Islam and other things

Ok, so I am generally surprised by a lack of threads regarding Islam in this forum,I mean I think this religion got to do with just about everything ,I am not saying it(Islam) is true or false ,I am not sure of it myself,

At first,this religion claims that Jesus is/was(not sure) one of the Islam prophets ,refuting or disproving this issue has a lot to do with Christianity.

Next, the amount of miracles or maybe "miracle-like" things depending on your perspective is quite impressive I would say.For example:

www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

I am pretty sure there is more.Just google it.


If not mistaken,the Islamic G-d even challenges us to write a book as good as Qur'an ,claiming that even if all human and jinn band up together,none can replicate it.

But I am kinda curious how some religion like Buddhism fit into the picture or is there any other religion like Bahai' as continuation of Islam(I am aware of Prophet Muhammad saying that there are no prophets or apostles after him, please aware that afaik Jesus(whether he is christian/muslim/gnostic) does not say that )

As for Buddhism ,the Buddha after being asked by his disciples about G-d ,he said that it is not important to know since it does not lead to nirvana .And there is one time he said that we should not believe everything said unless it agrees with our own logic even if HE HIMSELF said it,now I think Buddha is a great and wise teacher,could he left something as important as worshipping G-d out of the picture if it is real and important as prescribed by especially the abrahamic religions???Again,I could have remember certain things wrongly,google what I said just to confirm it.

Alright that is it for now,keeping in mind,I am not saying it is true or false, I am just sharing what I know and remember DENY IGNORANCE.

Originally posted by QuantumSeeker
Ok, so I am generally surprised by a lack of threads regarding Islam in this forum,I mean I think this religion got to do with just about everything ,I am not saying it(Islam) is true or false ,I am not sure of it myself,

The reason for this is probably the high ratio of Christians/Atheists/Other Assorted Non-Muslims to our relatively small Muslim population.

The Atheists and Christians are always at eachothers throats here, leaving little time to bash other religions.

Buddhism and other Eastern or New-Age philosophies are sort of off on the sidelines with the Namaste crowd nodding in agreement with eachother and the occasional baffled non-believer.

Some of our Muslims will occasionally speak out against attrocities commited by Muslims in the middle east, but otherwise are not as vocal about their beliefs as the other groups. Non-Muslims jump into threads about such topics and begin generalizing, saying all Muslims believe in stoning people to death for non-criminal offences and such nonsense. The Muslims politely reply that they do not support it, and go on denying ignorance rather than wasting time on the unshakable ignorance of their religious opposers.

reply to post by Glass


I see,so what is your thoughts of NDEs??? I don't think it fits muslim afterlife am I right??? what about reincarnation ,there are quite a lot of claims of reincarnations ,people remembering what is their previous lives are like,which is does not seem to fit the Islam idea of barzakh.

reply to post by QuantumSeeker
that is a rather large collections of thoughts into one post ..you might want to narrow it down and be a little more specific ...peace

Originally posted by the2ofusr1
reply to post by QuantumSeeker

 

that is a rather large collections of thoughts into one post ..you might want to narrow it down and be a little more specific ...peace

I mean well in Islam is barzakh what we experience after we die??? basically we just stay there until Judgment Day?? What about babies or kids that die ,isn't it too early to judge them??? On the other hand, reincarnation (some early muslims believe in it afaik) sounds logical to me,since 1) Person will reborn until he is fit to break off the cycle 2) there are people who claimed to be reincarnated and have memories of past lives.

reply to post by QuantumSeeker
I am not overley familar about the islam doctrins .I am of the Christian faith ,and was just lurking to see a islam conversation ...one of my sons is practicing Islam ,and we get together every now and again and talk about it but I am not versed in it ...peace

Originally posted by QuantumSeeker
reply to post by Glass

 

I see,so what is your thoughts of NDEs??? I don't think it fits muslim afterlife am I right??? what about reincarnation ,there are quite a lot of claims of reincarnations ,people remembering what is their previous lives are like,which is does not seem to fit the Islam idea of barzakh.

Near death experiences are subjective and unique for each individual. I'm inclined to believe scientific theory that NDE's are the result of pre-death releases of '___' which induce visual and aural hallucinations. The content of a NDE depends largely on the individual's beliefs, experiences and subconscious, so while one person might see Jesus and their Grandmother at the pearly gates, another person might see their energy returning to the universe, or something entirely different.

As for reincarnation, I'm not sure what to believe. There is no explanation based on any known facts that can tell how people can access memories that are not native to their physical form.

Memories are stored in the brain, so when one dies their memories should be lost. With reincarnation, we assume that after death the soul is transfered to a new body, so in theory the memories should be left behind. But somehow some people remember their past lives, so either these people have some access to their memories through an omniscient being, or the soul carries memories with it from body to body. If the latter is true, then why do most of us not remember our past lives?

Of course all Abrahamic religions do not believe in reincarnation because it is their belief that the soul proceeds to some final destination after death rather than returning to the physical plane.

Originally posted by QuantumSeeker
Ok, so I am generally surprised by a lack of threads regarding Islam in this forum,I mean I think this religion got to do with just about everything ,I am not saying it(Islam) is true or false ,I am not sure of it myself,

At first,this religion claims that Jesus is/was(not sure) one of the Islam prophets ,refuting or disproving this issue has a lot to do with Christianity.

Next, the amount of miracles or maybe "miracle-like" things depending on your perspective is quite impressive I would say.For example:

www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

I am pretty sure there is more.Just google it.


If not mistaken,the Islamic G-d even challenges us to write a book as good as Qur'an ,claiming that even if all human and jinn band up together,none can replicate it.

But I am kinda curious how some religion like Buddhism fit into the picture or is there any other religion like Bahai' as continuation of Islam(I am aware of Prophet Muhammad saying that there are no prophets or apostles after him, please aware that afaik Jesus(whether he is christian/muslim/gnostic) does not say that )

As for Buddhism ,the Buddha after being asked by his disciples about G-d ,he said that it is not important to know since it does not lead to nirvana .And there is one time he said that we should not believe everything said unless it agrees with our own logic even if HE HIMSELF said it,now I think Buddha is a great and wise teacher,could he left something as important as worshipping G-d out of the picture if it is real and important as prescribed by especially the abrahamic religions???Again,I could have remember certain things wrongly,google what I said just to confirm it.

Alright that is it for now,keeping in mind,I am not saying it is true or false, I am just sharing what I know and remember DENY IGNORANCE.

edit on 30-1-2012 by QuantumSeeker because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-1-2012 by QuantumSeeker because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-1-2012 by QuantumSeeker because: (no reason given)

im going 2 make a thread about islam this week,
we need to have more islam talk on ATS n forget about chris

one of the main problems with islam is the following, how r non clasical arabic spaking people post 2 know this is the word of God, reason why i say that is cuzin order for us to KNOW this book is the verbatim, the literal, word for word word of God creator of the heavens n the earth we must excel in clasical arabic, muslims can tell us all about scientific linguisctic miracles etc, but until we dont KNOW the lanugage all of this means sh** 2 us doesnt it?

Originally posted by QuantumSeeker
reply to post by Glass

 

I see,so what is your thoughts of NDEs??? I don't think it fits muslim afterlife am I right??? what about reincarnation ,there are quite a lot of claims of reincarnations ,people remembering what is their previous lives are like,which is does not seem to fit the Islam idea of barzakh.

Would you like the Quranic verses regarding the afterlife?
Surah 4 Ayah 115 And whoever opposes the Messenger after guidance has become clear to him and follows other than the way of the believers - We will give him what he has taken and drive him into Hell, and evil it is as a destination.

This is clearly telling us we can never oppose Mohammed. That is what Mohammed told them.


Surah 4 Ayah 140

He hath already revealed unto you in the Scripture that, when ye hear the revelations of Allah rejected and derided, (ye) sit not with them (who disbelieve and mock) until they engage in some other conversation. Lo! in that case (if ye stayed) ye would be like unto them. Lo! Allah will gather hypocrites and disbelievers, all together, into hell;

So a person goes to hell for not believing Mohammed is the apostle. There is a belief in the afterlife, only good Muslims who do not oppose Mohammed can go to heaven.

Originally posted by WarminIndy
Surah 4 Ayah 140

He hath already revealed unto you in the Scripture that, when ye hear the revelations of Allah rejected and derided, (ye) sit not with them (who disbelieve and mock) until they engage in some other conversation. Lo! in that case (if ye stayed) ye would be like unto them. Lo! Allah will gather hypocrites and disbelievers, all together, into hell;

I guess this is why you don't see many Muslims in threads like these; if we say anything against Allah they are obligated to leave the conversation.

reply to post by Glass
I have a question about Islam ..is there such a thing as Islam apologist ? I am just curious ...peace

Originally posted by 0thetrooth0

Originally posted by QuantumSeeker
Ok, so I am generally surprised by a lack of threads regarding Islam in this forum,I mean I think this religion got to do with just about everything ,I am not saying it(Islam) is true or false ,I am not sure of it myself,

At first,this religion claims that Jesus is/was(not sure) one of the Islam prophets ,refuting or disproving this issue has a lot to do with Christianity.

Next, the amount of miracles or maybe "miracle-like" things depending on your perspective is quite impressive I would say.For example:

www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

I am pretty sure there is more.Just google it.


If not mistaken,the Islamic G-d even challenges us to write a book as good as Qur'an ,claiming that even if all human and jinn band up together,none can replicate it.

But I am kinda curious how some religion like Buddhism fit into the picture or is there any other religion like Bahai' as continuation of Islam(I am aware of Prophet Muhammad saying that there are no prophets or apostles after him, please aware that afaik Jesus(whether he is christian/muslim/gnostic) does not say that )

As for Buddhism ,the Buddha after being asked by his disciples about G-d ,he said that it is not important to know since it does not lead to nirvana .And there is one time he said that we should not believe everything said unless it agrees with our own logic even if HE HIMSELF said it,now I think Buddha is a great and wise teacher,could he left something as important as worshipping G-d out of the picture if it is real and important as prescribed by especially the abrahamic religions???Again,I could have remember certain things wrongly,google what I said just to confirm it.

Alright that is it for now,keeping in mind,I am not saying it is true or false, I am just sharing what I know and remember DENY IGNORANCE.

edit on 30-1-2012 by QuantumSeeker because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-1-2012 by QuantumSeeker because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-1-2012 by QuantumSeeker because: (no reason given)

im going 2 make a thread about islam this week,
we need to have more islam talk on ATS n forget about chris

one of the main problems with islam is the following, how r non clasical arabic spaking people post 2 know this is the word of God, reason why i say that is cuzin order for us to KNOW this book is the verbatim, the literal, word for word word of God creator of the heavens n the earth we must excel in clasical arabic, muslims can tell us all about scientific linguisctic miracles etc, but until we dont KNOW the lanugage all of this means sh** 2 us doesnt it?

I thimk you should create an Islam thread if this thread is not popular enough,I am not very good at words,I am afraid my original post is not good enough to keep people reading.

reply to post by QuantumSeeker


In my opinion, Islam is a false, man-made religion.

Sexism:
Islam says women must obey their husbands, and the husband may beat his wife if she disobeys. A female's word is only equal to half a man's, meaning two women equal one man.

Slavery:
Allah allows human slavery.

Inequality:
Non-Muslims must pay a Jizyah tax to live in an Islamic society. Muslims are ordered by Allah to "do not take Christians and Jews as dear or trusted friends."



Allah challenged us to write a book better than the Qur'an? Well, did you know that in the Qur'an Allah contradicts himself and even changes his mind about his own words? In Islam they call this "abrogation" instead of what it really is; editing and contradicting.

Originally posted by Sahabi
reply to post by QuantumSeeker

 

In my opinion, Islam is a false, man-made religion.

Sexism:
Islam says women must obey their husbands, and the husband may beat his wife if she disobeys. A female's word is only equal to half a man's, meaning two women equal one man.

Slavery:
Allah allows human slavery.

Inequality:
Non-Muslims must pay a Jizyah tax to live in an Islamic society. Muslims are ordered by Allah to "do not take Christians and Jews as dear or trusted friends."



Allah challenged us to write a book better than the Qur'an? Well, did you know that in the Qur'an Allah contradicts himself and even changes his mind about his own words? In Islam they call this "abrogation" instead of what it really is; editing and contradicting.

Well,I might think it could be a man made religion but in the Qur'an ,there are scientific info and mathematical wonders which people(normal human beings) at that time couldn't have known ,I thought of aliens before but then again I saw this www.miraclesofislam.com...

Originally posted by QuantumSeeker
Next, the amount of miracles or maybe "miracle-like" things depending on your perspective is quite impressive I would say.For example:

www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

I am pretty sure there is more.Just google it.

Here i can't understand what do u want exactly, but
More about prophet Muhammad miracles;

From amongst them was the Qur'ân, the manifest and clear miracle and brilliant proof, falsehood cannot approach it from before it or behind it. It is a revelation from One Who is All-Wise and Praiseworthy. It incapacitated the most eloquent of people in the most eloquent of times to produce a single chapter than would be comparable to it, even if the whole of creation were to gather for that purpose. Allâh, the Exalted says,

"Say: if the whole of mankind and the jinn gathered in order to produce the like of this Qur'ân, they could not produce the like of it, even if they assisted each other." [Al-Isrâ' (17):88]

It challenged them to this despite their large numbers, their eloquence and their severe enmity, and it challenges them to this day.

As for the other miracles, it is not possible to enumerate them all due to their huge number and renewing and increasing nature. I will mention some examples:

The splitting of the moon, water flowing from between his fingers, increasing the quantity of food and water, the glorification of the food, the palm tree yearning for him, stones greeting him, the talking of the poisoned leg [of roasted sheep], trees walking towards him, two trees that were far apart coming together and then parting again, the barren [and therefore dry] sheep giving milk, his returning the eye of Qatâdah bin an-Nu'mân to its place with his hand after it had slipped out, his splitting lightly into the eye of 'Alî when it had become inflamed and its being cured almost immediately, his wiping the leg of 'Abdullâh bin 'Atîq whereupon he was immediately cured.

His informing of the places of death of the polytheists on the Day of Badr saying, 'this is the place of such-and-such a person.' His informing of his killing Ubayy ibn Khalaf, that a group of his nation would traverse an ocean and Umm Harâm would be amongst them and this occurred. That all was drawn together for him of the ends of the earth and displayed to him would be opened for his nation, that the treasures of Chosroes would be spend by his nation in the Way of Allâh, the Mighty and Magnificent. That he feared for his nation that they would be tempted by the wealth and allurement of this world and that the treasures of the Persians and Romans would be ours and that Surâqah bin Mâlik would wear the trousers of Chosroes.

here are some links on what you are searching for:
onlydeenislam.wordpress.com...
abdurrahman.org...
www.islamreligion.com...
www.discoveringislam.org...
rasoulallah.net...
www.scribd.com...

Sincere advice, If u want to search for islam, use this site:
bemuslims.weebly.com...

Originally posted by QuantumSeeker

Originally posted by Sahabi
reply to post by QuantumSeeker

 

In my opinion, Islam is a false, man-made religion.

Sexism:
Islam says women must obey their husbands, and the husband may beat his wife if she disobeys. A female's word is only equal to half a man's, meaning two women equal one man.

Slavery:
Allah allows human slavery.

Inequality:
Non-Muslims must pay a Jizyah tax to live in an Islamic society. Muslims are ordered by Allah to "do not take Christians and Jews as dear or trusted friends."



Allah challenged us to write a book better than the Qur'an? Well, did you know that in the Qur'an Allah contradicts himself and even changes his mind about his own words? In Islam they call this "abrogation" instead of what it really is; editing and contradicting.

Well,I might think it could be a man made religion but in the Qur'an ,there are scientific info and mathematical wonders which people(normal human beings) at that time couldn't have known ,I thought of aliens before but then again I saw this www.miraclesofislam.com...

u only say dat cuz thats what u hear muslims say, its not like ur well versed in clasical arabic n with ur own 2 eyes looked at Quran with an unbiased mind n saw scientific n math miracles urself?

Originally posted by the2ofusr1
reply to post by QuantumSeeker

 

I am not overley familar about the islam doctrins .I am of the Christian faith ,and was just lurking to see a islam conversation ...one of my sons is practicing Islam ,and we get together every now and again and talk about it but I am not versed in it ...peace

They do not believe Christ is God. Apparently they think the book of John is a bunch of lies. Specifically verses like John 8:54-59 where Jesus says Abraham was pleased to see Christ's Sabbath days and that he was there with Abraham and the part where Jesus says "I AM the Living God".

reply to post by QuantumSeeker


The word "Allah" written on fish, on trees, cactus, or the clouds is no miracle. That is coincidental imagery. I see images of Jesus, smiley faces, and even Mickey Mouse on all types of things.

If you think the Qur'an is a miracle because it has some type of scientific or mathematical knowledge that nobody knew about.... how do you explain the pyramids of Giza, or Stonehenge, or the Mayan Calendar, or Machu Picchu, or Teotihuacan, or the Antikythera mechanism, or the Vedas? What about the scientific knowledge of H.G. Wells?

Expand your knowledge! There is ancient knowledge much more advanced and much older than the Qur'an.

That is how Islam tricks people. It mixes in wisdom and so-called miracles with sexism, slavery, oppression, murder, violence, bigotry, prejudice, and religious supremacy.

reply to post by Anonymousman


what is the thing about "wear the trousers of Chosroes."??? sounds a bit weird lol

reply to post by Sahabi

Hey Sahabi!

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with much of what you said!

Sexism:
While Islam certainly assigns general gender roles to both parties in a marriage (although this does not restrict any one party from doing something else), there is certainly nothing about women must obey their husbands. I am assuming you are talking about Sura Nisa, verse 34? People very often misunderstand that to being "obedient to the husband". But the word used there, and everywhere else it is used in the Quran (all the variants of qaf nun tay) ALWAYS refers to obedience to God. This is assumed, even when the "to God" part is not included in the sentence (as it is in 4:34, and several other verses). This is why you'll see many translators simply translate it as "devout" instead.

As for beating wives, that is really not true. The word used in the Quran can be read as "hitting" or can be taken to be "slapping" (especially considering that in the Hadith and Sunna it is elaborated that it cannot be done hard, you cannot leave a mark, or attempt it at any vital area), and is only meant to be done as a very last resort. BEATING your wife is certainly not allowed, as can be evidenced by plenty of hadith on the matter.

As far as a woman being only worth half a man, again, this is really not true. In ONE situation, regarding ONE sort of document, it is required that if two men are not available, there should be 1 man and two women. This certainly doesn't mean that the word of a woman is worth half of that of a man, or that a woman is less than equal to a man. This can be clearly evidenced by the fact that it is in the Quran that if a husband accuses a wife of adultery, and the wife denies it, while they may be divorced if they wish, the legal stand is to side with the wife (that no adultery occurred). This can also be evidenced that in the requirement for 4 witnesses for adultery, it just says 4 witnesses, not specifying male or female (even when you take into account the grammar), and not saying anything about "or 1 man and 6 women".

Slavery:
It is interesting to note that out of all the Abrahamic religions (and probably most religions addressing the issue), Islam is the only one to place such an emphasis on the manumission of slaves as a good deed, and something that should be done regularly (to the extent that according to traditions, Muhammad and his household freed almost 40,000 slaves), even if you have to buy them from their owners first. Judaism goes halfway there, in that its scriptures originally said that if the slave is jewish, he should be released after 7 years (although this being compulsory was later removed as well), and Christianity doesn't address it at all (except insofar as saying that slaves should obey their masters like Christ and that they should try freeing themselves from non-Christian masters).

Inequality:
During times of war, if they are part of a conquered party and need to be and are protected, then yes, non-muslims are required to give a tax. As far as not taking them as "dear or trusted friends", I am sure you know that the Quran says no such thing. It uses a term that can bet translated as "friends", yes, but it also is used in terms of, (and makes more sense in the context) "protectors".

As far as abrogation goes, it is kinda funny that you say this, considering the Quran itself says that there is no abrogation. Notwithstanding trends that emerged much after the death of Muhammad, thankfully, Islamic scholarship is finally returning and understanding this point.

I hope you don't mind that I went into such detail, Sahabi.. I only do so since you say you are a former muslim, so you'll probably have a reference to know what I am talking about. I realise you say you followed the salafi strain of Islam, and certainly, much of what I say here is in contradiction to the Salafist strain, but then again, I'd say they've got quite a few concepts wrong. I'd consider idea that Salafi islam is somehow "truer" and "closer to the original" (something you were probably taught) to not really be true.