It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

The Philosophy behind the immateriality of the absolute.

page: 1
6
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 09:56 AM
link   
The absolute is the highest reality possible, infinity, truth. This absolute must be immaterial since it is different from all matter, if it were not, it would be just another object and not reality itself.

So when a philosopher asks what caused God, if God is meant the absolute and not a mythological deity, than there is no answer to the question what caused the absolute, since the absolute is immaterial and thus has no cause. It is uncaused.

So the question is, if the absolute is uncaused, but everything in the universe has a cause to it, how does the uncause cause the universe? How does truth create something? Does something exist and then truth exists, or are they both simultaneously one?




posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 10:12 AM
link   

Originally posted by filosophia
The absolute is the highest reality possible, infinity, truth. This absolute must be immaterial since it is different from all matter, if it were not, it would be just another object and not reality itself.
Why do you think that ? What do we really know about matter ? Matter is basically a macro manifestation of micro or quantum energy, so why do you think matter is not noble enough?



So when a philosopher asks what caused God, if God is meant the absolute and not a mythological deity, than there is no answer to the question what caused the absolute, since the absolute is immaterial and thus has no cause. It is uncaused.
Again, and in regard to what I just said, what makes you think that the absolute is immaterial?



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 10:14 AM
link   
reply to post by filosophia
 


Existence becomes truth when it becomes observed. Reality is the universe + consciousness. The absolute is the capacity to develop consciousness, and perhaps consciousness itself assuming consciousness is external to the brain and is eternal.



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 10:31 AM
link   

Originally posted by smithjustinb
reply to post by filosophia
 


Existence becomes truth when it becomes observed. Reality is the universe + consciousness. The absolute is the capacity to develop consciousness, and perhaps consciousness itself assuming consciousness is external to the brain and is eternal.


Truth exists if it is observed or not, so consciousness is not even necessary. The unverse would exist if every conscious being died out. The development of consciousness is a product of the absolute due to the fact that everythings true nature is the absolute reality.



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 10:32 AM
link   

Originally posted by smithjustinb
reply to post by filosophia
 


Existence becomes truth when it becomes observed. Reality is the universe + consciousness. The absolute is the capacity to develop consciousness, and perhaps consciousness itself assuming consciousness is external to the brain and is eternal.


Truth exists if it is observed or not, so consciousness is not even necessary. The unverse would exist if every conscious being died out. The development of consciousness is a product of the absolute due to the fact that everythings true nature is the absolute reality.



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 10:36 AM
link   
reply to post by filosophia
 


there is truth and freedom within all and any

let me try to give the concept of what is normal to me as the least logics that i admit without thinking

truth is the concept that as long as any cant b but any then objective will always be only positive fact constancy

freedom is the fact result of objective existence, when any is any objectively then the any objective replace relatively the any subjective, then what was just any subjectively become out of its any free

but the key answer to ur op is somwhere else

absolute truth is freedom concept value of possible always as absolute superiority sense justification of being without having a reason nor a base prior to

so freedom concept absolutely justified always become freedom fact for any truth becoming relatively object

now imagine if positive constancy became present and a free result became a fact, what could happen if the free result meant freedom concept by any objective way ?
absolute true existence freedom



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 10:40 AM
link   

Originally posted by filosophia

Originally posted by smithjustinb
reply to post by filosophia
 


Existence becomes truth when it becomes observed. Reality is the universe + consciousness. The absolute is the capacity to develop consciousness, and perhaps consciousness itself assuming consciousness is external to the brain and is eternal.


Truth exists if it is observed or not, so consciousness is not even necessary. The unverse would exist if every conscious being died out. The development of consciousness is a product of the absolute due to the fact that everythings true nature is the absolute reality.


Consider the possibility that existence and consciousness are attributes of the same absolute, that there is no existence without consciousness.



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 10:41 AM
link   
reply to post by gosseyn
 


Matter is the same as mind in an absolute sense because there is only one reality. The separation of mind and matter is an illusion caused by the absolute realities presence among all things. Which is why anything with matter also has mind, but as certain things are bigger or stronger than others, the capacity for thought is also different, which is why brain size is associated with higher intelligence of a species. In the absolute sense matter is just as noble as mind.



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 10:47 AM
link   

Originally posted by filosophia
The absolute is the highest reality possible, infinity, truth. This absolute must be immaterial since it is different from all matter, if it were not, it would be just another object and not reality itself.

So when a philosopher asks what caused God, if God is meant the absolute and not a mythological deity, than there is no answer to the question what caused the absolute, since the absolute is immaterial and thus has no cause. It is uncaused.

So the question is, if the absolute is uncaused, but everything in the universe has a cause to it, how does the uncause cause the universe? How does truth create something? Does something exist and then truth exists, or are they both simultaneously one?


Where does it say the absolute is immaterial?

"Absolute" is entirely subjective. But the absolute has a straight answer, an every answer has a cause, even if the cause consists of infinite variables. There is a cause to everything...even if the cause is only probability and chance.

So explain how the absolute is uncaused.



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 10:48 AM
link   
In an absolute sense existence and consciousness are the same, since they would be identical within the absolute. The absolute is one, so anything within is non contradictory to anything else, which is just a way of saying all is the same. On a physical level human consciousness does not matter to existence of the universe, but do planets and stars have intelligence? Or are they just features of nature without consciousness. Then is nature itself smart?



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 10:48 AM
link   
The universe is caused by the absolute. The absolute is veiwing itself in consciousness (waking and dream state), it says I am, it knows it is because it is seeing, hearing, tasting, touching. The absolute, absolute is deep sleep where no images are known. no thing is known. But the knower (the awareness) is still present- 'I'.
The absolute is always present, whether deep, dreaming or waking state.
It is your deepest part, it is your source, it is the source of all. It's from where you are seeing from, it is where everything that is present is seeing from, it connects the whole unified field. It is the unified field, oneness.
edit on 31-1-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 10:50 AM
link   

Originally posted by jahn369

Originally posted by filosophia

Originally posted by smithjustinb
reply to post by filosophia
 


Existence becomes truth when it becomes observed. Reality is the universe + consciousness. The absolute is the capacity to develop consciousness, and perhaps consciousness itself assuming consciousness is external to the brain and is eternal.


Truth exists if it is observed or not, so consciousness is not even necessary. The unverse would exist if every conscious being died out. The development of consciousness is a product of the absolute due to the fact that everythings true nature is the absolute reality.


Consider the possibility that existence and consciousness are attributes of the same absolute, that there is no existence without consciousness.


That depends on physical, psychological, or spiritual existence. A man in a come is not mentally existent, but he is spiritually and physically existent. A dead woman is not spiritually or psychologically existent, but is physically existent.

Gravity is not physically or spiritually existent, but by our psychological perception, it is existent. (no, don't pick apart the gravity analogy, as it's beside the point.)

The condition of existence is subjective according to aspect.
edit on CTuesdayam111151f51America/Chicago31 by Starchild23 because: revision



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 10:56 AM
link   

Originally posted by gosseyn

Originally posted by filosophia
The absolute is the highest reality possible, infinity, truth. This absolute must be immaterial since it is different from all matter, if it were not, it would be just another object and not reality itself.
Why do you think that ? What do we really know about matter ? Matter is basically a macro manifestation of micro or quantum energy, so why do you think matter is not noble enough?


Exactly. What is the essence of matter, of a proton? We know its a positively charged particle, but what does that even mean?



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 10:57 AM
link   

Originally posted by absolutely
reply to post by filosophia
 


there is truth and freedom within all and any


yes, very true. Makes sense to me.


let me try to give the concept of what is normal to me as the least logics that i admit


Let 'me' give the concept of what is normal to 'you'. You give the concept to another, not yourself. Your use of the word me is in error.


truth is the concept that as long as any cant b but any then objective will always be only positive fact constancy


Truth is a concept that is always a positive fact of constancy. Thats as close as i can come to translating your statement into English.



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 11:00 AM
link   
The ocean causes the waves. The waves 'think' they are all separate but they all belong to the ocean. The ocean moves and the waves dance, the waves 'think' they are doing it.
When the wave gets tired it sinks back into the ocean and rests before being wavy again.
edit on 31-1-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 11:01 AM
link   
reply to post by Starchild23
 


The absolute is uncaused because if it had a cause then that cause would be greater than it and therefore the absolute would not be absolute. The true absolute is absolute by its own nature and not by any other nature. Nothing upholds the absolute, it is nowhere and everywhere.



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 11:03 AM
link   
reply to post by filosophia
 


i disagree again, things dont have a mind only freedom as it is relatively involved in true existence must be conscious to mind its way out
what is real is still so always there absolutely there is no need to any more when the absolute most is objective, that is why on the contrary what is real is more meaning ways to reduce logics till it became still absolute

true existence is objective in the middle of two different freedom position, freedom concept as source of objective and freedom ends as the present fact result that in absolute truth conception is the positive reference

freedom concept is the superior reference, what is absolutely free is one as nothing objective so cant b objective which is how truth exist then as result of superior reference and positive reference becoming at some point one

objective become independant then in positive superiority mode through absolute reality of all fact, so if that become conscious at a certain level it would go to absolute freedom minds for better results as knowing its source but absolute reality free conscious cant be reality source, since it is never absolutely free
the more it would b conscious the more objective will mean right freedom as else to b real through free minds right realizations



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 11:08 AM
link   

Originally posted by filosophia
reply to post by Starchild23
 


The absolute is uncaused because if it had a cause then that cause would be greater than it and therefore the absolute would not be absolute. The true absolute is absolute by its own nature and not by any other nature. Nothing upholds the absolute, it is nowhere and everywhere.


Absolute has nothing to do with cause. Absolute is defined by its own nature, in and of itself. I could drink a gallon of milk in 10 seconds and then have to pee an hour later. The cause was extreme (unless you're into that sort of thing) but the result was average, because everyone pees.

The pee would be absolutely wet. Why? Because there is no argument as to the pee being dry, and there is no way it could have been dry. Absolute defines the degree of a certain aspect of nature, no matter what it refers to. Absolute does not depend on cause unless it is defining the cause.



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 11:08 AM
link   

Originally posted by absolutely
reply to post by filosophia
 


i disagree again, things dont have a mind only freedom as it is relatively involved in true existence must be conscious to mind its way out
what is real is still so always there absolutely there is no need to any more when the absolute most is objective, that is why on the contrary what is real is more meaning ways to reduce logics till it became still absolute

true existence is objective in the middle of two different freedom position, freedom concept as source of objective and freedom ends as the present fact result that in absolute truth conception is the positive reference

freedom concept is the superior reference, what is absolutely free is one as nothing objective so cant b objective which is how truth exist then as result of superior reference and positive reference becoming at some point one

objective become independant then in positive superiority mode through absolute reality of all fact, so if that become conscious at a certain level it would go to absolute freedom minds for better results as knowing its source but absolute reality free conscious cant be reality source, since it is never absolutely free
the more it would b conscious the more objective will mean right freedom as else to b real through free minds right realizations



Absolutely...this made no sense. Again.

Could you clarify in English please?



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 11:09 AM
link   

Originally posted by filosophia
The absolute is the highest reality possible, infinity, truth. This absolute must be immaterial since it is different from all matter, if it were not, it would be just another object and not reality itself.

So when a philosopher asks what caused God, if God is meant the absolute and not a mythological deity, than there is no answer to the question what caused the absolute, since the absolute is immaterial and thus has no cause. It is uncaused.

So the question is, if the absolute is uncaused, but everything in the universe has a cause to it, how does the uncause cause the universe? How does truth create something? Does something exist and then truth exists, or are they both simultaneously one?


I believe you mean Eternal, kNot Absolute.
Eternal is Infinite, whereas Absolute is kNot necessarily Infinite.


There is a difference!


But to answer your question, Numbers define God, for they are Infinite as well. So God can be Defined, just kNot Confined.


Ribbit



new topics

top topics



 
6
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join