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Chem trails photographed tonight with long exposure over Northern Austin

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posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 09:55 AM
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reply to post by network dude
 


You miss a lot of good threads and documentation, don't you?




posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 10:06 AM
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reply to post by Witness2008
 


I have yet to see anything but guesses and poor science in regards to chemtrails. I know the debunkers (myself included) will try to find ways to prove your side wrong, but if there was anything to your side, we wouldn't be able to. that is the part you just don't get.

I see my questions were too hard. Sorry about that.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 10:31 AM
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Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Witness2008
 


I have yet to see anything but guesses and poor science in regards to chemtrails. I know the debunkers (myself included) will try to find ways to prove your side wrong, but if there was anything to your side, we wouldn't be able to. that is the part you just don't get.

I see my questions were too hard. Sorry about that.


I have seen ample evidence. So have you. But the game is over once the debunkers acknowledge the evidence. I have posted several links to evidence over the years, only to have debunkers cherry pick that same evidence of motive, intent and execution. I have watched you and others set the rules for the chemtrail debate game, then when those rules did not shut us down, you all change the rules. I don't play by your rules. You wanna prove us wrong? Be my guest and show us the proof that it is not happening.

You are out numbered and out researched. I can only speak for myself here....I don't care what you think. I care about what I know.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 10:38 AM
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reply to post by SurrealisticPillow
 


Nothing is going on in the skies . Planes fly in different directions , hence the criss-cross effect.
Why waste your time perpetuating a myth ?
Once you learn a little about the effects of atmospheric pressure you will become less paranoid .....Trust me



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 10:43 AM
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reply to post by dawnprince
 


You may want to back track over some of the links that have been posted by members here that have been researching this subject. You may then want to think again about telling people what they may or may not be seeing.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 10:58 AM
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reply to post by Uncinus
 


I appreciate your response. I am able to keep these jets within my visual field at all times, because, as I wrote, I can see a long way out here. The air is usually quite dry and clear. I have even watched them with binoculars and did not lose visual contact.

They spray a trail, stop, do a slow long turn, come back around and do it again. As far as the "dotted line" pattern, I have seen this done in the height of summer when the temps are close to 100 degrees F and it is dry as a bone for 300 miles in every direction, so I am failing to see the "invisible clouds" or "ice crystals" scenario. It is a desert out here, and often the rain doesn't reach the ground because it is too dry for the drops to last until they land.

There are times when there are high cirrus clouds out here and there is cold air aloft, and the jets leave plain old contrails as they pass overhead. That doesn't bother me. What bothers me is the flying around in circles and criss-crossing the sky with trails that look and behave strangely. There would be no reason for these jets to circle around here because they'd just be wasting gas, there's no airport for hundreds of miles.

There are, however, air force bases, but they are around 200 miles away.

I do not believe the jets that leave chemtrails are passenger jets. Passenger jets leave contrails when conditions are right in the atmosphere. Everybody understands and accepts this.

Here is what bothers me: I have seen contrails, and seen how they dissipate...somewhat evenly. If they evaporate slowly, they get wispy and spread out. Not a big deal. I have also seen what I believe to be chemtrails, sprayed at lower altitudes, in which the jet starts a spray and then stops it and continues on. With binoculars, I can see that the spray comes out bilaterally from both sides of the plane. The plumes left behind are fluffy and so bright white that it almost hurts my eyes to look at them. The plumes stay put and there is never an evaporation, no matter how hot and dry it is. When they dissipate, it is in a "blobby" way, like putting a squirt of food coloring in a glass of water. These blobs, or fingers, of chemtrail take FOREVER to stretch out, they hold their shape for an abnormally long time.

All the old farmers who grew up out here on the caprock agree that this is not normal. They have grown up outside and have a habit of checking the sky because they don't use technology to check the weather all day long, they use their eyes and ears.

I have plenty of time to observe the sky, and it dominates the landscape out here.

To me, the chemtrail thing is a lot like the JFK assassination. No matter how much new information comes to light, the standard story is that Oswald was the lone assassin, and there is no way our government would do such a thing, so if you believe in a conspiracy, you're a nut.

Ok then, I'm a nut. But I'm an observant nut, and so far, there has been no explanation presented that satisfactorily explains what I have been noticing. I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't wish to be nasty about this, but if I'm wrong, no harm done. If I'm right, we're all being poisoned, for whatever purpose, without our consent or knowledge, and this has no place in a free and just society.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by waynos
 

My humble apologies. Unfortunately there is this thing called a time zone here, and it is very different to your one.

But your points seem to be the same ones we hear so often:

"If you mean contrails then yes..."

"But we have known and observed contrails since 1900 and whatever so what we are seeing now MUST be contrails too

"Et al..."

No one has said contrails do not exist, but turning chem into con at every point of the discussion is also counter-productive.

We may be looking at it all wrong, but at least we are looking at it.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 11:33 AM
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Who cares?

I would then assume your quest to stop "chemtrails" you all are also out to end pollution, dumping, high emissions, ect. that IS a problem.

Many of the chemtrail people, use the phrase, "just look up!" but I can not just look up, when I look down onto our world that is already being destroyed by many other factors, other than "KILLER CLOUDS"

Clean up the world around your feet!
Lets focus on what we CAN do!




posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 11:47 AM
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reply to post by MoosKept240
 


I understand what you're getting at, and all of those problems listed should be addressed. However, you make the assumption that there is nothing we can do to stop chemtrailing. I disagree. If you believe that we are being chemtrailed, for whatever reason (I think it is geo-engineering, my husband believes it to be shielding from an over-active sun), our tax dollars are paying for it.

If we as a society are paying for something, we deserve to be told what it is, why it is being done, and what the exact cost is, not only to our treasury, but to our health and safety.

Too many times our government has outright lied to us and denied things that later proved to be true. It has become a monster that does what it wants, when it wants, with our money, and we have no say. This is blatantly wrong, and as I stated in my last post, has no place in a free and just society.

If we can't do anything about chemtrailing, then America is toast. We are nothing but cattle in a holding pen, cash cows whose only worth is in what the government / corporate fascism can squeeze out of us. They can do what they want, and all we can do is stand there and moo.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 11:57 AM
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reply to post by LightSpeedDriver
 


I'm not sure how time zone differences can be to blame for you posting responses after mine and still not addressing the points in them, but no matter, I accept your apology.


However, when you write;


"If you mean contrails then yes..."


I did say this, but I did not say;


"But we have known and observed contrails since 1900 and whatever so what we are seeing now MUST be contrails too "


Even without the emphasis of the caps. What I actually said was;


If the trails in the sky look and behave exactly as we know contrails do, and exist at heights and in conditions where we know contrails do, then it is reasonable to conclude they are contrails.


There is no 'must' about it. Discussions wont ever move forward if one side has to continually go back and correct the others misinterpretations. That this always happens in these threads does make me wonder if it is symptomatic of why they believe in chemtrails in the first place, the lack of comprehension?

Is that unfair? Or could it be deliberate misrepresentaton? If it is only an error, then fair enough, anyone can make a mistake, but it does seem to happen too often for coincidence. Generally speaking.

So, at last, back to the topic. You don't think I am looking? Maybe you missed my own observations. In fact I've been looking today, successfully identified online all but two aircraft I watched, but one was an RAF C-17 so I wasn't surprised, but the other looked to be a commercial 767/777 type with a familiar livery, so I was wondering if PB or someone could explain why it might not appear on flightradar 24?,

However, they are the same planes on the same routes that I observe when they do leave long lingering trails. Having been watching planes for 40 years, and thus also the sky they fly in, do you think there might be a possibility, no more than that, that I have learned to understand what I'm looking at in a little more detail than you have? Or even just that I was used to seeing long, lingering, spreading trails many years before the chemtrail operation was claimed to have begun? The only difference was that back in the 1970's you tended to be able to guess that the thinner lingering trails would be from 707 or DC-8 types and the thicker ones would be 747's Tristars etc (there were others but these were the main ones) whereas now a thick spreading trail could be coming from anything in airline service. That's why there are more of them.

Did you miss the part where I readily admit chemtrail could, and would be done, if there was a reason that benefitted the PTB?

Ever since I read of chemtrail theory, when I joined this board 8 years ago, I've had an interest in it, and yet, despite all the promises of big revelations by such as carnicorn etc, and despite all the wealth of genuine documents that members have posted on here, that have been fascinating reading in the main, and despite my own continued observations, there is still nothing to show that chemtrailing happens except the same, repetitive cries of 'we're being hammered with spraying today' because the sky is full of persisting spreading contrails and people don't know what they are.





edit on 1-2-2012 by waynos because: removed some unnecessary bollocks, the mods are right



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 12:13 PM
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reply to post by waynos
 

I guess you never followed too many chemtrail discussions on ATS then. It is an oft-cited fact used to "debunk" the possible existence of chemtrails. You may not have said it, someone surely will or has though.

As for following the discussion and posting responses, it was late, well, early in fact. Don't take it personal!


As for one word in caps, it's called emphasis. Thanks


You are here to answer our questions? That's just facepalmingly bad Mr Self-Professed Expert.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by FissionSurplus
reply to post by MoosKept240
 



If we can't do anything about chemtrailing, then America is toast. We are nothing but cattle in a holding pen, cash cows whose only worth is in what the government / corporate fascism can squeeze out of us. They can do what they want, and all we can do is stand there and moo.


I fear we are already there.

I see your point, and is very valid.

But to me, at least, all this energy and time, is focused ONLY on proving whether or not it even exists.
No one can deny, pollution/emissions exists in our world today.
I myself probably contribute greatly, being a mechanic and all. But it still makes me sad to think, all this fighting and arguing will go without notice.

I have always thought that "contrails" or "chemtrails" but mostly the contrail part of it, is that there is emissions of some sort. I mean it is burning fuel. However efficient there is STILL emissions. And with all the contrails of patterns and sorts, there is lots and lots of traffic in the air. Which will produce a whole lot of a small amount of emissions, which turns out to be, a whole lot of emissions.

I do not fly, so for me it's a no brainer. Just stop flying!!! Save the planet!



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 12:25 PM
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***ATTENTION**

STOP discussing members, making off topic posts and any and all T&C violations. Your post will be actioned and you are subject to possible posting ban.

As a reminder ALL MEMBERS: We expect civility and decorum within all topics



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 12:29 PM
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reply to post by greeneyedleo
 

Sorry, I may have been guilty of that too but it is just so exasperating. Maybe we need a new forum and a forum name change. Chemtrail believers and chemtrail debunkers. That way both sides can discuss their opinions in threads dedicated to discussion rather than silly point scoring and snide remarks thinly veiled with a poor attempt at sarcasm.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by Witness2008

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Witness2008
 


I have yet to see anything but guesses and poor science in regards to chemtrails. I know the debunkers (myself included) will try to find ways to prove your side wrong, but if there was anything to your side, we wouldn't be able to. that is the part you just don't get.

I see my questions were too hard. Sorry about that.


I have seen ample evidence. So have you. But the game is over once the debunkers acknowledge the evidence. I have posted several links to evidence over the years, only to have debunkers cherry pick that same evidence of motive, intent and execution. I have watched you and others set the rules for the chemtrail debate game, then when those rules did not shut us down, you all change the rules. I don't play by your rules. You wanna prove us wrong? Be my guest and show us the proof that it is not happening.

You are out numbered and out researched. I can only speak for myself here....I don't care what you think. I care about what I know.


your whole premise is based on an incorrect theory. Chemtrails could exist. I believe there are aircraft built for the specific purpose of spraying liquid something into the air. I don't trust the government. I know the government has sprayed something into the air before.

But to look at a line in the sky and say "Hey Gomer, that there is one of them chemtrails! hand me my beer" is asinine. There is no earthly way anyone can look at a cloud or contrail and determine the chemical makeup of it. And as has been proven he so frickin many times, contrails can and do persist in the right conditions. Once you all can except that, you might be able to get others to listen to you. Until then, most will just think you are a nut job.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 12:32 PM
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reply to post by LightSpeedDriver
 


You made me go back and read my post again, I have already edited in more info and removed a sarky joke that may not travel well over the internet, but no, you are once again reading things into my words that I'm not even saying. What the F?

Please show me where I wrote about this;


You are here to answer our questions? That's just facepalmingly bad Mr Self-Professed Expert.


And I will remove or amend it. I am no expert and do not claim to be and am not offering to answer anybodies questions (unless they are ones I happen to know the answer to and they want me to try, as anybody would)

It seems frustratingly hard to get into an open discussion on here without people getting snarky or making up their own meanings. Very sad.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 12:32 PM
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reply to post by MoosKept240
 

I tried the no-fly thing but sometimes (I would guess more so for peeps living in huge places like the US) it is the only way to get there when you need to. I forget the figures now, but it was listed on internet, how much fuel a plane uses compared to other forms of transport and the figure is just mind boggling, depending on distance. Tons and tons of fuel for just a few or few hundred passengers.

Here's an interesting little tidbit from Wikipedia though.

Ingestion of kerosene is harmful or fatal. Kerosene should never be used to get rid of hair lice as it can cause burns and serious illness. A kerosene shampoo can even be fatal if fumes are inhaled.

Source

I did not know the above....



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 12:43 PM
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reply to post by waynos
 

Off-topic pointless post

edit on 1/2/12 by LightSpeedDriver because: nvm

ETA Thanks to the OP, you tried at least.


Peace out
edit on 1/2/12 by LightSpeedDriver because: ETA



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 12:47 PM
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Originally posted by LightSpeedDriver
reply to post by MoosKept240
 


Here's an interesting little tidbit from Wikipedia though.

Ingestion of kerosene is harmful or fatal. Kerosene should never be used to get rid of hair lice as it can cause burns and serious illness. A kerosene shampoo can even be fatal if fumes are inhaled.

Source

I did not know the above....



I did.

When I was an apprentice aircraft mechanic one of my colleagues sat on the top of a 44 gallon drum without noticing a small puddle of kerosene on it - it soaked through his overalls and clothes and the resulting burns in his tender parts had him walking funny for a week or 2!

edit on 1-2-2012 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 01:02 PM
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reply to post by LightSpeedDriver
 


So, would you care to address the on topic points I wrote about, or even put your own side? I even offered to remove something I didnt even write in order to make peace and get back on topic, you can't say fairer than that.



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