'Father' and 'Son' Ousted from the Trinity in New Bible Translations

When I first saw the thread title, I was a little shocked. It would be like telling the story of Alice in Wonderland with no Alice, no White Rabbit....a little difficult to say the least.

From the OP link:

"First, Wycliffe and SIL have produced Stories of the Prophets, an Arabic Bible that uses an Arabic equivalent of "Lord" instead of "Father" and "Messiah" instead of "Son."
Second, Frontiers and SIL have produced Meaning of the Gospel of Christ , an Arabic translation which removes "Father" in reference to God and replaces it with "Allah," and removes or redefines "Son." For example, the verse which Christians use to justify going all over the world to make disciples, thus fulfilling the Great Commission (Matthew 28:19) reads, "Cleanse them by water in the name of Allah, his Messiahand his Holy Spirit" instead of "baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."

So accoridng to a Bible Gateway search using an NIV bible, the word “Messiah” is found 74 times, “Lord” 6,723 times. You say spud, I say potato.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by Inquisitive1

 

Sure.... Because appeasement has always work well in the past.

I find it offensive when radical Muslims call for the death of a non Muslim for expressing their views on Islam. Drawing a picture of Mohamed has caused them to storm embassies in countries where freedom of religion expression and press are present.

I find it offensive that in my country I can be forced to speak to a female while all I can see is the eye slit. To me its offensive because it relegates females to being one rung above property, and thats being generous. I accept that if its the females choice, but not when its forced.

Respect is a 2 way road, and that is something the extreme elements of ALL religions are going to have to accept.

I can agree to most of that. Specifically your last comment. Appeasement was sort of the name of the law in America, though. Everyone has rights.. Within limits (Some would argue an ever-shortening limit).

Muslims are radical doing this move against the Christians, especially in there own belief in a Christian America. Let me tell you this, all Muslims are going to be hanging on the cross if this gets any worse. These Muslims have no clue how this is going to backfire. When a Christian preaches love, its love but when you take away Jesus its going to be hell on earth for Muslims.

Originally posted by anthonygillespie2012
Muslims are radical doing this move against the Christians, especially in there own belief in a Christian America. Let me tell you this, all Muslims are going to be hanging on the cross if this gets any worse. These Muslims have no clue how this is going to backfire. When a Christian preaches love, its love but when you take away Jesus its going to be hell on earth for Muslims.

edit on 30-1-2012 by anthonygillespie2012 because: (no reason given)

Which would solve nothing, And would bring you a significant step closer to becoming like those you seem to hate.

Which leads me to amend your comment. When (you) preach love, It's (Conditional, and suspect to change at whim) but when you (allow people to express something different) it's going to be (mildly annoying) for (Anyone of a different viewpoint/religion).

reply to post by anthonygillespie2012


Research a little further, they aren't "taking away" Jesus. They are referring to him in a different noun word. Our bibles do this all the time.

The original text of the Wycliff translation from Matthew 28:19:

Therfor go ye, and teche alle folkis, baptisynge hem in the name of the Fadir, and of the Sone, and of the Hooli Goost;

The NIV version of the same verse:

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

And last but not least, The Worldwide English version:

So go and make disciples in all countries. Baptise them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.



See how the wording changes.

reply to post by Inquisitive1


i agree, im from england they jump up and down calling for sharia law, and wear those headdresses, and occasionaly comit honour killings, i mean without being offensive, because ive had a few friends who were muslim, they say the problim is by nature the muslim religion is essentially mixed like a soup, problem being the ingredients dont go well together, ie christian beliefs mixed with mein kampf, put your own slant on thins = islam

now remember the people are not the problem, everyone likes to believe something, the issuse is, that relgions have commited crimes in the names of gods, since day zero, since there beginings, they offer you the world, but you cant have it till you die, for this, you give money, your life, you give everything, the problem with islam is its where christianity was 300 or 200 years ago, its getting kind of, the rest of you are wrong were right, thats nazi germany all over again its just time, now you get a few guys together give them a leader who insights hatred and the like, and a old book that says one day islam will take over the world, what do we expect in the future, i sure as hell no were not all going to be sat down eating cookies

Originally posted by anthonygillespie2012
Muslims are radical doing this move against the Christians, especially in there own belief in a Christian America. Let me tell you this, all Muslims are going to be hanging on the cross if this gets any worse. These Muslims have no clue how this is going to backfire. When a Christian preaches love, its love but when you take away Jesus its going to be hell on earth for Muslims.

edit on 30-1-2012 by anthonygillespie2012 because: (no reason given)

Muslims hanging on the cross?

I sent this to a freind of mine in kuwait. A muslim. He finds removing jesus to be about as offensive as a picture of a crusader #ting on a quran.

What many of you do not realize is that Jesus is a muslim prophet and that like in the christan prophecies jesus will return to save the world.

However he was not looked at as the son of god. A prophet. thats all.

I figured I might add this now

wait 50 years. If a world war does happen the Khazar empire will erase history and Jesus will be replaced by a smurf hanging of a strip club pole.

Originally posted by bronxbull
wait 50 years. If a world war does happen the Khazar empire will erase history and Jesus will be replaced by a smurf hanging of a strip club pole.

Thats funny. but also very sad.....that it might be true

Originally posted by daaskapital
Ah come one, it's not like the Bible has been edited before

Look, the Bible has been edited since the 300's AD by Constantine the Great, theough the councils he held, specifically the first one at Nicaea.

No scripture was modified, translated or canonized during the Council of Nicea.

Your comment is not historically accurate.

This is mixing apples and oranges. When the Bible states "no one gets to the Father except through the Son, Christians understand that one must accept the Son, Christ Jesus, as their Savior in order to know and spend
eternity with God the Father.

Our Salvation is bound by faith NOT works.

Islam teaches there was a guy named Jesus, but He is not the Messiah, he is just a well known
prophet. There is no Father in Islam nor are there loving children.
Islam is based on works not faith.


To say changing the bible is demonstrating unconditional love is tantamount to saying All roads lead to heaven. This is not the truth Christ taught.

Some things should never be compromised.

Pax

Originally posted by chr0naut

Originally posted by daaskapital
Ah come one, it's not like the Bible has been edited before

Look, the Bible has been edited since the 300's AD by Constantine the Great, theough the councils he held, specifically the first one at Nicaea.

No scripture was modified, translated or canonized during the Council of Nicea.

Your comment is not historically accurate.

I'm sorry but I highly doubt that. Faith was the means to control people for how many thousands of years.

An individual in a high seat of power would edit the good book just to suit their own needs.

The message is still good though not entirely there.

Originally posted by Inquisitive1

Originally posted by anthonygillespie2012
Muslims are radical doing this move against the Christians, especially in there own belief in a Christian America. Let me tell you this, all Muslims are going to be hanging on the cross if this gets any worse. These Muslims have no clue how this is going to backfire. When a Christian preaches love, its love but when you take away Jesus its going to be hell on earth for Muslims.

edit on 30-1-2012 by anthonygillespie2012 because: (no reason given)

Which would solve nothing, And would bring you a significant step closer to becoming like those you seem to hate.

Which leads me to amend your comment. When (you) preach love, It's (Conditional, and suspect to change at whim) but when you (allow people to express something different) it's going to be (mildly annoying) for (Anyone of a different viewpoint/religion).

I'm sure if a Christian were to translate or edit the Quran in a Muslim country to suit Christian offenses the Muslims would be very happy? No.

Why does a Muslim feel the need to edit the New Testament because they are offended?

I respect all religions and no I'm not a christian,

Originally posted by anthonygillespie2012

I'm sure if a Christian were to translate or edit the Quran in a Muslim country to suit Christian offenses the Muslims would be very happy? No.

Why does a Muslim feel the need to edit the New Testament because they are offended?

I respect all religions and no I'm not a christian,

The difference is that in America, you are free to change religious texts like the bible all you wish, Or make your own. You share the same right if you, too, are an American. Regardless of whether or not you choose to exercise it (or have the funds to do so).

With that in mind, it was not a Muslim who decided to do this, But three christian organizations...

A controversy is brewing over three reputable Christian organizations, which are based in North America, whose efforts have ousted the words "Father" and "Son" from new Bibles. Wycliffe Bible Translators, Summer Institute of Linguistics (SIL) and Frontiers are under fire for "producing Bibles that remove "Father," "Son" and "Son of God" because these terms are offensive to Muslims."

Besides which, It sounds like they are just using a different translation, and not just omitting words..

The main issues of this controversy surround new Arabic and Turkish translations. Here are three examples native speakers give: First, Wycliffe and SIL have produced Stories of the Prophets, an Arabic Bible that uses an Arabic equivalent of "Lord" instead of "Father" and "Messiah" instead of "Son." Second, Frontiers and SIL have produced Meaning of the Gospel of Christ , an Arabic translation which removes "Father" in reference to God and replaces it with "Allah," and removes or redefines "Son." For example, the verse which Christians use to justify going all over the world to make disciples, thus fulfilling the Great Commission (Matthew 28:19) reads, "Cleanse them by water in the name of Allah, his Messiahand his Holy Spirit" instead of "baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." Rev. Bassam Madany, an Arab American who runs Middle East Resources, terms these organization's efforts as "a western imperialistic attempt that's inspired by cultural anthropology, and not by biblical theology."

I'll rest my case..

The increasingly radical divergence from the original faith is bringing more people to Orthodoxy. I belong to the Greek Orthodox church. Every week I meet more Protestants who have become disillusioned with their churches due to insanity like this article.

The church is under attack by satanists in the Illuminati. Their front organizations want to destroy the abrahamic faiths Christians and Muslims in particular by pitting them against each other.

Once people wake up to what's happening and realize they are behind promoting all the wars in the middle east, we shall come to our senses and recognize the fatalistic hatred as dissonant to the core teachings of all faiths. Love and tolerance are key to survival.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


My only qualm is your attempt to call Paul two faced. What Paul is saying is he met people where they were at. Paul did not say to the Jews he said He hated all non Jews, and to the non Jews he said he hated all Jews. That would be being two faced, not at all what Paul was, or meant.

__________________________


PROOF that man made religion is written and
re-written for use to control the masses.

Besides, the mormons changed the New T to suit their version,
the jehova's witness changed the New T to suit their version,
I hear that the gay's have their own version of New T too.
The New T has so many versions, so why be surprised ?
fyi
Muslims do NOT read New religious anything, especially
re-written stuff.
This only gives more fodder against man made beliefs.
This is so hilarious , NEW T books are
not part of the hebrew bible anyways, end of story. Lol

__________________________

reply to post by anthonygillespie2012

Muslims are radical doing this move against the Christians, especially in there own belief in a Christian America. Let me tell you this, all Muslims are going to be hanging on the cross if this gets any worse. These Muslims have no clue how this is going to backfire.

Did you even read the OP? The muslims are not making this move... they did not even ask for this change.
The christian publishers are re-wording it to make the bible more appealing to the arab speaking population. Its only a cunning attempt to draw converts.

Please try and understand, these changes are not fair to Muslims. When we remove Father and Son
from the Trinity, we are denying all Muslims to know and understand God as He truly is.

We are offering false doctrine and misleading Muslims. This is a horrible and unacceptable mistake of the Christian church. In fact it is heresy.

Thanks,
Pax

Originally posted by daaskapital
Ah come one, it's not like the Bible has been edited before

Look, the Bible has been edited since the 300's AD by Constantine the Great, theough the councils he held, specifically the first one at Nicaea.

The first change made in the bible came around 55 AD when Paul decided that Jesus' Birth was a virgin one.