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Islam and other things

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posted on Feb, 4 2012 @ 10:45 AM
reply to post by WarminIndy


Here too

Even the early church fathers believed in the Primacy of Peter. Once you start reading what the successors to the apostles believed it is impossible to be a Protestant. Either the church got corrupted immediately after the apostles died or Protestants are wrong.
edit on 4-2-2012 by 547000 because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 4 2012 @ 11:42 AM
reply to post by Sahabi

Hey again, Sahabi

I am not sure you and I are on the same page. You seem to be responding to things I never said? I never said anything about ignoring verses, or God having abrogated anything, or having to use the Hadith or Tafsir to understand the Quran (while I am sure it is sometimes helpful, it certainly isn't necessary).

I never said Islam hadn't been perfected or completed. What I said that you were interpreting this the wrong way (in that it means that all muslims must stagnate and not progress beyond the 7th century).

To take the analogy of a computer programmer (I do not know how appropriate it would be for you, but hopefully you will understand what I mean), he would have this manual for programming software: explaining different instructions, different limits, etc. Now, USING these instructions, the programmer can make an infinite amount of programs. One to draw with, one to write documents with, one to surf the internet with, and so on.
The manual may be absolutely complete and comprehensive, even if it was written 20 years ago, but that doesn't mean that it the programmer must limit himself to what the author believed and knew about computers from 20 years ago.
Otherwise, one could make the absurd argument that "Since Islam made no ruling towards televisions and computers, and the religion is said to be 'perfected' it is invalid. HaHAH!"

I am also confused with your approach to this "global brotherhood" idea. First you say that you didn't suggest that we should all strive to be the same, but then you said that it was about "true understanding that we are all the same".
We may all be the same as human beings, but there is nothing wrong with celebrating our diversity in religion, in culture, in ethnicity, etc. Nothing wrong with Arabs being proud of their Raqs Baladi, or their shawarmas, Indians of their Bhangra, or their curries, South Americans of their tango, or their empanadas, etc. Nothing wrong with being proud of your cultural, religious or even ethnic heritage.
edit on 4-2-2012 by babloyi because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 03:05 PM
reply to post by babloyi

May I sincerely wish you Peace.

I am not making points as to say 'you said such-and-such.' I am making general points to try to illustrate that Islam is not perfect.

1. If we are to take the Qur'an at face value being the book of no doubt, then we must be willing to acknowledge Qur'anic contradictions, uncertainties, abrogations, editions, and alternate versions amongst the 'originals.'

2. If we are to dissect each verse of the Qur'an to discover the circumstances of its revelation, then we open our selves up to the dogma and doctrine of others besides Allah or Muhammad... being sahaba, sheik, mufti, imam, sect, or madh'hab. Different tafsir, fiqh, seerah, etc.

My understanding of "this day I have perfected your religion" does not mean to stagnate mankind in the first century regarding education, science, mathematics, or technology. As Islam is a "guidance for mankind," I understand its completion to be referencing individual, family, societal, and global interactions amongst mankind. When Allah said the religion is complete, I understand that to mean "interact with mankind and treat your fellow humans this way until the end."

So when I reference "this day I have perfected your religion," I understand Allah to be saying that he has addressed exactly how he wants mankind to function as a nation. Not at all talking about being stuck in the first century.

Global Brotherhood... I am a tree and mankind is a forest. We are all different, we are SUPPOSSED to be different, but we must remember we are one mankind. Regardless of gender, religion, politics, nationality, etc., we are all one mankind. This means we must embrace and celebrate diversity. But we must never be fooled into thinking our differences make us superior to others.

Basically, this means.... as long as a person is not infringing the free will of others or oppressing others, we must fully accept their differences with understanding love. This means that although people are different, we must never focus on the superficial surface.... always remember we are one family.

posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 03:13 PM
Does Islam allow you to look at any and every human in the eye as yourself or as your brother/sister? Your blood brother may do things to anger you, but he is still your brother. You may make mistakes, but you are not going to be prejudice against yourself.

Humble or Egotistical... Humane or Tyrant... Violent or Peaceful... Honest or Liar... Muslim or non-believer... Homosexual or Straight...

Agree or disagree with any person about any issue, but they are still your family.

posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 11:47 PM
reply to post by Sahabi

May you indeed
. I hope that you too may have peace.

But the thing is, I absolutely do not agree with the validity of the problems as you said.

As far as the din being completed, it was simply talking about the Quran. There were no verses revealed after this pertaining to any legalistic aspects. And yes, in a way, it gave the final pattern for the muslims to follow. This gives the "onus" of perfection on the QURAN, however, not the behaviour of the muslims at the time.

And yes, we are all equal (although not the same), except in our deeds and acts and how we behave.

posted on Feb, 14 2012 @ 07:47 AM

Is this true???how does" la ilaha illallahu muhammad ur rasullulah" written in arabic??

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