800 km in escort with 2x AIM-9 et 2x AMRAAM
Fight endurance : 2h15min with 6x AAMand tanks ext.: 280km off carrier
Rafale M:
- 1,100 km with 3x 4,300L+ 4x MICA + 12x 1,000lb
- 1,480 km with 3x 6,000L+ 4x MICA + 4x 500Lb GBU-12 LGB
- 1,830 km with 2x CFT 2,300L + x3 5,700L + 2x SCALP-EG + 2x MICA
- CAP: More than 2 hours with 6x MICA + 3x 1,250L a t185km off carrier

6. Other :
F/A-18E / Rafale M
RCS frontale: 0.1 m2 / 0.1 to 0.3 m2
Pylones: 11 / 13
Price : 57 million USDs / 69.5 million USDs
Maintenance: 15 / 7 Man-hours for 1 flight hour.

reply to post by alldaylong


ERRRRM..... awkward. we have bought a few american aircraft including the F-4 and E-3 sentry etc.
aswell as the fact that we are soon to be getting the F-35C.

But you are right in saying that we have made some great aircraft like the:
English Electric
TSR.2
V - Bombers
VC-10
concorde
just to name a few

reply to post by Sachyriel


That's what governments mostly do; wasting money.

My government (Holland) is most likely to buy a JSF, while maybe it will be a good fighter, the money it cost, is IMO not worth it. And in my opinion it's better to have more fighters + the fact what does the enemy got?

So now they probably gonna buy 85 JSF and the price is rising every day, $160 million for 1 plane, and they are expensive to maintain and now the government is slashing spending everywhere but probaly will still buy them.

India looks smarter then my government in my opinion. 126 Rafale's: $10.4 billion or 85 JSf for $13,6 billion (or more..). Using/maintaining those 85 JSF (without war usage) also costs €1.15 billion/year.

So you could almost have 2 times more fighters for the same price, I would bet my money on that 100 rafale's will beat 50 JSF, though that would probaly never happen, fighting JSF but some old migs in some Middle East country, if ever. We only have done bombing missions, heck, they just should have bought the upgraded f-15 or just new f-16 which they have now, no need to train pilots and so on.

Now of course the US is another story, if they go bankrupt, its mostly because of the defence budget out of control.

Its nice that a third world country, still raking in the charity donations from the west can even contemplate jets over its own starving people.

Originally posted by EnigmaAgent
Its nice that a third world country, still raking in the charity donations from the west can even contemplate jets over its own starving people.

"Si vis pacem, para bellum."

pr0sp3r0
What is that all about? the rafael is not quite the best but it is certainly up there.

reply to post by ROLLNROYCE


Yes your right about the F-4 but the RAF had Rolls Royce Engines and British made avionics fitted:-

en.wikipedia.org...

The E-3 Sentry isn't a fighter ( I did say fighter airctaft)

As for British fighter aircraft you missed the most famous of all (And the best fighter of WW2 ) The Supermarine Spitfire.

reply to post by Pr0sp3r0


I'm not knocking the Rafale as a good aircraft. But a comparison with the F-18E is a little bit pointless. The F-18E was knocked out at an earlier stage as not meeting the capability requirement, along with the Gripen and the Mig-29 variant.

I simply took exception to the use of 'best ever'. Thats hyperbole.

None of the aircraft in the competition could take on an F-22 and thats no shame, they are not intended to. (although without knowing the classified performance of the F22 RCS and the classified performance of the proposed AESAs its hard to say how close it would be).

If you said 'India selects most cost effective fighter for their need' I wouldn't quibble.

Originally posted by ROLLNROYCE
pr0sp3r0
What is that all about? the rafael is not quite the best but it is certainly up there.

Check your facts, dude.