What Martial Art Is Right For You? Which Ones Are Effective? What Style TO Learn?

Originally posted by SplitInfinity

Originally posted by PaxVeritas
a friend of mine I just talked about had me over to watch a vid about a specific type of Street Fighting technique used in the close quarters of the back allys and roof tops of Hong Kong.
The specific technique with the greatest effect is called CHAIN PUNCHING. It is a series of left, right ,left, right...punches aimed directly infront of you at the face of your attacker. You move your arms and fists as fast as you can and overlap one with the other almost like pedaling a bike but more linear.

If done right...and this is for use in super close quarters...it forces your opponent backwards where once pinned against a wall or even better...if he trips over something because he is backing away and can't defend against the punches....you have him. Warning...Little Chinese Guys can get in under your chin line and strike your throut so if you are tall like me...to them at least...I am 6 ft. 1 in....you have to sometimes use your knees to keep them from getting in under your jaw. Split Infinity

Chain punching is the basic form of attack in Wing chun,it is or should be taught from the first lesson,it is extremely effective and hard to avoid or counter.All punches are aimed at the throat and when perfected you can land six to eight punches a second.
WC is a close quarter fighting system which nulifies high kicks by closeing the gap quickly,it is an anti graple system which makes it very difficult for an opponent to lock/hold/throw or take you down.
WC is a system of fighting not a sport,all strikes are aimed at the throat,eyes,back of the head,neck,clavicle,floating ribs and spine.All kicks are bellow the waist.
WC does not rely on streanth or a knockout blow,it concentrates on speed and multiple strikes.
Dont forget the best martial art for one may not suite another also the best martial art can be ruined by a bad teacher so be picky and go and watch as many classes as posible.

Remember at the end of the day its not about the man in the fight,its about the fight in the man.

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by fedeykin

 

using this same logic then it would be easy to say to you, (seeing as how you say , ya but if the guy is stronger and faster then the woman cant kick him)

Yes I agree its training and if you have read ANY of my posts on this board then you would know better....

However you are arguing semantics............same works for anyone else......you can have all your muscle speed training you want..........like you said , if someone is faster then it doesnt matter......

You are arguing moot points......

the point is effectiveness of the art and practicioner in general.........

Saying a woman kicking a man in the groin is ineffective "if" is a moot point

I can throw out a thousand situations to nullify any one particular situation........

This exact thought process is what makes me think many people posting on this board have absolutely NO real experience with application in real world scenarious

edit on 1-2-2012 by ManBehindTheMask because: (no reason given)

This isn't about specific situations, and it this applies to all arts.

One boxer who trains more and better then another, will always win over the other if all other situations (weight, reach etc) are the same.

Any situation you will face in real life, as in outside of the ring, will come down to the way you trained. All technique will go out the window if you are not used to the psychological stress involved in combat. The body takes over and does what it is trained to do. (ask any soldier who has seen combat)

However, you have to add into this the actualy abilitiy and thoroughness of the training. This means that if you practice nothing but jab/cross (boxing) and you leave out strenous phsyical training such as to build your stamina and strength, then all your body will be able to do is throw a jab and a cross that will have very little effect.

Now if your body is trained to move quickly, and with strength then whatever movement your body responds with, will inherit this speed and strength. This is why competenant martial arts instructors will build the initiate with physical training to form their bodies, and then instill technique. This is independant of what particular style you are practicing.

My point is: effectiveness in combat depends not only on the technique that is drilled into your body, but also on the ability to pull this technique off in an effective manner in a stressful situation.
Most martial arts schools cater to the lazy, the people looking for quick solutions and the sports fighters.

The lazy will never amount to anything in the martial arts and quick solutions will only help you against someone who does not train harder then you do.

Originally posted by FugitiveSoul




You nailed it. The constant use of your hands, shins, forearms, and feet to strike creates calcium build up, which both strengthens the bone, as well as making your strikes firmer (which means your opponent is feeling a hammer hit them and not a slab of hamburger).

This is also a good way to destroy your shins and knuckles. You will have a lot of fun when you are older if you follow the traditional muay thai route of toughening up your shins/knuckles

Also correct. The eye socket, nose, and jaw joint are extremely easy to break, and doing so will generally stop most aggressors in their tracks.

Once again, it is easy to say you will attack a specific point on someone's body. Try this against a resisting opponent. If you do not train against resisting opponens like you would if you train BJJ, then you will not succeed.

Try punching a pro boxer in the nose, and you will see what I'm talking about.

Originally posted by LoonyConservative
reply to post by PaxVeritas

 

lol yeah I've been challenged a few times, luckily I never had to do anything, because they're buddies would step in and stop things.

I think I'm gonna look into Krav Maga, seems like a good one to learn to disable and then get out of there.

Why Krav Maga might work for Israeli elite special forces units: because they are training for combat all day every day.

Why Krav Maga will not work for you: because you are lazy and want to learn how to fight by training 2 hours a week.

The best way to train is to hang out in biker or hick bars on Saturday night. then imagine each person that walks in the bar as your potential adversary, size them up, peripherally, figure out beforehand what you are going to do to them that's going to be affective enough to get a 1or 2 strike win, then when you have figured out what you are going to do, put it to action the best ones to start fights with are bouncers, especially really big muscular ones. I find that stomping them in the middle of their thigh muscle clean to the bone renders them totally incapacitated or a downward strike to the tab of their solar plexus really gets their attention, the element of surprise is paramount so always have a friendly smile on your face so they drop their guard, and remember, a good handshake always sets up an instant win

reply to post by PaxVeritas


Food for thought. I have experience with boxing, Judo, and a few others. All styles aside, in the end it is the one who is meanest that will win. Doing whatever it takes to win is the key...

Interesting thread. I am a 60 yr. old woman who has been taking Shotokan karate for 7yrs. Realistically I totally understand that my age, height ( lack of....) and other handicaps will not let me be a survivor of a street fight. I will say that my training has at least given me muscle memory so hopefully I can block , attack, and run . At the least I can observe a punch headed my way and not flinch and thereby get taken. I do not really go into tournaments and fight, but one could only hope that I might be at least a smidge more prepared than other people my age! MMA is the best way to go to survive. In a SHTF situation, being prepared to do what you must is the best advantage. People are not basically good, and in a bad situation, it goes to crap immediately. If one understands this and can be ruthless from the get go, it helps....

Originally posted by fedeykin

Originally posted by LoonyConservative
reply to post by PaxVeritas

 

lol yeah I've been challenged a few times, luckily I never had to do anything, because they're buddies would step in and stop things.

I think I'm gonna look into Krav Maga, seems like a good one to learn to disable and then get out of there.

Why Krav Maga might work for Israeli elite special forces units: because they are training for combat all day every day.

Why Krav Maga will not work for you: because you are lazy and want to learn how to fight by training 2 hours a week.

YOu make too many assumptions, just like in your above post.........

You have no idea how effective it is im sure because youve probably never trained in it..........

2. You have no idea how "lazy" he is or how often hes going to train.......

I think you are just trying to pick an argument........obvious troll is obvious

You seem to think you know more then anyone on this forum , even those who have real world experience

I can say with all certainty that this sytem along with my other training has saved my life

I have taken Muay Thai, Boxing, Tae Kwon Do, and Judo. I think Judo is the most effective as most fights start on your feet and end on the ground, judo teaches both and i have used it to win 2 fights without ever throwing a punch or kick.One was a throw, the other a choke hold till the guy passed out, which surprisingly took only a few seconds

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask



I can assure you that all I am doing is expressing my opinion. And in my professional opinion, the most decisive factor in training is how much you do it, and that technique is only a small part of training - therefore making it almost secondary which style you train.

I can tell you a small bit about myself if you want. I have been training martial arts since I was 5 years old, and am now 29. I started with Judo, moved to Shotokan where I have a black belt, then went overto Kung Fu for a while after which I moved to Brazil for a few years where I trained in bjj and won several tournaments. I have spent some time in the military, but live in a peaceful European country so I have not seen combat.
I also run a martial arts school with a colleage of mine which I can link you in a private message if you want. (although the website is in German)

Hopefuly you can see that I am not just arguing with you for the fact of arguing. I just think many people, especially Americans have a very skewed view of martial arts and maybe my opinions can help some people think differently.

Wrestling should also be considered a martial art, have had a few good wrestlers come into class, they have some good skills

reply to post by fedeykin


I should also add another fact from my experience which underscores my point.

In the last few years I moved away from training technique and have been doing primarily physical excercise in preparation for mountain climbing. This means running, calistenics, strength training etc..

My technique might not have improved dramatically in the last few years, but my sparring has improved significantly just by being more physically fit.

reply to post by Binder


Now YOUR post is one I can get behind.

Everything you said is what I have witnessed in reality, on the streets, in REAL situations.

You 'get it'.

I have about 12 years experience in various martial arts now. I'm still young, 19 years old but I've been lucky enough to have had seminars and classes with various instructors and experts. I hold 2nd dan in Wado-ryu Karate but I also have experience with Judo, Boxing and MMA. Out of all the Instructors I have met one of the best has to be Geoff Thompson (google him). He is a doorman, writer and instructor. The benefit you get when being trained by a doorman that is a martial artists and not just a big guy is that they have been in almost every situation that they teach about. Whereas lots of other instructors may not have ever been in a real life or death situation. I really to believe that to a large extent it isn't the martial art that determines how well you are going to be able to defend yourself, it's the quality of teaching you receive. If you have an instructor or sensei that doesn't go hard on his pupils and doesn't teach really devastating techniques then in a self defense situation anyone would fail.

Originally posted by geryon
Wrestling should also be considered a martial art, have had a few good wrestlers come into class, they have some good skills

Wrestling is good. It would be considered in my 'grappling range' defense, but it's not as thorough as BJJ in strikes, submissions, bars, guards. It is useful to know though.

Originally posted by fedeykin
reply to post by fedeykin

 

I should also add another fact from my experience which underscores my point.

In the last few years I moved away from training technique and have been doing primarily physical excercise in preparation for mountain climbing. This means running, calistenics, strength training etc..

My technique might not have improved dramatically in the last few years, but my sparring has improved significantly just by being more physically fit.

Thats good and i admire the fact that youve studied so long and are doing well.....

I have to as well, I studied Kenpo till I was 17 and then moved into Krav , entered the Marine Corps and continued my training........

the thing is, you seem to totally discount some key factors in striking, just like the above post..........Im guessing because your a BJJ fighter I really cant say...

But to put down another martial art just because your feelings on it, doesnt mean its accurate......

Yes training, matters, ive said this repeatedly throughout this thread.........

Ive won many tourneys too, but that doesnt mean squat in the real world.......what matters is application....

You tell someoen that a martial art wont work for them Like Krav, because they are lazy and only want a 2 hour a day training ......

First.........we could say the same in reverse for you

2. Anyone who has taken Krav, knows how practical its applications are, and how in your face, and aggressive the training is......

If you are training in Krav right, you WILL get hurt.........its also very physical calisthenics wise....

I really hate to see people make comments like you do , and yet seem to not be able to use the same parameters for themselves

You seem to really come off as someone who hates striking martial arts, and feels like yours is better then anyone elses..............which is a common theme.....

edit:case in point

I brought up the fact of people who are in striking arts tend to have tougher hands, and going AGAINST your earlier post that says training is what makes you proficient and how you train, you said something to the effect of
how bad your hands are going to be when you get older.....

That point is irrelevant......and in direct contradiction to your post about ferocity of training..

A guy with hands like that, its you and totally obliterates your jaw into pieces....i guarantee the last thing youll be thinking about is "man when hes 60 his hands are going to be awful"

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


Im basing the idea that most people are lazy in their training on what I have seen. I've moved around a lot and spent only several months to a few years in many places and have therefore tried many many different martial arts schools looking for places to continue my training.

For example, I spent a few months in Toronto, where I tried out about 10-15 different martial arts schools before I found an adequate place to train, and even there most of the people were lazy in their training.

The worst experiences I've had were in Kempo, Krav Maga and Wing Tsun schools, where the snail factor was at its highest.

Originally posted by fedeykin

This is also a good way to destroy your shins and knuckles. You will have a lot of fun when you are older if you follow the traditional muay thai route of toughening up your shins/knuckles

Depends on if you grow stagnant or not. Ask any of the old masters if they have joint pain. The answer is likely "no". A body at rest, just like any machine, begins to fall apart. I've seen people with arthritis at 30 for doing nothing more than driving a taxi, and I've seen people in their 70s with zero joint or bone issues and they're still rocking the yoga.

Once again, it is easy to say you will attack a specific point on someone's body. Try this against a resisting opponent. If you do not train against resisting opponens like you would if you train BJJ, then you will not succeed.

Try punching a pro boxer in the nose, and you will see what I'm talking about.

This was the entire point we're trying to make. In a fight, a real fight, a boxer doesn't stand much more of a chance than your average bar room brawler. Once legs start flying, his "hands up" posture isn't going to do squat against the full force of a 220 pound man throwing his full weight into a spinning kick. If anything, those "guards" are just going to help me break his face as they are pressed between my foot and his head with several thousand psi put behind it.

The key is to know your opponent, and the best way to do this (even with a stranger) is to let them make the first move. Between the moment you realize you're in a fight and the moment your opponent makes the first move there's a lot you can learn. Their posture can tell you if they're trained or not, and what they're trained in, and how they choose to make that first move will tell you how aggressive and/or skilled they are at what they know. Most times you'll get lucky and they'll make a mistake with that first move and you can end a fight quickly, but even if that isn't the case, you can learn a lot for when you counter or follow-up.

I'll agree that some form of "live" training or sparring program is good to get experience, but even someone who self trains can learn what to look for and how to take advantage of someone by side stepping their opponents strengths and focusing solely on their weaknesses.

reply to post by fedeykin

Bad teachers make bad classes not the art itself.

reply to post by FugitiveSoul


My money would be on the pro boxer in your specific case, But arguing points like that is pointless.

The one place where you are completely wrong is letting them make the first move. While this can benefit you in theoretical ways, that first move is likely to hurt you badly, and the only real reason to let them make the first move is legal ramifications.

One hit can be all it takes to end a fight, especially if weapons are involved. Think wild west movies and gun slingers, the one who shoots first will most likely be the one who is left standing. This goes for street fights as well as wild west standoffs.