Islam and other things

reply to post by QuantumSeeker


Quraish had declared that whoever would seize Muhammad (Allah bless him and give him peace) would receive a hundred camels as reward. Among those who were on the lookout for the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) and his companion in order to win the reward was Suraqah, the son of Malik.
In a version by Abu Bakr [R], he said: "We emigrated while the Makkans were in pursuit of us. None caught up with us except Suraqah bin Malik bin Ju‘sham on a horse. I said: ‘O Messenger of Allâh, this one has caught up with us.’ The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) replied:
‘Don’t be cast down, verily, Allâh is with us.’"
To procead, The Prophet's Promise:
www.sahaba.net...

Here, it is translated as bracelets of Kisra=Chosroes( سواري كسرى) which is the right translation.

reply to post by Anonymousman


Only Muslims say the Quran is a miracle, even though that miracle is not really from Mohammed but his followers, including the ones who wrote the hadiths. Mohammed was illiterate, and to recite something he heard would be amazing, if he got it right. One of the things he got wrong was Moses beating the rock because it stole his clothes while he was swimming.

You would think that one thing would be the same if it indeed was a miracle, but since he got it wrong, makes me wonder how many other things he got wrong. There is another, Jews fishing on the Sabbath were turned into rats, because rats don't drink milk of a she camel. He said Jews were also turned into pigs. And he also said to stone a monkey because it committed adultery.

Oh, and my favorite scientific fact from Mohammed....the non-believer has seven intestines, while the believer only has one. Yes, the illiterate man who could not even get history right, could not even get the stories straight and had only one intestine, yes solid proof that the Quran must be a miracle. The miracle is that people believed him and his falsehoods. That one amazes me.

Originally posted by Anonymousman
reply to post by QuantumSeeker

 

Quraish had declared that whoever would seize Muhammad (Allah bless him and give him peace) would receive a hundred camels as reward. Among those who were on the lookout for the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) and his companion in order to win the reward was Suraqah, the son of Malik.
In a version by Abu Bakr [R], he said: "We emigrated while the Makkans were in pursuit of us. None caught up with us except Suraqah bin Malik bin Ju‘sham on a horse. I said: ‘O Messenger of Allâh, this one has caught up with us.’ The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) replied:
‘Don’t be cast down, verily, Allâh is with us.’"
To procead, The Prophet's Promise:
www.sahaba.net...

Here, it is translated as bracelets of Kisra=Chosroes( سواري كسرى) which is the right translation.

edit on 31-1-2012 by Anonymousman because: (no reason given)

Wasn't Mohammed hiding in his tent most of the time while those people were looking for him? And only 100 camels?

How much did he pay for Aisha's childhood? Nothing. How many cows did he sacrifice for Aisha? None. He cared nothing for Aisha, he raped her and beat her and never apologized for it. Real stand up guy, that Mohammed.

Originally posted by WarminIndy
reply to post by Anonymousman

 

Only Muslims say the Quran is a miracle, even though that miracle is not really from Mohammed but his followers, including the ones who wrote the hadiths. Mohammed was illiterate, and to recite something he heard would be amazing, if he got it right. One of the things he got wrong was Moses beating the rock because it stole his clothes while he was swimming.

You would think that one thing would be the same if it indeed was a miracle, but since he got it wrong, makes me wonder how many other things he got wrong. There is another, Jews fishing on the Sabbath were turned into rats, because rats don't drink milk of a she camel. He said Jews were also turned into pigs. And he also said to stone a monkey because it committed adultery.

Oh, and my favorite scientific fact from Mohammed....the non-believer has seven intestines, while the believer only has one. Yes, the illiterate man who could not even get history right, could not even get the stories straight and had only one intestine, yes solid proof that the Quran must be a miracle. The miracle is that people believed him and his falsehoods. That one amazes me.

Did you read my 1st post??? one of the youtube links show how amazing the Qur'an is.

reply to post by QuantumSeeker


I have read the Quran, I have quoted the Quran, and I have posted in times past the very Hadiths found in the Quranic footnotes. The Quran is amazing only in the fact that it does not contain scientific proofs, that those supposed proofs came much later.

There is nothing amazing about the Quran outside of the fact the readers think Mohammed was a miracle man, and yet performed no miracles, gave no prophecy other than what was already prophesied, and forced his religion by the sword. Zoroastrianism is more monotheistic and honorable than Mohammed. At least Zarathrusta did not have to rely on taqiyya when exposed, but then again Zarathustra has never been exposed as a fraud, which Mohammed has been many times in his own religion.

Mohammed was not original, not correct and not honest. That, to me, does not sound virtuous. So please, please, show me virtues of Islam if you want me to believe. The only "virtues" that have ever been shown from the pages of the Quran is that I should be killed for not believing in Mohammed, even though Mohammed says that believers who believe in God and the last day and does good will be rewarded by God for the good deeds. But Mohammed continued on to say that if I don't believe in Mohammed then I should be killed. Who said that? Mohammed. Why would Mohammed say that? To get people to believe in him.

And why does Mohammed say that allah swore by the seen and the unseen and that even allah bows to Mohammed? To trick people into following him. That is the sole reason. Mohammed was a megalomaniac that is emulated to this day. There was nothing peaceful about him and nothing virtuous.

Originally posted by WarminIndy
reply to post by QuantumSeeker

 

I have read the Quran, I have quoted the Quran, and I have posted in times past the very Hadiths found in the Quranic footnotes. The Quran is amazing only in the fact that it does not contain scientific proofs, that those supposed proofs came much later.

There is nothing amazing about the Quran outside of the fact the readers think Mohammed was a miracle man, and yet performed no miracles, gave no prophecy other than what was already prophesied, and forced his religion by the sword. Zoroastrianism is more monotheistic and honorable than Mohammed. At least Zarathrusta did not have to rely on taqiyya when exposed, but then again Zarathustra has never been exposed as a fraud, which Mohammed has been many times in his own religion.

Mohammed was not original, not correct and not honest. That, to me, does not sound virtuous. So please, please, show me virtues of Islam if you want me to believe. The only "virtues" that have ever been shown from the pages of the Quran is that I should be killed for not believing in Mohammed, even though Mohammed says that believers who believe in God and the last day and does good will be rewarded by God for the good deeds. But Mohammed continued on to say that if I don't believe in Mohammed then I should be killed. Who said that? Mohammed. Why would Mohammed say that? To get people to believe in him.

And why does Mohammed say that allah swore by the seen and the unseen and that even allah bows to Mohammed? To trick people into following him. That is the sole reason. Mohammed was a megalomaniac that is emulated to this day. There was nothing peaceful about him and nothing virtuous.

I am referring to this:
www.youtube.com...

I am not really referring to the scientific miracles as you can see.

reply to post by QuantumSeeker


More about moon splitting with undeniable facts from NASA:
www.forsanelhaq.com...

The Koran basically calls God a liar. He basically deceived people into believing Christianity then helped spread it. Why he didn't just raise Jesus up to heaven when everyone was watching I cannot understand. Instead he put in a doppelganger and secretly saved Jesus from death.

I also don't understand how and why the Jews killed Jesus. If He didn't claim to be the Son of God, why did they kill Him for blasphemy? If He never sinned then how else would they have an excuse to sentence Him to death?

Finally, if Jesus preached Islam why were there no Muslims until Mohammed came along?

reply to post by 547000

The Koran basically calls God a liar. He basically deceived people into believing Christianity then helped spread it. Why he didn't just raise Jesus up to heaven when everyone was watching I cannot understand. Instead he put in a doppelganger and secretly saved Jesus from death.

God didn't deceive people into believing christianity (if by christianity, you mean what was taught by Jesus)
God intended that Jesus to preach to the Israelites.

As for why God raised Jesus in secret... I dont know. Perhaps it was part of "Gods plan" as you christians often say when you are not sure of something.

I also don't understand how and why the Jews killed Jesus. If He didn't claim to be the Son of God, why did they kill Him for blasphemy? If He never sinned then how else would they have an excuse to sentence Him to death?

The jews who tried to have Jesus killed were those Jews in power who Jesus accused of being hypocrites. Eventually they had enough of him and wanted him dead.

Finally, if Jesus preached Islam why were there no Muslims until Mohammed came along?

Jesus taught people to submit themselves to God, and no one else. This is pretty much the definition of Islam.
Jesus was a submitter to God in that sense, as were all the other prophets.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Jesus taught people to submit themselves to God, and no one else.

Funny that the New Testament never mentions that.

reply to post by babloyi


May Peace be upon you. Although I followed the salafus-salih, please do not assume that is the extent of my understandings.

Firstly, mankind is One nation. This is extremely true. But a house divided is a house that can not stand. The Qur'an pits believer against non-believer, Muslim against Jew, and the seeds for prejudice. Prejudice leads to separation, division, and eventually into hate. Every single Muslim that believes in Islam is ready to fight as soon as Imam Mahdi arrives. ALLAHU AKBAR!

"Hey, y'all my boys? A'ight Muslims, let's roll up on the kafirs (non-believers) and claim a final battle for Allah."
- Imam Mahdi

Religion of peace, unity, and equality my ass! Your way or the highway? Let your mystery god in the sky fight his own battles. He's a coward for pinning man against man, brother against brother, family against family, and neighbor against neighbor. If Muhammad was such a great orator... if Allah's words can not be equaled, then why do they need the sword? Their word alone isn't good enough? Yeah, that's some power.

"Oh, Islam doesn't say beat our wives. It says hit them softly or slap/smack them."

Coward excuses for men! Slap or smack your woman? Ha!!! My woman is a Queen. My mother is a Queen. My sister is a Queen. My neighbor is a Queen. Let a man dare smack or slap a Queen in my presence... I do not need to slap or smack my woman to communicate with her, to compromise with her, to get situations solved, or to work out our differences. For a religion of the word, the recitation, the oration... Muslim men sure are silenced by their women.

I don't care how many slaves were freed, or how humane Muhammad and Allah said to treat slaves. Point is, they never abolished slavery! Even after, "this day I have perfected your religion." No room for abolishment, so there will always be a door open to slavery, which is INEQUALITY.


Oh my goodness... can we please stop with the.... "but even the Christians this..." or "but even the Bible says that..." You are proving my point more and more!!!!! This is a HUMAN CONDITION, not "my" religion "your" religion problem. I don't care what improvements Islam has as compared to Judaism or Christianity regarding slavery or jihad or capital punishment or head coverings.... all 3 of these religions are mere subjective systems to describe the formless, and therefor open to fault.

Even I can see that Islam can be improved upon by abolishing slavery and allowing a woman as much freedom as a man. Muhammad and his Allah progressively introduced steps to first reduce alcohol consumption, then later outlawed it. Baby steps were taken towards alcohol, but progress to abolish slavery and free women was halted. "This day I have perfected....." crap.

Abrogation? Ha! Just research it yourself. Compare the Meccan ayah to the Medina era verses. Take close note the few instances when Allah changes his mind about concepts or rulings. I would understand and expect Muhammad to change his mind and reshape rulings as time went on, but an All-Knowing God? Once again back to the baby-steps of change. Where is the freedom for women and slaves? Where is the unconditional brotherhood between mankind without religion? Nope, not to be found in Islam.

I guess I love mankind more than Allah does.

reply to post by Sahabi


About abrogation,isn;t it like an indirect way of teaching the muslims to apply different rulings on different situations instead of blindly following whatever people tell them??

reply to post by jmdewey60

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by sk0rpi0n

 

Jesus taught people to submit themselves to God, and no one else.

Funny that the New Testament never mentions that.

How do you understand the Lords prayer that Jesus taught? "Let they will be done"?
What about when Jesus taught that only God is to be worshipped?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

How do you understand the Lords prayer that Jesus taught? "Let they will be done"?
What about when Jesus taught that only God is to be worshiped?

"Will be done" is a continuation of an earlier thought in
Mathew 5:44-45 . . .

But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, so that you may be like your Father in heaven, since he causes the sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

. . . which is a conformity to a divine system.
The worship "only The Lord" thing was a rebuttal to the devil, against worshiping him.

reply to post by jmdewey60

"Will be done" is a continuation of an earlier thought in
Mathew 5:44-45 . . .

My point was that the Lords prayer is addressed entirely to God and the line "thy will be done" is a declaration of submitting oneself to the will of God.

What did Jesus say when he was praying for "the cup to be taken from him" just before his capture?
"not as I will, but as you will".
Jesus had utterly submitted himself to God.

There are several other places in the NT where Jesus shows that God is all powerful and supreme... so it was not just a rebuttal to the devil.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

What did Jesus say when he was praying for "the cup to be taken from him" just before his capture?
"not as I will, but as you will".

Whatever the situation that arises, Jesus is going to do the right thing, but what that situation is that does arise will be determined by his father, and not by him.

reply to post by QuantumSeeker


Allah's word; the Qur'an is supposed to be a guidance for mankind. A book of no doubt. So we should be able to always obey Allah's word, right?

In the Qur'an, it mocks the Christians for "believing in some words but disbelieving in some words" regarding the Bible. But Muslims do the same exact thing!

In some rulings Allah says something is ok, then later in time He changes his mind and say its not ok. Compare Mecca verses with the Medina verses. Research all of the instances of abrogation and contradiction for yourself.

[Search Keywords: Qur'an + Abrogation + Contradiction]

reply to post by Sahabi

I HAVE researched, Sahabi. That is why I made that point.
If it is in the Quran, then it is part of God's word. There is no "abrogated verse" in the Quran. The Quran itself says so!

It is only people who try to simplify or rub out THEIR misconceptions by claiming "Oh, this doesn't make sense when considering this other verse, thus it is abrogated!"

reply to post by jmdewey60

Whatever the situation that arises, Jesus is going to do the right thing, but what that situation is that does arise will be determined by his father, and not by him.

Sure Jesus does the right thing. And he did the right thing in asking for help.

"O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt."

"if its possible".... "not as I will, but as thou wilt"... even while asking for help from the one who he called "Father"??? Does this not show that Jesus had fully submitted to God?

reply to post by babloyi


Would you want to be my slave? What if I treated you fairly, would it be justifiable? Would you want me to own one of your female family members.... and since she is my slave I will force myself sexually upon her because after all, she will be lawful for sex because my right hand possesses her.

What say you to slavery? Abraham Lincoln abolished slavery, not Allah.

Are you still going to justify gender equality when I can beat lightly, slap, or smack my woman? My woman is my partner, I respect her more than Allah says to.

See how much "trouble" truth can be? No wonder Islam orders the death of those apostates that cause fitnah. No freedom of speech in Islam either...

So much for Peace, Brotherhood, Freedom, and Equality.