perhaps most of the masons i have observed were clandestine. i suspect it depends on the state or jurisdiction because i have noticed this what some
may call "irregularity" more in one place than in others and especially among family? and again someone may be lying to me or someone is telling the
truth so I will keep watching because i believe people have big mouths, big ego's and cannot keep secrets well.
Ancient Order Freemasonry vs. Free and Accepted and Prince Hall Masonry., page 3
privacy
reply posted on 2-2-2012 @ 12:54 PM by getreadyalready
reply to post by KSigMason
Florida doesn't recognize PHA. Supposedly a few years ago they tried some form of limited recognition, but it was shot down by PHA, and now the issue is dead.
It's odd, because I can go to Missouri, and sit in a FAAM lodge, and there can be PHA Masons in attendance, and it is fine, but I can't do it in Florida.
Florida doesn't recognize PHA. Supposedly a few years ago they tried some form of limited recognition, but it was shot down by PHA, and now the issue is dead.
It's odd, because I can go to Missouri, and sit in a FAAM lodge, and there can be PHA Masons in attendance, and it is fine, but I can't do it in Florida.
reply posted on 2-2-2012 @ 07:51 PM by Exeteri
reply to post by KSigMason
The few PHA masons I've met here in Oregon, have been extremely critical of regular masonry, and more then a little bit racist about it. I was very disappointed, but I didn't exactly check their credentials. They could have been full of it or part of an irregular group claiming to be PHA.
The few PHA masons I've met here in Oregon, have been extremely critical of regular masonry, and more then a little bit racist about it. I was very disappointed, but I didn't exactly check their credentials. They could have been full of it or part of an irregular group claiming to be PHA.
reply posted on 3-2-2012 @ 09:36 AM by KSigMason
reply to post by Exeteri
That's too bad to hear. The one PHA Lodge we have in Idaho is very friendly. I also know some of the Past Grands and their current Most Worshipful, all fine gentleman and Brothers.
That's too bad to hear. The one PHA Lodge we have in Idaho is very friendly. I also know some of the Past Grands and their current Most Worshipful, all fine gentleman and Brothers.
reply posted on 3-2-2012 @ 09:46 AM by Rockpuck
reply to post by Exeteri
I don't even know if PH Masons are recognized by Oregons Grand Lodge? I've never heard mention of a local lodge in town, but then again, there's not many African Americans in the city (Portland) either.
In Ohio I only ever had positive experiences, great mix of guys. It was right by the Air Force Base, for some reason active duty guys like joining PH Masonry, but they sure knew how to party! Even had a good talk with a local WM who thought the idea that either group was racist to be funny. They like their gig, they have no intentions of abandoning their tradition and history to appease a politically correct society.
I don't even know if PH Masons are recognized by Oregons Grand Lodge? I've never heard mention of a local lodge in town, but then again, there's not many African Americans in the city (Portland) either.
In Ohio I only ever had positive experiences, great mix of guys. It was right by the Air Force Base, for some reason active duty guys like joining PH Masonry, but they sure knew how to party! Even had a good talk with a local WM who thought the idea that either group was racist to be funny. They like their gig, they have no intentions of abandoning their tradition and history to appease a politically correct society.
reply posted on 3-2-2012 @ 10:04 AM by getreadyalready
reply to post by Rockpuck
I've had the same experience with PH guys. Even though Florida doesn't recognize them, and I can't sit in Lodge, I have noticed that they take their craft very seriously! They study hard, and they party hard, and they seem to be very active and close-knit.
I would love for Florida to come around to recognizing them, but it seems dead in the water for now.
I've had the same experience with PH guys. Even though Florida doesn't recognize them, and I can't sit in Lodge, I have noticed that they take their craft very seriously! They study hard, and they party hard, and they seem to be very active and close-knit.
I would love for Florida to come around to recognizing them, but it seems dead in the water for now.
reply posted on 3-2-2012 @ 10:07 AM by Rockpuck
reply to post by getreadyalready
I'm surprised the UGLE hasn't tried to force onto lodges not recognizing them. PH is recognized by the UGLE, technically speaking any lodge recognized by the UGLE should be recognized by all regular lodges. My understanding anyways. You need a law degree to sort through Masonic bylaws.
I'm surprised the UGLE hasn't tried to force onto lodges not recognizing them. PH is recognized by the UGLE, technically speaking any lodge recognized by the UGLE should be recognized by all regular lodges. My understanding anyways. You need a law degree to sort through Masonic bylaws.
reply posted on 4-2-2012 @ 01:17 AM by no1smootha
reply to post by JoshNorton
While I understand what you are saying, you are painting all "clandestine" Freemasonic orders with a broad brush. There are a number of groups that are Chartered, recognized by other established Orders, are constituted and have by-laws to live by. Not all clandestine groups are as you describe, certainly not mine. My dues are actually a little less than when I was regular because my dues are for all degrees to 33, as opposed to dues for Blue Lodge and dues for each appendant bodies.
While I understand what you are saying, you are painting all "clandestine" Freemasonic orders with a broad brush. There are a number of groups that are Chartered, recognized by other established Orders, are constituted and have by-laws to live by. Not all clandestine groups are as you describe, certainly not mine. My dues are actually a little less than when I was regular because my dues are for all degrees to 33, as opposed to dues for Blue Lodge and dues for each appendant bodies.
reply posted on 4-2-2012 @ 01:46 AM by no1smootha
reply to post by partycrasher
You are misunderstanding the use of the word "clandestine" Mason as used by UGLE and US GLs. It is a term to describe a Freemason that their GL doesn't recognize which they are forbidden to attend. Usual reasons for lack of recognition are admitting women or athiests but can include loss of charter or irregularity in their work. It should not be taken to mean we are more secretive etc.
The ritual is a little different, we use the Chamber of Reflection and the conclusion of the 3 degree is dissimilar otherwise it is the same, Hiramic legend etc.
You are misunderstanding the use of the word "clandestine" Mason as used by UGLE and US GLs. It is a term to describe a Freemason that their GL doesn't recognize which they are forbidden to attend. Usual reasons for lack of recognition are admitting women or athiests but can include loss of charter or irregularity in their work. It should not be taken to mean we are more secretive etc.
The ritual is a little different, we use the Chamber of Reflection and the conclusion of the 3 degree is dissimilar otherwise it is the same, Hiramic legend etc.
reply posted on 4-2-2012 @ 01:59 AM by Rockpuck
reply to post by no1smootha
Or in the case of Michigan, Arkansas, and Arizona who have declared the Shriners to be Clandestine. (Over a fight as to who has the say of membership and who has power over the other) .. Or West Virginia refusing to recognize Ohio's Grand Lodge.
So it can also simply mean political bickering within the Craft.
Or in the case of Michigan, Arkansas, and Arizona who have declared the Shriners to be Clandestine. (Over a fight as to who has the say of membership and who has power over the other) .. Or West Virginia refusing to recognize Ohio's Grand Lodge.
So it can also simply mean political bickering within the Craft.
reply posted on 4-2-2012 @ 11:30 AM by no1smootha
reply to post by Maya00a
Yes, that is true in some mixed Obediences as well However in mine we use Brother or Sister because in our ritual, the words used in the mother tongue are Adelfos (Brother) or Adelfi (Sister).
Yes, that is true in some mixed Obediences as well However in mine we use Brother or Sister because in our ritual, the words used in the mother tongue are Adelfos (Brother) or Adelfi (Sister).
edit on 4-2-2012 by no1smootha because: Spelling
reply posted on 4-2-2012 @ 07:28 PM by HardToStarboard
Originally posted by no1smootha
reply to post by JoshNorton
While I understand what you are saying, you are painting all "clandestine" Freemasonic orders with a broad brush. There are a number of groups that are Chartered, recognized by other established Orders, are constituted and have by-laws to live by. Not all clandestine groups are as you describe, certainly not mine. My dues are actually a little less than when I was regular because my dues are for all degrees to 33, as opposed to dues for Blue Lodge and dues for each appendant bodies.
What group are you a member of, exactly?
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