This is way bigger than just this story. Sad people are not keying on that on ATS. This is the most important topic in some time.

All the churches are joining forces as we type. You see if they get away with forcing a Church to go against its own beliefs and buy something they are forced to buy in their privately held institutions, they can do almost anything to anyone. This literally throws the 1st Amendment out the window and makes anyone involve impeachable for knowingly breaking the law and violating their oath.

We all know there are now hate groups just as bad as the "KKK" out to get people of Faith even though they only represent a tiny, tiny minority of citizens. Not only are they practicing hate openly, they want dictatorial control over the majority of us. This is real.

I'm shocked this story is not on top at ATS and have to wonder if ATS is really about conspiracies anymore?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

First only Congress can pass a law. Whenever a President side steps them, they are knowingly violating their oath and saying the Constitution and the Law means nothing to them. The topic does not matter. Who the law applies to does not matter.

Second this directly prohibits the "the free exercise" of religion. People came from all over the world to here and died for this Right. It does not get any worse than this.

Regardless of the trolls who attend these threads just to tell us they hate people of Faith and are biggots, this has little to do with the Catholic Church. It has to do with what happens if Obama gets away with this. At least the hate groups can rest assured that Obama is not a Christian and he also wants to defy the vast majority of citizens here and turn the Presidency into a pseudo dictatorial seat.

The only way this could be done legally is if he has accomplished a silent Coup or by having a Constitutional Convention and rewriting the Constitution to impose the wishes of a hate group on the entire population and that will never happen.

In the 60's we had the "KKK" all southern Democrats and now we have the Atheist Progressives filling the same role as a hate group against nearly the entire population of the US. The difference, these guys are in charge right now.

Anyone who is not moving this topic to the top can't be really all that interested in conspiracies in my opinion.

Every religious figure realizes exactly what this means. If the government can overreach into the area of forcing Catholics to violate one of their core theological teachings; what else will the government do? Obama signs the NDAA which detains Americans without trial, signs legislation which forces Americans to purchase health insurance, and now has a law forcing the Catholic Church to cover contraception. I am glad they have rebelled by telling the Courts, ‘if you fine us, we will not pay. If you force us, we will not obey.”

Militant Secularists rejoice whenever there is an attack on religion, it is like ecstasy to them. Yet when they even hear a politician speaking of religion in government, well it is time to cite the first amendment. Sure, violate the first amendment to attack the Church but don’t you dare violate the first amendment by putting mangers on city land. The first amendment guarantees a separation of church and state; one shall never force anything upon the other. That is the definition of such a separation.

What Obama has done is to say unto the clergy, “you will submit to the civil morality without question.” I do not hear the Church demanding government submit to Catholic morality, they may ask for government to do so and vote along said lines, but cannot force them to do so. The same is supposed to be true in regards to the government involvement in the religious institutions.

I suspect if Obama refuses to back down there, neither will the Church. This will begin a new era in American culture and politics, the clash between Church and State. It will be whether the First Amendment means what it says or means nothing at all. That your freedom is determined by who is in office, not the natural law which was written down as civil law in the US Bill of Rights. Remember the statement by Pastor Martin Niemoller:

“First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak out because I was Protestant.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.”

Do not make the mistake of allowing your hatred towards religion blur your view of reality. If they can do this to the Church, imagine what they believe can be done to you.

I still can't flag in this thread and still can flag in all others. If a Mod drops by.

It is within one's free will to hate or to love someone. But to make use of the church and its congregations to fulfill a minority's hate agenda is the worse FILTH of all time.

For centuries, the uneducated masses had been used and abused by these minority, and in more recent times, america's bible belt's electorate had always been misled and misused to win votes for horrendous greed filled political conniving dirtbags that had been filling up Congress right up till day.

ENOUGH is ENOUGH!

DO NOT MAKE USE OF RELIGION to fulfil personal/minority agendas.

If one hates the incumbent president, then present points why he should not be voted, logically and HONESTLY, NOT by lies and half truths, and lumping EVERY issue into one to mislead others! This thread is about the CATHOLIC CHURCH'S REACTION.

1. Had the current president took away the constitutional rights of religion? No. Such laws were not passed.

2. Did the proposed laws covered the church itself, or does it cover only religious institutions such as colleges and hospitals that had made used of SECULAR PUBLIC FUNDS, to comply with the secular laws of the land?

3. Had any church, temple, mosque, etc, sermons been censored or withheld? None. Even the horrendous Westboro sectarian group freely spout their hate filled ideologies today.

The ONLY ones whom had been attacking the sacred Constitution for ALL FREE americans had been the Catholic denomination with their letter dated 29th January as posted by OP denoucing the proposed laws and secularism, as well as insidiously sowing hate for other groups.

'Pay unto Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and pay unto that which belongs to the Kingdom of Heaven.' goes a famous saying.

America is a SECULAR nation, not a Catholic Vatican protectorate. ENOUGH of misusing religion and faithful for personal vendattas or political mileage! Mankind had long suffered enough!

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
When religion moves into secular institutions such as colleges and hospitals, those that are public, paid by taxpayers funds, wholly or partiarly, etc, they must abide by secular laws of the land, or only discriminations, dissatisfactions and social uphevals will arise to the detriment of society.

CATHOLIC hospitals are just that ... CATHOLIC. Just because the CATHOLIC hospital isn't providing it's outreach in a church building, doesn't make it any less of a CATHOLIC religious outreach. The whole purpose of a CATHOLIC hospital is to provide outreach in a CATHOLIC manner and in a CATHOLIC atmosphere.

May the Catholic religious faithful restrain the Catholic extremists.

It isn't Catholic 'extremism' for the CATHOLIC church, and it's CATHOLIC outreach programs, to follow CATHOLIC teaching. It's expected. Onanism is a teaching of the Catholic church ... it's not Catholic extremism ... it's just plain ol' Catholicism.

While I disagree with Onanism, the Catholic church and it's outreach programs have a Constitutional right to act in a manner consistant with their religion. If people do not like the fact that they can't get their birth control paid for by their CATHOLIC employer .. then they can go work elsewhere.

Side note - recently a bunch of muslim students were accepted at Catholic University in DC. Once they were at the school, they sued the school to get rid of the crosses and stained glass that had pictures of Jesus. They were 'offended'. This strike by the Obama administration against the Catholic church and it's outreach programs (hospitals, schools, etc) is in the same league as those students. Absolute idiocy.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
But when they ACCEPT SECULAR PUBLIC TAXPAYERS FUNDING for their activities, ...

Then cut the public funding and leave the Catholic Church to fund the hospitals all by themselves.

Side note - Catholic Hospitals are traditionally in the very poor neighborhoods. The work they do and the care they provide are incredible. It's incredibly myopic of people to want to withdraw government assistance to the Church outreach program simply because the church will not go against it's beliefs and fund birth control for it's employees. (Employees who could easily go work elsewhere if they wished.) By pushing Catholic hospitals to close their doors, the people who supposedly are championing 'rights' of workers are in fact just hurting the poor.

Catholics, or ANY OTHER religion CANNOT make use of public space ...

A Catholic hospital isn't 'public space' ... it's an extension of the Catholic church and under the Catholic church umbrella.

"Regardless of the trolls who attend these threads just to tell us they hate people of Faith and are biggots, this has little to do with the Catholic Church. It has to do with what happens if Obama gets away with this."


It is the well-worn slippery slope. I am only surprised that he is doing this before the election. I really worry about what will happen after he is (if he is) re-elected. I am from Canada, but things trickle down quite fast I find.