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Ancient Order Freemasonry vs. Free and Accepted and Prince Hall Masonry.

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posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 11:39 AM
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Is the reason why we hear so much from nobody, know nothing masons is because the Ancient Order Masons are the "real" masons ? Is it not true that ancient order masons do not recognize the fm masons as being real masons? Is it also true that ao masons will not "grip" a prince hall mason because they do not recognize them either? how is this different than racism since ph masonry has been mostly african american? Explain the schisms dear masons who haunt and "control" this site?




posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 11:52 AM
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reply to post by partycrasher
 


Here's what I'm getting from your post:

There are three types of Masons; "nobody, know nothing," Ancient Order," and "Prince Hall." You might have a fourth, as I don't know what a "fm" Mason is.

Are you also saying that Ancient Order Masons do not recognize either "fm" Masons or "Prince Hall" Masons.

You believe that the lack of recognition for "Prince Hall" Masons is racist. It appears you think that at least one of the groups of Masons "haunt and control" ATS. But that we hear a lot from the "nobody, know nothing" Masons.

Finally, you ask them to explain the divisions of Masonry to you?

Have I got that right? You certainly won't make many friends with that approach, and be prepaared to be asked for evidence of your contentions.

If I've misinterpreted something, please explain.



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by partycrasher
Is the reason why we hear so much from nobody, know nothing masons is because the Ancient Order Masons are the "real" masons ? Is it not true that ancient order masons do not recognize the fm masons as being real masons? Is it also true that ao masons will not "grip" a prince hall mason because they do not recognize them either? how is this different than racism since ph masonry has been mostly african american? Explain the schisms dear masons who haunt and "control" this site?



You know, the only person who can accurately assess the activities, motives, and constructs of an organization or group is someone who has spent time among and/or observing them.

Can you say you have done this? If not, then your accusations are ungrounded.

If you have, then provide a backstory to this supposed "analysis", please.



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 12:07 PM
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I like the responses I am getting. I thought what I would get for initial replies would be the usual denial/ridicule guilt shift which I expect. Remember I am not a politician or in another management situation nor am I a current member of any secret org. I have heard much from the mouths of the masons and thought they would like to share with all since they are so frequent on this board and have so many rebuttals for every thought provoking question or statement looking in their direction.

Is this a painful subject?



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 12:45 PM
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reply to post by partycrasher
 

This is not a painful subject to me, it's an interesting one. But I'm still curious, did I understand your OP properly?

Three or four types of Masons, they're racist, they control the site; do I understand you?



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 12:50 PM
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reply to post by partycrasher
 


You only named 3 types? You're slipping. If you want to allege racism, you should do some research and at least also allege sexism, and at least name all the different orders of Masonry that do not recognize one another. Hell, even without being a Mason, 10 minutes of Google would have told me the answers to your questions and given me at least 50 more pertinent questions to ask.

Your trolling is lacking, step it up some!



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 12:52 PM
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I am asking questions about subject matter regarding freemasonry. Actually another post brought it to my mind with the "seven toasts" post. as per controlling this site, I injected that in there, this is a conspiracy website after all.



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 12:52 PM
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reply to post by partycrasher
 

Actually most Grand Lodges in the US do recognize Prince Hall Masons, but there are some that don't.

Do you have evidence of any of your assertions or is this just a smear thread?



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 12:54 PM
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K sig are you dodging my direct questions with you usual unrevealing answers?



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 12:55 PM
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reply to post by partycrasher
 


Ancient Free and Accepted Masons: "Old" English. Also Irish.

Free and Accepted Masons: English.

Prince Hall Freemasonry: African American founded.

AFAM and FAM Freemasons recognize each other. Depending on where a states Grand Lodge received either support from another lodge at it's founding usually dictates whether a lodge is AFAM or FAM. It all goes back to 1717 when the Grand Lodge of England was founded, those that supported the "old ways" started an Ancient Grand Lodge which was later united into the United Grand Lodge of England. The ancestry of a Grand Lodge (where it descends from) will determine it. The Irish and Scottish Grand Lodges supported the "Antients" Grand Lodge in keeping with tradition .. when immigrants came to America if your state had a very high Irish Masonic population and the Grand Lodge of Ireland chartered your Grand Lodge odds are it was an AFAM Lodge.

Prince Hall is recognized by most Grand Lodges in the USA .. not all. So depending on where your at will depend on whether they are considered "real" Freemasons.



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 12:59 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


That was far too informative and factual for this thread. It was also already available on at least a dozen other threads in ATS. It was also not going to be enough to satisfy someone intent on smearing something they don't even have the energy to research themselves.

Great effort though, I commend you for trying to communicate with the partycrasher. It is kind of like those guys trying to teach the dolphins sentence structure. They seem to have had some recent success, maybe you will too!



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 01:03 PM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


Oh I wasn't talking to the OP lol .. some people, even fellow Masons get confused on the differences. I figure if someone comes along reading the thread they might as well find out what the difference really is. Which is to say nothing, there is no difference unless your an Irishman who likes to know his Grand Lodge got their charter from the Grand Lodge of Ireland.



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by partycrasher
Is it also true that ao masons will not "grip" a prince hall mason because they do not recognize them either?


We have had mutual recognition in my jurisdiction for some time now. We have hosted Brothers of the local Prince Hall Lodge and have visited them in return. We obviously use the Master Mason's grip when meeting so I am not sure where you are going with this.



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 01:07 PM
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There are WAY more than 3… too many to count, actually.

In my home town alone there are at least 18 different Grand Lodges, none of which recognize any of the others as being legitimate.* Most of them are tiny and only have 2 or 3 lodges under them. One of them had Dr. Conrad Murray, the guy responsible for Michael Jackson's death, as a member. But I, personally, would never sit in lodge with him because my lodge received its charter from the Grand Lodge of Texas, and his didn't. My own opinion is that he isn't a Mason at all. Not because he's black (I certainly have a number of black brethren in my lodge), but because I can't vette whatever ritual he may have gone through. Maybe his group does drink out of a skull? Maybe they are child abusers. How would I know? But members of lodges under MY Grand Lodge have at least taken the same oaths as I have, so even if they may err in their personal life, I have some standard I can hold them accountable to.

*Actually, Grand Lodge of Texas does recognize the Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Texas, but as far as I know, those are the only 2 Grand Lodges in Texas that share such recognition.
edit on 2012.1.31 by JoshNorton because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 01:09 PM
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I believe the Ancients are actually newer than the Moderns. The Ancient Free and Accepted Masons broke off and started their own thing, to try to get back to more "antient" practices while the Modern freemasonry (Free and Accepted) continued on. Eventually they set aside their differences and formed the United Grand Lodge of England (which, IMO, which was a very UGLE situation).
edit on 31-1-2012 by losthermit because: typo



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 01:11 PM
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what of the mindset of the men who are ancient order masons? do they feel on a personal or other internal level that they are bona fide versus the fm and prince hall lodges?

also I have noticed the prince hall lodge buildings are not as "extravagant"

do the prince hall masons ever get to meet at or use the "other" lodge buildings or are they only meeting in the ph meeting places only?

and if so...why exactly?



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 01:12 PM
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reply to post by partycrasher
 


regular masonry is AF&AM, F&AM, and PHA, in my area. I am not aware of any other Blue lodge groups. All regular masons are recognized. Racism still exists, but it is taking a back seat to common sense more and more. Clandestine groups are many and are not recognized by regular masonry.



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 01:14 PM
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slow internet i see my one question has been answered.



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 01:17 PM
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Originally posted by partycrasher
what of the mindset of the men who are ancient order masons? do they feel on a personal or other internal level that they are bona fide versus the fm and prince hall lodges?

also I have noticed the prince hall lodge buildings are not as "extravagant"

do the prince hall masons ever get to meet at or use the "other" lodge buildings or are they only meeting in the ph meeting places only?

and if so...why exactly?


all lodges are responsible for their respective building. If there are a lot of wealthy members and a large roll, then expect a nice big lodge, if it's a small group in a poor area, expect the opposite. If you get out a bit and travel the countryside, you will notice lots of AF&AM lodges in my area that are quite small and old. It's not about race as you are hoping.



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 01:18 PM
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Originally posted by partycrasher
how is this different than racism since ph masonry has been mostly african american?
Actually, while PH started as (almost?) entirely African American, it is not so today. I've heard that Prince Hall is quite popular in the military for servicemen stationed overseas. Not sure why or how that particular tradition started, but that's what I've heard. (And I don't know if there's recognition between AF&AM and PH among the military. KSig might have some insight on that.)



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