Ancient Order Freemasonry vs. Free and Accepted and Prince Hall Masonry.

perhaps most of the masons i have observed were clandestine. i suspect it depends on the state or jurisdiction because i have noticed this what some may call "irregularity" more in one place than in others and especially among family? and again someone may be lying to me or someone is telling the truth so I will keep watching because i believe people have big mouths, big ego's and cannot keep secrets well.

reply to post by partycrasher

Most Masons here on ATS, are from recognized, regular Grand Lodges.

Prince Hall Masonry is very perplexing to me. In NJ, the Prince Halls refuse to associate with the F&A Masons. We have attempted numerous times to make them an official recognized group of freemasonry in NJ but they refuse. Is it a case of reversed racism? I am not sure but I welcome them. A few of my friends are Prince Hall Masons.

Originally posted by fordrew
Prince Hall Masonry is very perplexing to me. In NJ, the Prince Halls refuse to associate with the F&A Masons. We have attempted numerous times to make them an official recognized group of freemasonry in NJ but they refuse. Is it a case of reversed racism? I am not sure but I welcome them. A few of my friends are Prince Hall Masons.

Prince Hall has mutual recognition with the Grand Lodge of New Jersey (and has had so for some time now). Keep in mind that there are several Prince Hall Grand Lodges that are considered clandestine by both the New Jersey Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons and the Most Worshipful Grand Lodge of Prince Hall Masons.

I know for a long time Oregon refused to recognize Idaho we recognized the Prince Hall Lodges. This was interesting particularly on the Western flank of Idaho as there are a few cities that sit just across the river from an Oregon city, and I heard that this edict didn't stop them from still sitting together in some instances.

reply to post by KSigMason


Florida doesn't recognize PHA. Supposedly a few years ago they tried some form of limited recognition, but it was shot down by PHA, and now the issue is dead.

It's odd, because I can go to Missouri, and sit in a FAAM lodge, and there can be PHA Masons in attendance, and it is fine, but I can't do it in Florida.

reply to post by KSigMason


The few PHA masons I've met here in Oregon, have been extremely critical of regular masonry, and more then a little bit racist about it. I was very disappointed, but I didn't exactly check their credentials. They could have been full of it or part of an irregular group claiming to be PHA.

reply to post by Exeteri

That's too bad to hear. The one PHA Lodge we have in Idaho is very friendly. I also know some of the Past Grands and their current Most Worshipful, all fine gentleman and Brothers.

reply to post by Exeteri


I don't even know if PH Masons are recognized by Oregons Grand Lodge? I've never heard mention of a local lodge in town, but then again, there's not many African Americans in the city (Portland) either.

In Ohio I only ever had positive experiences, great mix of guys. It was right by the Air Force Base, for some reason active duty guys like joining PH Masonry, but they sure knew how to party! Even had a good talk with a local WM who thought the idea that either group was racist to be funny. They like their gig, they have no intentions of abandoning their tradition and history to appease a politically correct society.

reply to post by Rockpuck


I've had the same experience with PH guys. Even though Florida doesn't recognize them, and I can't sit in Lodge, I have noticed that they take their craft very seriously! They study hard, and they party hard, and they seem to be very active and close-knit.

I would love for Florida to come around to recognizing them, but it seems dead in the water for now.

reply to post by getreadyalready


I'm surprised the UGLE hasn't tried to force onto lodges not recognizing them. PH is recognized by the UGLE, technically speaking any lodge recognized by the UGLE should be recognized by all regular lodges. My understanding anyways. You need a law degree to sort through Masonic bylaws.

reply to post by Rockpuck


They were recognized in 1997.

Here in Ontario, PH was recognised about a decade ago. Having sat in on a PH double Initiation, these brethren take their Masonry quite seriously and the part that got my attention was how the two Initiates were treated as two runaway slaves. The PH brethren take Masonry and the reality of the black past in North America and meld it together into something clearly meaningful. Given the part that black men played in the defense of Canada against invasion two centuries ago, I admire their ritual

Fitz

reply to post by JoshNorton

While I understand what you are saying, you are painting all "clandestine" Freemasonic orders with a broad brush. There are a number of groups that are Chartered, recognized by other established Orders, are constituted and have by-laws to live by. Not all clandestine groups are as you describe, certainly not mine. My dues are actually a little less than when I was regular because my dues are for all degrees to 33, as opposed to dues for Blue Lodge and dues for each appendant bodies.

reply to post by partycrasher


You are misunderstanding the use of the word "clandestine" Mason as used by UGLE and US GLs. It is a term to describe a Freemason that their GL doesn't recognize which they are forbidden to attend. Usual reasons for lack of recognition are admitting women or athiests but can include loss of charter or irregularity in their work. It should not be taken to mean we are more secretive etc.

The ritual is a little different, we use the Chamber of Reflection and the conclusion of the 3 degree is dissimilar otherwise it is the same, Hiramic legend etc.

reply to post by no1smootha


Or in the case of Michigan, Arkansas, and Arizona who have declared the Shriners to be Clandestine. (Over a fight as to who has the say of membership and who has power over the other) .. Or West Virginia refusing to recognize Ohio's Grand Lodge.

So it can also simply mean political bickering within the Craft.

Originally posted by jimnuggits
Part of the reason men like Masonry is that they lay down every other title but 'Brother' at the door.

To me, one man's Masonry is as good as anothers, until proven otherwise.

As a group, Satanists aren't really into potluck dinners and toys for tots.

Ladies also lay down every other title but 'Brother' at the door.

Edit to add: In female only lodges.

reply to post by Maya00a


Yes, that is true in some mixed Obediences as well However in mine we use Brother or Sister because in our ritual, the words used in the mother tongue are Adelfos (Brother) or Adelfi (Sister).

Originally posted by no1smootha
reply to post by JoshNorton

 

While I understand what you are saying, you are painting all "clandestine" Freemasonic orders with a broad brush. There are a number of groups that are Chartered, recognized by other established Orders, are constituted and have by-laws to live by. Not all clandestine groups are as you describe, certainly not mine. My dues are actually a little less than when I was regular because my dues are for all degrees to 33, as opposed to dues for Blue Lodge and dues for each appendant bodies.

What group are you a member of, exactly?

reply to post by HardToStarboard


I am a member of the International Masonic Order DELPHI, that is headquartered in Greece, and was originally part of LDH.