We've had enough, it's time to raise your own kids, teachers say

Originally posted by Yacov
The first schools were all Bible based- that's what made America great. Book of proverbs is a good start for all but the whole meal is Jesus and still is , and will be forever!
shalom
y

Separation of church and state. If you ram christianity down the throat of anyone it will backfire.

Though the good book would be great for homeschooled lessons. However in a classroom setting it is offensive to teach it as a whole.

The reason being is this. If you were a muslim or a jew or a scientologist prick would you like someone forcing their religion down your throat.

reply to post by wutz4tom

Then shutdown all the schools, I dont even want to hear any teacher bitching about their job...you know what you signed up for. No wonder we have so many criminals because the school systems basically teaches you to be a outcast.

Originally posted by Evanzsayz
reply to post by wutz4tom

 

. No wonder we have so many criminals because the school systems basically teaches you to be a outcast.

That or teaches you to feel super important. My brother the abercrombie and fich butthole and me the dissenting opinion agaist norms nutcase.

Thats how they saw things. If i done so much as fart in class i had to go to the office. My brother could have sex on the principals desk and he would watch the door.

Bit of an exageration but you see where this leads.

The rage and frustration over the unfairness of the situation.

Reply to post by Skewed

So, your "answer" is to disband the very organization responsible for educational oversight?

You gotta be kidding me! This will not address the problem of parents who cannto discipline their kids.




Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

I'd prefer that states crack down more on rotten parents.

You all seem to miss the logic because you just want the gov't out of your lives.




Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by Evanzsayz


If you shut down the schools you've created 100 x more problems than we have now... Don't you think that there are at least Somecases where the best structure in a childs life is in fact in the school? I Do

A serious overhaul perhaps....The initial foundation has to come from the parents.

Originally posted by Evanzsayz
reply to post by wutz4tom

 

Then shutdown all the schools, I dont even want to hear any teacher bitching about their job...you know what you signed up for. No wonder we have so many criminals because the school systems basically teaches you to be a outcast.

I'm sorry for whatever bad experience you had Evanzsayz, but not all teachers treat their students as criminals. I will go as far as saying that most teachers don't treat their students as criminals. If you want to have more criminals on the street, then shut down every school in the nation. This country will turn into an uneducated, uncivilized group of goons in under 20 years.

And in reality, we signed up to make a difference in children's lives. We signed up to educate to the best of our ability, and we signed up to perhaps change the social intolerance that is still plaguing this country (at least I did). Teachers are the second line of defense against a chaotic system where people aren't educated, and parents are the first. Education has, and always will, start at home. There isn't much that we can do from our end if the parents don't give a rat's behind about their offspring.

There are tons of problems with the system, and I freely admit that. However, the "standards" that the government has placed upon our shoulders are nothing more than holding an entire nation's education system for ransom. You do as they say, or they stop your funding, which means no books, no paper/pencils/pens, less qualified teachers, no technology, etc. I bust my butt every day I'm in the classroom to make sure that my students get a well rounded education, from Mozart to arithmetic, George Washington to biology. That's what makes my job great; I have a chance to interact with the future of our country, and quite possibly the world. If even one kid comes out on top, it's made my job worth more than any sort of monetary compensation.

Go back and think real hard. I bet you could think of at least one teacher that had a positive influence in your life (if you can't, I truly feel sorry for you). I can think of at least half a dozen for myself.



-TS

reply to post by wutz4tom

I wasn't being serious about shut down the schools, most of the parents in America can barely tie their own shoes because there like what little kids when they start having babies. But something needs to be done, they teach nothing but nonsense in school. Why don't they start teaching children at a certain grade level how to survive in the REAL world instead of teaching Algebra that 95% of us will never use in our life.

Originally posted by The Sword
Reply to post by Skewed

 

So, your "answer" is to disband the very organization responsible for educational oversight?

You gotta be kidding me! This will not address the problem of parents who cannto discipline their kids.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

Absolutely.

Shut the DOE down, burn it down if need be. I am not sure how old you are, but I am old enough to remember when Jimmy Carter started the damn office and everything has gone down hill since. When the local/state school boards ran things, the system actually worked and I actually learned some things. By the time I had graduated, I could see how the DOE had drug the education system to the sewers. I am only but one that witnessed the effects of creating the DOE from the beginning.

Originally posted by wutz4tom
news.com.au

PARENTS are shirking the responsibility of disciplining their kids, turning teachers into makeshift mums and dads.

A major Herald Sun survey of Victorian teachers found three-quarters believe parents have unreasonable expectations about the school's role in raising kids.

And the stresses are showing, with nearly half of teachers surveyed admitting they had considered resigning over the past 12 months.

Educators say parents have become too fixated on being "friends" with their children, and are increasingly neglecting their duty to enforce boundaries.

Victorian Principals Association president Gabrielle Leigh believes students are increasingly likely to be sent to school without adequate discipline from home.

"It's well beyond the duty of a teacher, but they can't ignore it," Ms Leigh said.

Is this wrong to say that parents need to step up and take charge in raising the children once again?
I say no it's not and tend to agree with what they are saying. But, I also understand why in some cases they have gotten away from some forms of discipline out of fear of being labeled an abuser.
Although I don't think trying to be friends with your kids is a bad thing...but there has to be boundaries.

Read more: www.news.com.au...

edit on 30-1-2012 by wutz4tom because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-1-2012 by wutz4tom because: (no reason given)

In Fact, I could see taking money away money from the self raise giving politicians and using the money to upgrade the requirements and pay of current teachers..If they can help develop children into even more promising you people, everybody wins.

reply to post by wutz4tom


I agree, teachers should be some of the highest paid people out there. In fact, I think it is in our best interest to pay teachers very well, our society and planet depends on it. Provided, the teachings are in alignment with the things that the kids need to learn to be a productive member of society.

reply to post by Skewed


Right, useful information that will help them in life. If you think about it..how many of our jobs will effect such a large number of people for such a long peiod of time.

Originally posted by Skewed
reply to post by wutz4tom

 

I agree, teachers should be some of the highest paid people out there. In fact, I think it is in our best interest to pay teachers very well, our society and planet depends on it. Provided, the teachings are in alignment with the things that the kids need to learn to be a productive member of society.

edit on 31-1-2012 by Skewed because: (no reason given)

Hey Skewed,

I appreciate your thoughts on how teachers should be paid. I would put RN's, Firefighters, and good LEO's up there too. Those of us that spend our lives in the public service sector would very much appreciate being held to that standard, and that pay.

However, it is my experience that money corrupts. I would be happy making a living wage for my area (anywhere between 32,000-55,000 a year). At 55K, I'd be practically living like a king in my area. I understand that in some industries, paying more means that you'll get the best and brightest. In the teaching field, there is a level of passion and love for the job that can't compare to other industries when dealing with level of pay. I personally didn't get into it for the money. I want to work with kids, and I want to help them succeed in all facets of their lives. To get paid for that is icing on the cake. I fear that if word got out that the education path is very lucrative compensation wide, that everybody will want to get into the field. What I mean by that is that any person could theoretically get through school by the skin of their teeth, realizing that they'll be paid a high sum of money. I could almost say that the quality of education would drop further if the compensation were to reach the level of administrators and some specialty engineering jobs, if only for the reason that I stated above. Perhaps a modest base pay increase of 10K (and that is being very modest, considering all the work we do outside of school) and more money being put into new books, technology, and ongoing teacher training would be a better investment. We can only do so much with what we are given, and in this day and age, technology is the tool with which we must teach, if we have any hope of educating today's youth.

I guess I'll keep waiting with bated breath to see what happens in this country. I'm just a substitute teacher at this point, but I'm almost convinced that I want to return to the field full time.


-TS

reply to post by truthseeker1984


I hear you and I agree with you as well. You are right, it takes a special person to do this job, just as it does nursing and other fields. The amount of pay is open to discussion as we would not want teachers doing this job just for the money. But what I think needs to happen is to find a way to weed out the people that does not have the aptitude to do the job. I am not sure how to go about it, but if there were a way to put people through the paces before they actually get to teaching and see if they have what it takes(student teachers does not seem to be working). Raise the bar so to speak, and if the person cannot effectively achieve the standards that the community has set, then they do not teach plain and simple. I do not know, is there a way to throw a potential teacher to the wolves and see how they react before giving them their own classroom and before they even have a chance to do any damage?

reply to post by Skewed

I hear you and I agree with you as well. You are right, it takes a special person to do this job, just as it does nursing and other fields. The amount of pay is open to discussion as we would not want teachers doing this job just for the money. But what I think needs to happen is to find a way to weed out the people that does not have the aptitude to do the job. I am not sure how to go about it, but if there were a way to put people through the paces before they actually get to teaching and see if they have what it takes(student teachers does not seem to be working). Raise the bar so to speak, and if the person cannot effectively achieve the standards that the community has set, then they do not teach plain and simple. I do not know, is there a way to throw a potential teacher to the wolves and see how they react before giving them their own classroom and before they even have a chance to do any damage?

I can't think of anything else. There are mandatory mentor teacher programs in place in New York State, but I do not know about other states. It is the mentor teacher's responsibility to look after the new teacher, make sure they get acclimated, and learn the ropes so to speak. Unfortunately, there is no type of pre-experience that will help up and coming teachers rise into their job as a professional. As they say, life is the best experience, and this is the way that it is. Teaching is all about trial and error, learning about each kid, learning their strengths and weaknesses, and constant self-review coupled with peer review. No amount of college course work will prepare a teacher for their first classroom experience. I know that was certainly the case with me, but then again, I have a natural talent of working with kids. Many of my colleagues say that I act more like a 10 year teacher instead of a 3 year teacher. I'm not tooting my own horn by saying that. I really do have a knack with kids. Kinda like a pied-piper. That isn't the case with some educators.

I think some things that could change is having a separate set of certifications for the privilege of working at the secondary level. I do believe that all first year teachers (some of them barely older than high school seniors) should be required to work at the elementary level for a minimum of 3-4 years. That would alleviate a lot of the pressure of being barely older than your students. After this 3-4 year period, these teachers could apply for a secondary license to be able to work at a secondary level if they so wish. Now, before I go on, there are certifications for elementary general ed. (which is what I am going to try to work on starting this fall), and secondary education in all the various subjects. The one exception (at least in New York State) is Music certification, which is my main field. Music certification is for K-12, and we are required to student teach at both levels during our last year of undergrad. Those that are only focusing on the elementary or secondary level need only to student teach at those levels respectively. If a prospective teacher wants to teach at the secondary level, like I said, they should have to "go through the ropes" at the elementary level. Or, there could be an age requirement put in place. That may help, at least a little bit.

With all my rambling, you can see that there is no easy answer to this. Being thrown to the wolves is literally your first year of teaching. That is why there is a mandatory three year probationary period for all new teachers. I wish I had an easy answer, but there really isn't.

-TS

Originally posted by wutz4tom
news.com.au


Read more: www.news.com.au...

edit on 30-1-2012 by wutz4tom because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-1-2012 by wutz4tom because: (no reason given)

Teacher Accused Of Racial Discrimination On Paid Leave

minnesota.cbslocal.com...

MINNEAPOLIS (WCCO) – A St. Paul teacher is on paid leave after being accused of racial discrimination in his own classroom.

Parents of some black students said their children have faced discrimination for months at the Heights Community School.

Latasha Tolbert said sixth grade teacher Tim Olmsted told her daughter that she’d be standing on the corner with a sign begging for money on the expressway.

“He told the whole entire class that it is easier for him to teach rich white folks than poor black people,” Tolbert said.

Tolbert said the discrimination started in her daughter’s class months ago. At the time, five of the students in Olmsted’s class were black. Tolbert said all of them were singled out at some point for the color of their skin.

link
This is an example of some of the out of touch minds that are making it into teaching positions..
The kind that make them all look bad and Should be weeded out.
Is this the message we want our children learning in school.?
How are they going to feel toward other races as adults?

Originally posted by BulletShogun

Originally posted by Yacov
The first schools were all Bible based- that's what made America great. Book of proverbs is a good start for all but the whole meal is Jesus and still is , and will be forever!
shalom
y

Separation of church and state. If you ram christianity down the throat of anyone it will backfire.

Though the good book would be great for homeschooled lessons. However in a classroom setting it is offensive to teach it as a whole.

The reason being is this. If you were a muslim or a jew or a scientologist prick would you like someone forcing their religion down your throat.

Your forgetting one thing: Those were voluntary schools. But atheist's and others wouldn't be able to have their own schools because of their low population and thin distribution across the country. So the real motivation is surfacing: forcing the majority to cater to a public, secular system because those who want said system could afford it unless the Christians where made to foot the bill for it.

Went to private religious school in the 70s and got a great education, if a bit lacking in science. Then on to public school and what a shock. I had never seen kids behave so badly. I braced myself for all hell to break loose the first time a boy mouthed off to the teacher and all he got was detention. I saw him and the others who were being punished in there while i was there working on a project at the same time. They kept screwing around and being told to shush for an hour. That's it. Found out next day nothing happened to them when they got home either. It was very frustrating to lose 1/2 to sometimes 1/3 of classtime while the same people got spoken to over and over followed by time lost for a referral to be written and the offender sent to the office. Being respectful of adults and the learning environment was ingrained. My mother taught me to behave and it made those tough years more productive for me. School should not be expected to teach kids how to behave in a civil manner. That is education that should be gotten at home.

I work in a college town and the kids I have to deal with are, more often than not, spoiled brats with a strong sense of entitlement. Don't know what kind of grades they get, but they demonstrate again and again that they have no idea how to interact appropriately. They can't handle anything and when they have their parents come to their rescue, they are too often just as bad as their kids.

reply to post by wutz4tom


My thoughts. Children are in school from the hours of 7:30am till about 2:30pm, thats a total of 7 hours. How do teachers expect to have children with them for 7 hours and not do any sort of disciplining? or raising? My daughter has had the same teacher for 2 years, and has clearly picked up many of her gestures and habits, why? because she spends 7 hours a day, 5 days a week with the woman. Guess what teachers? you have to discipline children...all the time. Your not a just a teacher, your job is not just to stand up from your desk, give a lesson and sit back down. Find another job if this bothers you.

Well, I am not a teacher, so I can really only offer a layperson's perspective.

I think the problem that the teachers are experiencing; and I am not trying to excuse the parent's, is a problem with multiple causing factors.

For one, it has only really been through the eighties and nineties that we began to really see the phenomena of "latch key kids";children from either single parent homes or homes where both parents work at a full time job. And with the constantly degrading economy and the devaluation of our currency through the late nineties into the millennium, it has only made more and more people work harder and harder just to stay afloat, which in turn has added greatly to the number of "latch key kids" in this current generation. The fact is; right or wrong, "latch key kids" on average will probably spend more continuous hours with their teachers, then their parents. On top of that both parent's will often be to tired from a full days work to be able to really discipline and pay the proper attention to their kids. Now, like I said earlier I am not trying to excuse the parents, but I do believe the problem has a much bigger and deeper root,then just "rotten" parents, it's more like overworked parents.

Another problem I see is that the school system has become obsessed with a test. The test sets their rating and in turn determines how much money the get or if their school may even be closed. This has caused all of the schools to work so hard to get the kids to past this single stupid test, that they in turn cut other programs and classes to instead teach the test. One of the classes that has been severely cut and limited in a great majority of schools is P.E.; physical education. In fact in many schools now, kids only get maybe one or two P.E. classes a week. If there is one thing any parent can tell you about a child it is that they are full of energy. It practically radiates from their body.They need physical activity and a great deal of it to burn off that energy. The thing is if they don't get P.E. once a day at least, to burn off some of that energy of course they are going to be hyper and distracted. Of course unfortunately the education system's answer, instead of adding more physical classes and activities again, is to instead suggest the kids should be drugged with ritalin. I am pretty sure, that if we took most of those; but not all, "hyperactive" kids and gave them morning calisthenics and an after lunch P.E. class, a lot of that so called hyper activity would disappear.

Now that is just my layperson's perspective to the problem. I do know one thing the US has a huge problem with the way we are raising our children, and for their and future generations sake, we should all collectively get off our rears and do something about it.