Australia's Military Alliance With United States Must End.

Originally posted by Jace26

Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
I am gonna step in this thread as an American for a bit.

From my point of view I would very much like for out allies to have aircraft carriers especially the Commonwealth countries as it would take a lot of the pressure off our military and economy. To be fair Commonwealth countries are our only true allies and the only ones that do anything substantial.

I do not get all the America hate from the Australian side though, I get the fact you do not like being seen as doing the bidding of America and I do not feel that your guys should be sent into harms way if your people do not want that, personally I do not want our guys in a lot of they places they are involved in either.

I do not get the deal where the Americans did not do anything in the Pacific theatre of WW II. Americans were on New Guinea in February of 1942 and 7000 Americans died fighting on that Island in support of Australia.

Currently there are plans to have a base on Australia with 2,500 marines stationed there. Probably be good for the local economy with jobs and what not as The American government will spend a bit of money there, and 2,500 marines are not gonna occupy Australia.

Look at it from our perspective. We fight in your wars, make ourselves enemies where we shouldn't have any, and are never mentioned by any American for our role.
For about 2 years at the beginning of WW2, the Australian navy was effectively representing the entire allied force of the Pacific, fighting against the Japanese on their own.
The battles of Buna, Gona, Sanananda were all considered to be great AMERICAN victories despite ignoring Australians doing most of the fighting. Americans were even reported to have cowered in the grass while the Australians charged.
Macarthur is deemed to be a great American general, oh please, from our perspective he is a failure and a coward. Fleeing the Philipines with thousands of American dead before coming here and declaring our troops (who were little equipped compared to the Americans) cowards. It was Australians who defeated Japan and were the first to not only halt their advance but turn them back.
While Americans continue to make movies about how they saved the south pacific nations and how proud they should be.

7000 did not die defending Australia, as the "Battle for Australia" had already been won. They died for American national interests, and as your policies go, it says any nation that may be a threat to Americas economic, or military superiority is a threat. Which includes Australia, I'm more worried about America declaring we're housing terrorists and attacking us than the Chinese.

Originally posted by Jace26
Macarthur is deemed to be a great American general, oh please, from our perspective he is a failure and a coward.

Especially after the stunts he pulled with our Z Special Unit, who were the most effective force during the war. He left a Z special team to die on an island after a compromise. They radioed in for help and he ignored them. Needless to say, all the Special forces on that island either died that day or were POF, and eventually got executed.

Thanks to General Douglas Macarthur, incidents such as this happened:



Now, this Australian soldier here was a member of both Z and M Special Units. This execution was not directly linked to Macarthur, but many Aussies fell to this exact same fate thanks to him. In fact, can you believe that The History Channel, an American Channel showed this image and claimed this fine bloke as an American! I was appalled. This is thought to be the only surviving image of an Allied Soldier dieing at the hands of the Japanese

reply to post by daaskapital


Absolutely disgraceful that they claimed him as an American. Yet they continue to make propaganda movies claiming how they saved Australia and other nations, which is absolute bull#.

Their latest piece of propaganda was the series "The Pacific" in which it showed NO Australians at all, and merely labeled them as "All off fighting in North Africa". Which is completely historically wrong.

Australians were fighting in North Africa in the earliest stages of the war but once the "Battle for Australia" had begun they were entirely evacuated home to defend.

Originally posted by Jace26
reply to post by daaskapital

 

Absolutely disgraceful that they claimed him as an American. Yet they continue to make propaganda movies claiming how they saved Australia and other nations, which is absolute bull#.

Their latest piece of propaganda was the series "The Pacific" in which it showed NO Australians at all, and merely labeled them as "All off fighting in North Africa". Which is completely historically wrong.

Australians were fighting in North Africa in the earliest stages of the war but once the "Battle for Australia" had begun they were pretty much evacuated home to defend.

Agreed mate, i was shocked.

You've got to be #ting me! No mention of Aussies in the Pacific? WTF!!!

I'm sick of the Americans and their propaganda, most of them don't even know that we were there in Vietnam, or the Pacific (WW2) let alone in Afghanistan today.

I do not want you guys feeling like the 53rd state that is for certain. I get a bit irritated with some Australian views of the battles on New Guinea because my grandfather fought there and was badly wounded, so I get a little touchy when I am told America did not contribute there.

I will not disagree with your views on Mac Arthur though I think his conduct was disgraceful in the Philippines and his award of the Medal of Honor was a crock of #. Truth is since his father had been awarded the Medal of Honor during the American Civil War and America needed some kind of hero in the beginning of the war is the only reason he was awarded the thing. The heroes of the Philippines were they guys he left behind to die.

As things are today America is damned no matter what we do, intervene and we are invading and being Nazi like, do nothing and we are not being responsible.

Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
I do not want you guys feeling like the 53rd state that is for certain. I get a bit irritated with some Australian views of the battles on New Guinea because my grandfather fought there and was badly wounded, so I get a little touchy when I am told America did not contribute there.

I will not disagree with your views on Mac Arthur though I think his conduct was disgraceful in the Philippines and his award of the Medal of Honor was a crock of #. Truth is since his father had been awarded the Medal of Honor during the American Civil War and America needed some kind of hero in the beginning of the war is the only reason he was awarded the thing. The heroes of the Philippines were they guys he left behind to die.

As things are today America is damned no matter what we do, intervene and we are invading and being Nazi like, do nothing and we are not being responsible.

America did contribute to New Guinea however, showed up after the major battles for Australia were fought (It doesn't mean that there weren't any more battle fought, there was).But the truth is, the USA in both World Wars showed up at the end, to apparently save the day, when in factc, the countries beforehand pushed the enemies back, and the USA had the last shot once hey were weakened.

I agree with your standpoints on Macarthur.

reply to post by daaskapital


Im not being Anti-American but the total rubbish that is churned out of American cinamas just to give them a "good feeling" that they saved our nation is not only historically wrong but propaganda to say the least.

If Americans want us to fight in their wars, then at least have the common courtesy to acknowledge we were even there!!

Originally posted by Jace26
reply to post by daaskapital

 

Im not being Anti-American but the total rubbish that is churned out of American cinamas just to give them a "good feeling" that they saved our nation is not only historically wrong but propaganda to say the least.

If Americans want us to fight in their wars, then at least have the common courtesy to acknowledge we were even there!!

Agreed mate

reply to post by Jace26

Wow a LOT of arrogance in that post right there.
Americas greatest ally over the past 70 years has been Australia not Britain, remember Britain never helped you during the Vietnam war.
Australia has fought for America in EVERY conflict YOU started since WW2. How many conflicts has Australia started that America fought in? Hmm let me think, ZERO!!!
So therefore we have been the greatest allies to you, we don't ask for money, we don't ask for glory(not that we are ever mentioned anyway), we don't ask for weapons or nukes or anything. Pretty good friends if you ask me, you should hang on to them since you don't have many these days.

Wow! I am not disputing any of what you are saying, but wonder why Australia has been standing so steadfastly by the USA?

Is it because Australia believes in the "cause" of every war aggression US launched since WWII? Or they just suspended any independent thought and followed their friend, more like man's best friend?

If the USA needed to do nothing to retain this "friendship" until now, why should they do anything now? And if they do need to do something now to retain this "friendship", what would that be?

Originally posted by Observor
reply to post by Jace26

 

Wow a LOT of arrogance in that post right there.
Americas greatest ally over the past 70 years has been Australia not Britain, remember Britain never helped you during the Vietnam war.
Australia has fought for America in EVERY conflict YOU started since WW2. How many conflicts has Australia started that America fought in? Hmm let me think, ZERO!!!
So therefore we have been the greatest allies to you, we don't ask for money, we don't ask for glory(not that we are ever mentioned anyway), we don't ask for weapons or nukes or anything. Pretty good friends if you ask me, you should hang on to them since you don't have many these days.

Wow! I am not disputing any of what you are saying, but wonder why Australia has been standing so steadfastly by the USA?

Is it because Australia believes in the "cause" of every war aggression US launched since WWII? Or they just suspended any independent thought and followed their friend, more like man's best friend?

If the USA needed to do nothing to retain this "friendship" until now, why should they do anything now? And if they do need to do something now to retain this "friendship", what would that be?

No the Australian Government, or Prime Minister believes in 'the cause' o America's wars.They barely done anything to gain friendship in the first place other than send some troops down here, when we were holding ourselves pretty good.

For certain do not pay much attention to what is produced by American cinema about the War it tends to be a bit to jingoistic its entertainment. The History Channel most certainly is a bit lose with with facts and images also. Your best bet is always reading especially the Unit histories of those involved if you can get them.

Part of the problem with American troops during the Buna Campaign is that they were fresh out of basic training and had been trained for warfare in Europe they we woefully unprepared for jungle warfare. For example my grandfathers unit used mules for transport of pack howitzers and such, in the jungle the mules were basically useless as you could not keep them health and their feet clean enough. While American troops might have been better supplied initially it was soon discovered that they had the wrong supplies for the battle they were in, uniforms were the wrong color, and of the wrong material and a material that was very likely to cause disease in the jungle climate.

Other than Iraq and Afghanistan which wars of Aggression has America launched since WW II?

Originally posted by Observor
reply to post by Jace26

 

Wow a LOT of arrogance in that post right there.
Americas greatest ally over the past 70 years has been Australia not Britain, remember Britain never helped you during the Vietnam war.
Australia has fought for America in EVERY conflict YOU started since WW2. How many conflicts has Australia started that America fought in? Hmm let me think, ZERO!!!
So therefore we have been the greatest allies to you, we don't ask for money, we don't ask for glory(not that we are ever mentioned anyway), we don't ask for weapons or nukes or anything. Pretty good friends if you ask me, you should hang on to them since you don't have many these days.

Wow! I am not disputing any of what you are saying, but wonder why Australia has been standing so steadfastly by the USA?

Is it because Australia believes in the "cause" of every war aggression US launched since WWII? Or they just suspended any independent thought and followed their friend, more like man's best friend?

If the USA needed to do nothing to retain this "friendship" until now, why should they do anything now? And if they do need to do something now to retain this "friendship", what would that be?

The reason Australia has been standing so "Steadfastedly" with the USA, is because we are constantly told by our government that we will never stand a chance on our own in a war so we need to suck up to America as a insurance policy which includes participating in their wars.

"If the USA needed to do nothing to retain this "friendship" until now, why should they do anything now? And if they do need to do something now to retain this "friendship", what would that be?"

Where did that come from?
I never said anything about America needing to retain the freindship, even though Australia is the one that has had to uphold the treaty.
Besides, the USA is yet to realise that the world is moving away from them and into the Asia/Oceania region. This is why Obama recently visited us, because he wants to ensure Australia is an allied nation for the future.
If Australia all of a sudden decides to dump them then Americas greatest ally in the region will be lost.
We are effectively Americas gateway into Asia, and since the world is moving here, America now has to do the sucking up.

Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
Other than Iraq and Afghanistan which wars of Aggression has America launched since WW II?

Bay of Pigs is my fav.

Where to start?

Think Commies.

Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
Other than Iraq and Afghanistan which wars of Aggression has America launched since WW II?

Guatemala, twice
Cuba
Dominican Republic
Grenada
Korea
Lebanon
Vietnam
Laos
Cambodia
Iran, twice
Libya, thrice
Panama
Iraq, twice
Somali
Yugoslavia
Bosnia
Kosovo
Afghanistan
Philippines
Honduras
Nicaragua

au.answers.yahoo.com...

You think the Soviets and the Chinese did not have their own Cold War covert actions overthrows and what not.

America have not been angels but neither was the other side in this deal , strangely though only America is ever held to account.

reply to post by theubermensch


And America was the initiator in every one of these conflicts?

reply to post by DarkStormCrow


Grenada
Laos
Cambodia
Dominican Republic
Haiti
Panama

Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
You think the Soviets and the Chinese did not have their own Cold War covert actions overthrows and what not.

America have not been angels but neither was the other side in this deal , strangely though only America is ever held to account.

Its funny how America just loves recreating events of great victories and shows them off in movies and tv shows. But when it comes to American invasions all of a sudden its quiet and attempted to be covered up.