Chem trails photographed tonight with long exposure over Northern Austin

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posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 11:12 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


Ignorance would be believing that you saw these "persistent contrails" in the 60's all the time.

It would also be that others saw them, funny i have yet too meet one single person who has seen them persist.

I never saw them where I live, and noone else did either... I recall watching in amazement the ones that WOULD last for perhaps 2 minutes,, wishing the other ones would too, staring for hours, days, years...

I live near 2 airports , and have watched, been apart of many airshows on the groundside, NEVER SAW ONE AT ALL...

And now you say that twice as many planes are in the skies,, how would that account for the 500 times as many CON-trails that we see now, even if we DID see any ,, before.




posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 01:19 AM
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reply to post by miniatus
 


You say these are nothing but contrails, yet you say there are no vapours?

A contrail, is a vapour trail. A vapour trail is a contrail. If t here were no vapours a trail of any kind would cease to exist.

The thing is that people assume chemtrails don't exist because it isn't a dictionary word... all i can tell you is a trail left behind by some form of chemical in the sky (whether it be the plain byproduct of jet fuel or something more hazardous and secretive), it essentially becomes a chemical-trail. Hence the reason for the name chemtrail.

There's no denying chemtrails exist. We see them everyday and whether its simply the remains of jet fuel in the sky, it lingers for ages, a hell of a long time and brings the question of how this can be effecting weather patterns. Intentional or not, there is visible evidence of pollution in the sky every day.



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 01:44 AM
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Originally posted by GrinchNoMore
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


Ignorance would be believing that you saw these "persistent contrails" in the 60's all the time.


When did I say that?

They were uncommon, and they started in 1968 when the local airline started flying it's first jets on domestic services.

WE noticed them because they were unusual and new.


It would also be that others saw them, funny i have yet too meet one single person who has seen them persist.

I never saw them where I live, and noone else did either... I recall watching in amazement the ones that WOULD last for perhaps 2 minutes,, wishing the other ones would too, staring for hours, days, years...

I live near 2 airports , and have watched, been apart of many airshows on the groundside, NEVER SAW ONE AT ALL...


Why would you think you see them near airports necessarily?



And now you say that twice as many planes are in the skies,, how would that account for the 500 times as many CON-trails that we see now, even if we DID see any ,, before.


What is the data that says there ar e500 tims as many contrails?



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 01:47 AM
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Originally posted by HIWATT

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

Originally posted by HIWATT

If that's true why are you all spending so much time trying to disrupt discussions where people who DO NOT feel that way, are just trying to get to the bottom of something they believe to be true??


Why to deny ignorance of course.



That's the problem.

YOU see it as ignorance. Others do not.



Absolutely - and yet they have no credible evidence, no commercial aircraft fitted with strange apparatus that might be used to spray, no whistle blowers, no chemicals, no fuel samples, no bills of lading, no strange tanks on aircraft.

And all the observed phenomena are consistent with contrails......and they don't see that as being knowledge - they'd rather go with hucksters spreading fear and paranoia.

And in some quarters they are using the language of violence - saying they need to buy missiles to shoot aircraft down, kill pilots, etc.

I sure hope this ignorance doesn't get someone killed!!
edit on 2-2-2012 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 02:14 AM
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reply to post by robwerden
 




Planes flying at night tut tut, your chemtrails are CONTRAILS do none of you people actually ever fly in a plane I suggest thats the first thing you do, then explain why regular passenger planes leave trails



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 02:24 AM
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Originally posted by GrinchNoMore
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


Ignorance would be believing that you saw these "persistent contrails" in the 60's all the time.

It would also be that others saw them, funny i have yet too meet one single person who has seen them persist.

I never saw them where I live, and noone else did either... I recall watching in amazement the ones that WOULD last for perhaps 2 minutes,, wishing the other ones would too, staring for hours, days, years...

I live near 2 airports , and have watched, been apart of many airshows on the groundside, NEVER SAW ONE AT ALL...

And now you say that twice as many planes are in the skies,, how would that account for the 500 times as many CON-trails that we see now, even if we DID see any ,, before.


Well I can say that as a young boy in the 60's I saw persistent contrails, I have 3 main airports within a 35 mile radius of were I live.

There are about 50-70,000 commercial flights every day round the world, in the 60's I could count the number of people who had flown in one hand now I can count the people who haven't.

Most of my neighbours have a least one holiday abroad each year many have two. Now although I am not flying abroad this year (its a cruise in the summer for me) I may still have a dozen or so business flights.

Air traffic has increased many times since the 60's so have the CONTRAILS.

Why don't you watch this and educate yourself a little 24 hours of flights in 60 seconds

edit on 2-2-2012 by wmd_2008 because: (no reason given)
edit on 2-2-2012 by wmd_2008 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 02:32 AM
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Chemtrailers are more irritating to me than the flat-earthers.

You are the ones presenting a conspiracy/incredible claim, so you are the ones who are subject to providing it with incredible evidence.

If you actually stood outside and watched, with a Google Earth flight tracker (free) plug-in, you would be able to track, identify and follow EVERY SINGLE aircraft creating a cruise contrail that you see.

You are only spotting the results of varying atmospheric conditions. How many contrail videos exist (millions!) which show both long and short, lingering or just long and quick contrails? Search youtube.

From the flight deck, lingering contrails can be used to help identify aircraft spotted on the TCAS (traffic collision avoidance system). Do you think that I, or any current pilot in the sky right now, is either spilling chemicals into the atmosphere (à la conspiracy) or following an aircraft doing so and thinking 'Wait, that isn't right - that guy's contrail looks too long. We should call ATC and tell them we have a rogue plane in the airspace'.

It's utterly ludicrous and, as I said, you're all more irritating than flat-earthers, to whom I say - Explain magnetic deviation, polar flight tracking and heading change on east/west flights. You can't, unless the earth isn't flat - which it is not.

I wish I had a choice of planet, because it wouldn't be this one.
edit on 2-2-2012 by DB340 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 08:28 AM
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reply to post by DB340
 

Sheeple irritate me, but I don't go to their Lions Club meetings or their knitting classes and try to convince them that the world is any different than they perceive it to be.
Partisan Democrats and Republicans irritate me, but I don't go to their meetings and caucuses and tell them they are fools for continually voting for corporate candidates that will only fulfill the wishes of their sponsors.
You come here and throw your feces on anyone that thinks differently than you, without addressing any of the reasons that people may have for having a difference of opinion. Like the perpetual scoffers, you require that you are led to the scene of the crime and shown the victim, the motive and how the crime was executed and by whom. Thanks for your input, not.



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 08:35 AM
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Are you telling me that my comments are out of place on a forum which encourages discussion, discours and to deny ignorance? It's like being laughed at for wanting to buy bread in a bakers!

My opinions? Watching contrails being formed using a flight tracker by your side will prove to anybody, anywhere in the world, that every single contrail is from a commercial aircraft, with paying passengers, going from one normal place to another, with normal Jet A fuel onboard, coming from normal engines with normal crews.

This is not an opinion. It's a fact, and I encourage anybody to prove that any aircraft they see is not one which can be tracked on a free flight tracker. Most of these people are in the states and all trackers follow all flights in the states.

My opinion is that mixed vanilla and strewberry milkshakes are the most wonderful tasting drinks, but I won't enforce that on people. However, chemtrails are nonsense, and the people who 'believe' in them have every chance to prove themselves wrong, for themselves, by tracking the bloody flights flying above their heads with a tracker!!!

This website really is the pits, sometimes.



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 08:53 AM
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reply to post by DB340
 




his website really is the pits, sometimes.

Much like the planet I suppose. It must be quite a challenge to communicate from such a high perch.
Note that you really haven't offered anything to this thread. I will try to help you.
Perhaps you could actually read the following, and so thoroughly debunk it, that I will grovel at your almighty power to educate the unwashed masses.
The holmestead
It is entirely possible to create and spray chemtrails, and there can exist very good reasons (in some minds) for doing so.
Enjoy the planet, you aren't going anywhere.



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 09:33 AM
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I know it's possible, but photos posted are always of commercial aircraft flying set jetways and can be tracked for free. If anything else can't destroy the 'secret military spraying' idea, I don't know what can. Nothing, most likely.

Whilst I'm not going anywhere, I may as well stay and fight and encourage people to engage brain. All photos (and some laughable videos I've seen) are contrails from commercial airliners.

As for your link. I was semi-skim-reading it and realised this sentence: "Granted, if we do nothing 89% of all species will go extinct and humanity stands a high chance of not surviving through two more generations (or less). However the idea of 2 billion casualties death and permanent injury is not easy to swallow either."

This was written when? The beginning says Sept. 2004. The guy, rather obviously, died before then. So, he wrote that 'two generations or less'. How long is a generation? From Google searches, it appears to be 29 years nowadays, up from 200 and 25. I think that's about fair. People having kids later.

So, 50-60 years will be 2050 ish. 89% of species will be extinct (do you realise how much that is?) and humanity will be gone! Done and dusted. Do you think that's likely? With all the 'good' people out there doing things in the fields of medicine and general safety on roads/air etc., I fail to see that likely. So I am not really convinced that reading it all will be worthwhile.

This one is amusing: 7. Why are UFO's and disappearing spray planes reported? He doesn't know. That's because it's a completely ridiculous question and shows the kinds of people showing interest in this stuff.

Ah, now he says this just a few paragraphs on: "Without spraying we have a 90% + chance of becoming extinct as a species with in the next 20 years." So my guestimate (from his own numbers) was 30 years too far ahead! In 2012 Dec., we will die but if not, 2020 ish is the next date. Nevermind.

*I'm reading!*

"The majority of flights are short range and do not require the full capacity of an airliners fuel tanks. Any adaptations needed could easily be done during routine maintenance, and could be easily explained away as being a modification for safety and-or pollution controls."

Pure nonsense. Absolute, utter nonsense. Have you heard of pilot's doing walk-arounds before the flight? Any extra weight would be bizarre to an experienced pilot. Or are the flight crews in on it too?

I might slightly believe the military would buzz around for weather/research reasons, but they would not be doing it so high as to create chemtrails. Contrails that are seen in the sky are commercial aircraft trails flying normal people in normal planes to normal places and can all be tracked online, live. If the military want to go out at night and buzz around, I might consider that possible, but on the scale of these photos posted, and all that I just read, it's impossible, and that is not an opinion, it's just observal, common-sense-based logical fact.



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 09:35 AM
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reply to post by DB340
 


You will have to get used to get that kind of reply on here conspiracy believers hate when you pee on their parade.

You gave him/her info on how to track flights that will bug them because its real evidence and not faked pictures of planes with tanks on board or a misunderstanding of why CONTRAILS form in the first place.



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 09:50 AM
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reply to post by DB340
 

It doesn't surprise me that you skimmed it. You really have no idea what the material is about.
These climate scientists came to those conclusions, right or wrong, and the spraying program was initiated to combat what they foresaw the climate change would bring.
You criticize their conclusions and their predictions as if they are my own. Funny.
If you actually read it and comprehend what was written, then come back and we can discuss.



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 09:52 AM
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reply to post by wmd_2008
 

No one doubts that planes fly in patterns.
This shallow comprehension amazes me considering whom are claiming the high ground in this "debate".



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 10:34 AM
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It looked just the same in northern OK this morning. Never in my life have I seen these checkerboard trails above my little town. I grabbed some photos that I'll have to upload later today. I think it's a bit odd that they're predicting severe storms for this evening and they're checkerboarding us this morning. Hmmm . . .



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 11:46 AM
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Get the Google Earth plug-in for flight tracking and show me ONE contrail which is not tracked.

I put a gun to my head that you won't.

Here is a head-start: flightwise.com...

Good luck.



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 11:50 AM
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reply to post by klhbrown
 


Perhaps you have not been reading the entire thread? The multiple responses here, and in many other so-called "chemtrail" threads either?


I think it's a bit odd that they're predicting severe storms for this evening and they're checkerboarding us this morning. Hmmm . . .


You say there are forecasts for approaching weather, and storms? Well, the existence of the contrails that precede the approaching change in weather is for the EXACT same reason that other high-altitude cirrus clouds will sometimes also do the same thing....and this happens in Nature everywhere, whether an airplane flies by or not.


Cirrus clouds are the most abundant of all high level clouds. They are made out of ice and are thin, wispy clouds blown in high winds and gusts into long streamers. These feathery clouds usually spread across the sky. Streaming cirrus clouds are also called mare's tails. Although single or maybe a few cirrus clouds can indicate that there is fair weather coming, a gradually increasing cover of cirrus clouds may show that an approaching warm front is coming. By observing the movement of cirrus clouds you can tell from which direction the weather is coming. When you see cirrus clouds, it usually indicates that a change in the weather will occur within 24 hours.


How to Forecast the Weather Using Clouds

You can do your own searches online, to find many other sites that explain the concept of clouds, and weather, and weather changes.

Mariners have been using clouds, and sky changes, to predict weather for thousands of years......


Contrails that are formed, and seem to be a "grid" are simple to understand, also. Let's pick a place in Oklahoma for an illustration --- what about Oklahoma City?:

Here is the High Altitude Aeronautical Chart for your area, centered on Oklahoma City

This is used by all flights above 18,000 feet...up to a maximum of 60,000. Commercial air traffic is usually from 30,000 to 41,000 feet.

The heavy black lines show all of the established Jet Airways that are used for routing flights.....however, airplanes can fly on any heading and any direction, as needed during any typical day of operation.

Look at how they cross each other, in various patterns and at various angles. Just centering on Will Rogers VOR (IRW) at the Oklahoma City Airport, you see that any flights navigating overhead that spot can be north/south and east/west, and at nearly 90° angles.

Now....the airplanes navigate by reference to the ground, of course. SO each flight that remains on, and follows a Jet Airway, will travel over the ground in the same manner. BUT, clouds drift with the winds....carried along, and move over the ground, in the direction the wind happens to be blowing. So, one airplane flies north, leaves a contrail...that trail drifts with the winds, let's say the winds ids from the NorthWest direction.

Ten minutes later, an airplane on the exact same course, that is following behind the first one, flies along and leaves another contrail. Now, you have two contrails, parallel to each other, but separate by those ten minutes that elapsed, and the first one has moved with the wind.

Repeat that process, and add in flights travelling east/west.

You now have a "grid". This only shows up, this pattern, when the contrails happen to be in conditions that allow them to linger and persist....just like the CIRRUS clouds that may be there also. (Read up about cirrus clouds, and weather changes that may be approaching).


Also, READ this: "Contrail Grids are not "Chemtrail" Grids

Capisce?



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 06:08 PM
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These links contain info on the Geoengineering/Chemtrail programs.

At the bottom of the page in the second link you will find a long list of links to PDF files and other info that may help in your investigations.

There is no need to argue on here with the doubters. You can only educate those who want to be educated. The debunkers on this site are paid to spread disinfo and ignorance.


Geoengineering 101 – South Carolina Chemtrails

Geoengineering 201 – Chemtrails, Contrails, and Global Dimming

I recommend you read this document " Policy Implications of Greenhouse Warming: Mitigation, Adaptation, and the Science Base "

Policy Implications of Greenhouse Warming: Mitigation, Adaptation and the Science Base

This 945 page document sponsored by The National Academy of Science was created in 2002 before the major campaign to disguise and cover-up this project was implemented. It goes into great detail and is clearly documented proof of the Geoengineering Projects taking place today.

You can find a summary of this document as well as the download link here

Chemtrails- The Smoking Gun



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 06:14 PM
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Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
Policy Implications of Greenhouse Warming: Mitigation, Adaptation and the Science Base

This 945 page document sponsored by The National Academy of Science was created in 2002 before the major campaign to disguise and cover-up this project was implemented. It goes into great detail and is clearly documented proof of the Geoengineering Projects taking place today.


Indeed - it clearly identifies pollution, carbonisation of the atmosphere, etc., as being geo-engineering that is going on today and that needs to have something done about it:


It is important to recognize that we are at present involved in a large project of inadvertent "geoengineering" by altering atmospheric chemistry, and it does not seem inappropriate to inquire if there are countermeasures that might be implemented to address the adverse impacts.

Our current inadvertent project in "geoengineering" involves great uncertainty and great risk. Engineered countermeasures need to be evaluated but should not be implemented without broad understanding of the direct effects and the potential side effects, the ethical issues, and the risks. Some do have the merit of being within the range of current short-term experience, and others could be "turned off" if unintended effects occur.


books.nap.edu...

I am glad that you realise that AGW is an important issue that needs addressing.



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 06:18 PM
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Originally posted by MathiasAndrew

There is no need to argue on here with the doubters. You can only educate those who want to be educated. The debunkers on this site are paid to spread disinfo and ignorance.



As you're so efficient at finding information that proves the existence of these alleged chemtrails,how about showing us proof that anyone on here is paid to disprove yours and any other believers theories? If this is the case,can someone have a word with the wages department to find out when we're getting payed please
?



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