End alternative medicine degrees say scientists.

I am sure this will spark quite a debate in the tertiary educational system, between scientists, and the alternative medical community.

A group of more than 400 doctors, medical researchers and scientists are urging universities to close down alternative medicine degrees.
Almost one in three Australian universities now offer courses in some form of alternative therapy or complementary medicine, including traditional Chinese herbal medicine, chiropractics, homeopathy, naturopathy, reflexology and aromatherapy.

I am sure there are many many people on here, and world wide, that does indeed make use of alternative medicines, but to what degree? Many tend to use it only as a last resort, because there are always a stigma attached to it. As can be seen in this next piece.

The new group called “Friends of Science in Medicine” has written to vice-chancellors last week, warning that by giving “undeserved credibility to what in many cases would be better described as quackery” and by “failing to champion evidence-based science and medicine”, the universities are trashing their reputation as bastions of scientific rigor.

Article

I am of the opinion that if there is something seriously wrong, as in a serious heart condition, for example, i would still search for professional medical help. However, if it is something more benign, lets say, maybe a chest or muscle problem, i would be open to try an alternative approach.

I do not feel that by ending alternative medicines as a possible field of study for the practitioners thereof is of the best interest for everyone. Many people will say how they have been healed by alternative means.

Modern medicine, makes big advances, and thus i trust that they do know what they are doing. That being said, i am not sure about the advances in alternative healing methods, so my opinion might be biased.

vvv

Sorry, but by evidence based medicine, they mean profit based medicine. If they only allow us to use stuff that is fda approved, and the fda only gives approval for things with millions of dollars if research behind them, and people will only invest that on something synthetic that they can patent, then you are not getting the best most effective treatment. You are getting the most profitable, patented substance.
Many of our most serious and common problems are much more treatable (and curable) through natural means, such as diabetes. But going to a western trained md you will get nothing but a life sentence of injections and progressive debilitation, followed by amputations and death

reply to post by pexx421


Of course. However, like i stated, there are many illnesses, and disease, wich can only be treated with modern medicines, and antibiotics.
Aids for example, and TB, you need specialized medicine to help fight the virus. In some cases, alternative medicine is just not an option.

vvv

Western medicine can't seem to cure this horrid condition I've had every day for years.
I met a doctor in another country who told me what was used there, and yes, I'm trying it.

This is about competition. It's almost a religious thing- it's like we believe in our science and nothing but our science because our science is not based on belief but on solid evidence- and everyone else should too!

The problem is....there ARE problems with the science. lol. There are these nagging things called the placebo and the nocebo effect.

I told my spouse that since I respected this other system of medicine as being ancient and legitimate in it's own history, that even if it were just good for a placebo effect and it cured me, or helped me more than what western medicine can do for me, then I'm all for it.

reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep

there are many illnesses, and disease, winch can only be treated with modern medicines, and antibiotics. Aids for example, and TB, you need specialized medicine to help fight the virus. In some cases, alternative medicine is just not an option.

Really? neither are FDA approved drugs that can kill you, aids hasn't been cured even though i have my own theories on why they haven't.

there are many illnesses, and disease, winch can only be treated with modern medicines

No they cant, they can slow down the progress of the disease or illnesses but not treated with FDA approved drugs.

alternative medicine is just not an option.

For millions of alot people to them alternative medicine is the only option even Cubans are using alternative medicine.

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter


Mate, you are splitting hairs, and is quoting what i said out of context. Why? Are you deliberately trying to make this thread about me, and my beliefs, or maybe you did not understood what i said.

I said clearly TREATED, with modern medicines, not cured. There is a rather big difference, and i am well aware of that.

I do not discount alternative medicine as a viable alternative to modern medicine.

vv

It annoys me when people say Chiropractors are Quacks. I've seen my local Doctor on and off again for 20 years now. I even take my two oldest kids to see him once a month. I've never felt better and to be honest you don't realize how bad you are until you have someone who knows what he's doing examine your Spine.

Actually go to aliveandwell.org and you will hear from many people with aids perfectly healthy through natural means. Thing is, most often natural medicine is just being educated in how to life healthy and naturally, and cures diseases through giving our body what it truly needs.

sadly our science and studies are often dictated by politics and money, which is no science at all.

Further, let me add that while 100000 people die annually due to pharmaceuticals as prescribed, and doctors kill an estimated 300000 annually, deaths due to natural medicine annually are estimated at 0

reply to post by pexx421


I think your numbers might be a bit off mate.

Look at this. A world famous pioneer, Steve Jobs, and what he said regarding his battle with cancer:

Before he died, Apple co-founder Steve Jobs wanted to world to know that he deeply regretted "wasting time" on alternative medicine while trying to combat his pancreatic cancer. During a recent interview with 60 Minutes, Jobs' biographer Walter Isaacson said: "We talked about this a lot...He wanted to talk about it, how he regretted it....I think he felt he should have been operated on sooner... He said, 'I didn't want my body to be opened...I didn't want to be violated in that way.'

link



vvv

This really pisses me off.
How frickin dare they dictate who can get taught what!
I'm really keen at exploring alot of these 'alternative medicines/treatments'. I've run the whole gauntlet of mainstream 'proven' treatments, which while some have worked, many have not.
How dare they take away peoples choices/hopes when mainstream has failed them.
Bugger them, make it a freakin religion, give the ba**tards something to really bloody whinge about.(We all know how much profit there is in 'religion'!

reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep


"Alternative medicine" is an oxymoron anyway. Either it is medicine, or it is not...or one would think. Medicine, in this modern age is generally defined as:

1.
a. The science of diagnosing, treating, or preventing disease and other damage to the body or mind.
b. The branch of this science encompassing treatment by drugs, diet, exercise, and other nonsurgical means.
2. The practice of medicine.
3. An agent, such as a drug, used to treat disease or injury.
4. Something that serves as a remedy or corrective: medicine for rebuilding the economy; measures that were harsh medicine.

It is interesting to note that when lexicographers use this word in terms of "science" it is framed in terms of diagnosis, treatment, or prevention of disease, but out of this context, such as "rebuilding the economy" medicine suddenly becomes a remedy or corrective measure. In "science" medicine is not generally seen as a remedy or cure, but rather is treatment for a disease.

Remedy:

n. pl. rem·e·dies
1. Something, such as medicine or therapy, that relieves pain, cures disease, or corrects a disorder.
2. Something that corrects an evil, fault, or error.

Thus, under this paradigm, the cure for scurvy, which can include several herbs, but most assuredly includes vitamin C, is less a "medicine" and much more a "remedy".

The knowledge that consuming foods containing vitamin C is a cure for scurvy has been repeatedly rediscovered and reforgotten into the early 20th century.

Conversely, diseases such as the ever dubious ADHD has no cure, but is treated with psychotropic drugs such as SSRI's:

Do medications cure ADHD? Current medications do not cure ADHD. Rather, they control the symptoms for as long as they are taken. Medications can help a child pay attention and complete schoolwork. It is not clear, however, whether medications can help children learn or improve their academic skills. Adding behavioral therapy, counseling, and practical support can help children with ADHD and their families to better cope with everyday problems. Research funded by the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH) has shown that medication works best when treatment is regularly monitored by the prescribing doctor and the dose is adjusted based on the child's needs.

But these SSRI's that do not cure this dubious disease come with clear and present dangers:

Physical symptoms. Some patients taking SSRIs develop insomnia, skin rashes, headaches, joint and muscle pain, stomach upset, nausea, or diarrhea. These problems are usually temporary or mild or both. A more serious potential problem is reduced blood clotting capacity because of a decreased concentration of the neurotransmitter serotonin in platelets. Patients are at increased risk for stomach or uterine bleeding, and are more likely to require a blood transfusion during or after surgery. This risk is about the same as the risk of bleeding with NSAIDs (aspirin, ibuprofen, naproxen). If patients use SSRIs and NSAIDs at the same time, the risk more than doubles, so they must be combined with care.

Involuntary movements. These include tics, muscle spasms, dyskinesia (repetitive muscle movements), parkinsonism (rigid and trembling limbs, a shuffling gait, loss of fine motor control), and akathisia (compulsive restlessness), any of which may be accompanied by severe anxiety. Though rare, these symptoms are more likely in the elderly and in patients taking fluoxetine and citalopram, the SSRIs that remain longest in the body.

And most importantly:

Suicide. The risk that antidepressants will incite violent or self-destructive actions is the subject of renewed controversy. Suicidal thoughts (although no suicides) in patients taking SSRIs were first reported in 1990, shortly after the drugs were introduced. An FDA committee rejected the association, and most mental health professionals accepted that conclusion. But the issue was never completely settled.

Warning! This "medicine" may cause suicidal tendencies!!

No vreem, those were the statistics from 2009. One hundred thousand deaths (in the us) due to pharma meds, three hundred thousand deaths (3rd highest cause of death in us) due to medical error.

And jobs can say all he wants (or could have) but from what I understand he did not see an educated naturopathic doctor (300000 dollar education in the us), he drank some teas. I work in hospitals, and can tell you I know many people who regret getting the fda "approved" treatments. Guess his opinion is worth more though cause he has a lot of money, eh? Since he was rich, we'll call his dying opinion (alleged) evidence based medicine.

reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep


Actually if you look at the average life of someone who has pancreatic cancer you will see he lasted a lot longer than anyone else who had that type of cancer and then how long did it take for him to die when he started the modern medicine treatment?

Originally posted by pexx421
Sorry, but by evidence based medicine, they mean profit based medicine. If they only allow us to use stuff that is fda approved, and the fda only gives approval for things with millions of dollars if research behind them, and people will only invest that on something synthetic that they can patent, then you are not getting the best most effective treatment. You are getting the most profitable, patented substance.
Many of our most serious and common problems are much more treatable (and curable) through natural means, such as diabetes. But going to a western trained md you will get nothing but a life sentence of injections and progressive debilitation, followed by amputations and death

Correct.
Sounds like a bunch of scared $nake$ that are afraid they will have to downgrade from a 3 million dollar home to a 1 million dollar home.maybe..drive an Acura instead of a 60+ k Mercedes or BMW

So if you have a Cold or a Virus and you make Chicken Soup as an Alternative Treatment You can be a Criminal and Possibly a Terrorist . I know that sounds insane but we live in an Insane World. ah well .

IMO, this is just a case of getting rid of things that actually have cured people, and get rid of ill health, rather than just make money treating the symptoms and leaving the problem to grow if you stop taking their "medicine."

There are many examples of people being cured of cancer, type 1 Diabetes, AIDS, many things through natural means, but this loses a lot of money for big pharma. Even for things like antibiotics, there are more powerful antibiotics out there in natural foods, such as honey (and I mean proper honey, none of your supermarket crap).

This is also another stab at depopulation. If you can't heal yourself, but only treat your symptoms, then you're going to have to keep taking their poisonous medicines (not all are poisonous obviously, but many contain harmful substances) which will lead to their plans being fulfilled, many people dying off.

Again, that is my opinion according to the eugenics theory.

can't stand the way western medicine throw around accusations like 'psuedo-science' and 'quackery' which a lot of its own practices are based on in misleading the public and officials of the FDA with millions of dollars of financial backing for dodgy unethical trials and studies...

I think its an obvious move to discredit the opposition, maybe they're indeed threatened by paradigm shift that people are indeed moving toward the ancient techniques of using 'remedies' for curing ailments that worked well for thousands of years prior to modern medicine.. Only have to look at the statistics of how little mandatory immunizations had on mortality rates as this psuedo-science like to claim itself as a savior in protecting us from illness's that had already declined over 90percent... and possible induce mental illness's like Autism in the process which apparently natural Orthomolecular medicine (along with other mental illness) has helped to improve, when no western medicine can claim the same thing ad this practice has been bashed before it can come up with scientific evidence for its effectiveness....

Seems there are indeed so many testimonials for people advocating for natural medicine but it isn't enough for governments to take the methods seriously and back clinical studies (like they would for the sole purpose of discrediting it).maybe it depends on the attitudes of of the treating team and the patien, like the placebo effect that is largely ignored (unless its the explanation to 'scientifically' remove those from clinical studies).. its a shame they're influenced by fascist pigs who can't back their claims with scientific evidence as quoted in the article...

I don't see how a pill can replace chiropractors or massage therapists? .. Chinese medicine is very well respected I thought, I know it literally cured my allergies, have a lot of respect for it but can't afford to get a full work over because its a little expensive but I would think it was worth the money , same can;t be said for spending money on modern medicine only because its covered with Medicare or it is forced like psychiatric treatments (who's theories are indeed theories and psuedo-scientific, no proof to back up claims like chemical imbalance, like they treat ppl according to dopamine theory yet that is one of many theories including glutamate glycine theory because rats on PCP act psychotic [they probably still in the process of killing rats untill they get some results I assume, and when they put out a drug maybe it will kill 1 in 150 or so ppl to be seen as safe like Zyprexa so I hear] plus they totally ignore the patients testimony as to whether quality of life has improved, its about subjective observation as to whether they;re sedated enough for the complex thoughts and emotions to be non-existant and thoroughly ignore the cause of peoples problems, even going as far as to reject the causes for justifying the prescriptions of medicine that actually can be effectively treated with alternative measures, yet it is pushed out of the doctrines without any scientific testing[psychotherapy, detox, nutrient therapy] they done a good job in discrediting how valuable future research into illness can be) ... like my new medicine causes insomnia so when I get a bit of insomnia they push up the dose until i'm a zombie, on a low dose so shouldn;t complain but it isn't the answer to sleeping problems they assumed to be caused by erratic thinking with nothing to back it up... the new # gives me clenched jaw



Western medicine is a FRAUD Hypocritical (Hey don;t they have an oath to Hypocr.... or something, strange and ironic.)....full of conflicts of interest and the profiteering is more then evident.... evil scum



I Have more respect for Chinese medicine and its theories then I do for modern medicine which has basically no logical theory that explains the human organism and endocrine system etc western medicine doesn't understand our organisms adaptability and substances that have preventative qualities that overall enhance life . pretty bad that these modern medicine quacks with super large paychecks from Pharma companies running the universities can attempt to disvcredit the effectiveness of things like ginseng for preventing illness and reducing stress, Pharma can't possibly recreate something as nourishing as ginseng, they barely understand what nourishment is

Mainly wanted to subscribe to come back later
Really scary to think these pigs have credibility from the government level, they're probably just puppets for the Pharmacuetical industries (like they aren't making a fortune enough already) and use the illusion of scientific credibility to cast out the opposition, that's all I can think is behind it... never heard of it having a death toll like modern medicine or people being debilitated by it.... It stands in the way of itself in inhibiting natural and effective treatments like those for cancer.. Maybe because folks like Rockefeller has too much financial interest in the mainstream treatments and outlaw the effective less deadly treatments..

BS



ETA; Hey I apologize for my not very good use of the English language, grammar logical order to things. I blame it on Canadian Club and Anti-Psychotics prescribed for my experience with a sleep disorder, and ignorance to spiritual problems--- fallen angels, telepathy etc---modern medicine has no idea-- so I was getting strange signals when I was severely sleep deprived, no voices or anything I knew it was in my head, but the quacks used everything I said to confirm a label.. they dont listen and would rather label someone with the DSM for normal experience including substances cofffee and pot (I know pot is pretty radical, maybe I got an allergy or something but does't take long to get over it without the need for Pharma poisons ..... B deficiency magnesium zinc...... good sleep and food was all i needed but now I got a label and the government forces toxic drugs that cause premature death and loss of quality of life...

Maybe I've always had length things to say about stuff...maybe I'll come back to edit it to make more sense....
first place I've been able to express my experience, not done yet.... joined on my birthday........

Maybe they'd deny that lavender is relaxing?? maybe it isn't worth proving scientifically that lavender is relaxing although there might be a chance things like that could be effectively used for anxiety disorders... they might just be threatened that Alternative treatments may get scientific credibility....Maybe they just don't understand traditional medicine, and fear it.....
Maybe Is it only scientific to them if a synthetic version of lavender can be patented and millions spent on marketing in getting FDA approval with 'science' used to give the illusion of its effectiveness?? its also ati-fungal pain releaving but I would need a naturapath to confirm all its uses, there is so much we take for granted that can be used as natural remedy .... these guys want that to end I guess...

the "friends of science in medicine" is laughable, I despise the way these con artists make such fictional names for themselves, make way they're on a noble crusade!! They shoud be death slapped from a higher power for the intent to destroy our health options for the sole benefit of Big Pharma and probably making a good pay check out of it ... I hope maybe they'll scientifically test eating each-others feces as a treatment for whatever debilitating disease they have although I shouldn't joke they've probably tried things like that as remedy , I'm sure medicine is full of ridiculous theory they've barely grown out of and its ethics are definitely questionable especially how it has infiltrated the government and now they pulling things like this and CODEX... Now its about toxic poison as apposed to intelligence using nature for health..

reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep


i would beleive it, even at ATS you can't talk about such things ( alt sub forum is closed after major bullying by mods, any comments concerning will be deleted by ATS and never seen )