Your Views On 'Smacking' children.

The riots were certainly caused by more serious social problems than kids not getting the odd clip when they act up, but there is definately a discipline problem amongst children - one that only parents can solve, not the state.

Again it comes down to parents taking responsibility for their own children. You open your legs, you are 100% responsible for the outcome.

Most times you need not actually smack a child - if you've done your job right, they will know right from wrong, and if they do something wrong that you will punish them. Too many children today are just conditioned by the media that youth is right, and where it's at - there is a cockiness about a lot of children today that is not mere confidence, it's a total lack of empathy for other people.

If parents are not discipling their children, the kids will not respect them at all - and since our parents are our rolemodels for our relationships with all adults, they just simply won't respect any other adult either.

Don't expect MPs to understand this - their kids don't go to the same crappy comprehensives as the rest of us did. What they see is the result of a bad upbringing, not the true causes.

My mother loved me and my sister more than anything and she spanked us. I think I definitely benefited from it. I see too many adults who expect everyone else in the world to placate them as their parents did. I think everyone should expect to be smacked for being out of line with someone. Take the average workplace for example, how many a-holes get to run their mouth, be condescending and rude and even just mean without any recourse? Emotional pain is equal or worse than physical pain in my opinion so why is that ok? Now I don't think violence solves everything but we are too far out of balance where our society rewards running your mouth and punishes a physical retaliation for it. Some people don't understand boundaries unless you define them clearly. And some people refuse to accept a verbal definition and need something a little more convincing.

If you are fair and just as a parent your child will understand. Its when you start hitting them and punishing them without cause where the issues begin. You want to build respect, not resentment. I knew I was out of line when I was spanked because I knew my mom wouldn't go to that extreme unless justified. I knew it really did hurt her as much as it hurt me even though that is such a cliche saying.

I don't know the answer 100% and everyone is different but I am troubled by entire generations being raised essentially by the government/media etc... Parents need more control one way or another. People on ATS argue over politics, economics etc... but how vital is it to our future that children are being raised in a positive way? I think its the most important if not one of the most important issues facing humanity today.

This is an age related issue I believe. My dad was rough with me at an early age. To rough to early. I ended up knocking him flat out as soon as I hit 14 when he got in my face. Dont get me wrong, he loved me very much, but being the vietnam veteran he was he had very little patience.

When a boy is entering a transition to becoming a man there seems to be more of a will to challenge the authority of your parents or authority figures in general, the people that are actually trying to help you. At this point, if my son wishes to challenge me in some physical way, that's when I will use force to knock him down a peg. I see no reasoning to use violence on a small child. I don't believe they will understand it, and I don't believe it is fair.

That being said. I will have no problem restraining my children. If I tell him to go to his room or stand in the corner or do something and they don't I will force them to do so. They are to young at this point (4,2), but that might mean their arm gets grabbed and I hold them for a second to not be able to run away or anything like that.

Respect does need to be learned by the child, but it needs to be shown by the adult first.

reply to post by open_eyeballs


Also, age of the parent. I didn't have my first one until I was 32. My Dad had me when he was 20. There is no way I would have had the patience to raise a child at age 20. I would have been overly aggressive, and I would have had no patience, and I would have made A LOT of mistakes. My Dad was kind of like that, but now I greatly appreciate how hard it was for him, and what a hell of a job he did at the time.

I'm about to be 38, when my Dad was 38, I was sneaking out, running around town, wrecking my cars, dragging random girls home, and trying to graduate high school and starting my own business all at once. I don't know how he handled it. I'm 38, and there is no way I could handle the 17 year old me!

Really, every kid that survives to adulthood is a miracle!

reply to post by mblahnikluver


I can agree with this a fair bit. My father apparently was never given a smack when he was a child. I believe my mother got the odd one, I'm 19 now and I remember getting a smack about 3 times in my childhood. I made sure to keep behaved. My dad only had to raise his voice and I was scared in to behaving!

For me, getting the rare smack on my leg or made to sit outside the room alone made me behave. I don't know how majority of kids now are disciplined but obviously not much if they don't have respect for other people around them.

Originally posted by ALOSTSOUL
MP's have said in the media this week that the UK riots where caused by the lack of physical discipline, not the lack of jobs, education and a decent family lifestyle.

The Tottenham MP David Lammy claimed that Labour's 2004 decision to tighten up the smacking law was partly to blame for last summer's riots, which erupted in his north London constituency.

m.guardian.co.uk...

For you yanks out there, it is against the law in Great Britain to smack (spank) your child, although I have never heard of someone being convicted of it.

Personally I am undecided somtimes I think children do need a smack every now and then, mainly for there own sake. Lets say my daughter puts her finger in the plug socket do I give her a little slap (on the hand) and say "no, don't touch or it will hurt worse than that." luckly i haven't had to yet, she is still to young to crawl.

I understand that we live in different times (hell, I got a leather belt if I was naughty) but a complete lack of physical discipline can't be good for a Childs development can it?

I don't know, it's a very touchy issue, what are your views.

ALS

edit on 29-1-2012 by ALOSTSOUL because: (no reason given)

The problem with hitting is that nobody does it the same. You may give a single swat on the rear with your hand for the most extreme discipline while someone else hits with a belt several times for minor discipline measures.

The old adage, "Spare the rod, spoil the child" is true to an extent, but there are better ways of disciplining your child. For instance, sticking one's finger in a wall plug should be enough punishment. Does a child deserve a 'smack' as well.

One should not mistake not 'smacking' a child for not 'disciplining' a child. You don't have to hit to discipline. I don't know much about the riots you're experiencing, but I venture to say a lot of that is environment and what values are being taught in the home.

Violence begets violence.

There is a fine line between discipline and abuse, I was spanked on many occasioins growing up and not once did I not deserve it. I do not consider myself abused because of it, I do not resent my parents for doing it. Everyone has their own methods of handling their children some methods work on some kids while other methods work on others. I think it is up to each parent to discipline how they see fit, I have two children for one all it takes is sitting down talking to her and letting her know that her behavior has dissapointed me and she is good. My son on the other hand is as stubborn as a mule and it does take the occasional spanking to bring his behavior back in line. I do not leave marks and I do not give him more than 4 or 5 swats, I also do not do it angry, this is the most important. Never punish a child while angry, always have a clear head.
Taking away a parents right to discipline is the fall of our children and society, they do not learn the lesson that there are harsh consequences with their actions sometimes.

Originally posted by ALOSTSOUL
MP's have said in the media this week that the UK riots where caused by the lack of physical discipline, not the lack of jobs, education and a decent family lifestyle.

The Tottenham MP David Lammy claimed that Labour's 2004 decision to tighten up the smacking law was partly to blame for last summer's riots, which erupted in his north London constituency.

m.guardian.co.uk...

For you yanks out there, it is against the law in Great Britain to smack (spank) your child, although I have never heard of someone being convicted of it.

Personally I am undecided somtimes I think children do need a smack every now and then, mainly for there own sake. Lets say my daughter puts her finger in the plug socket do I give her a little slap (on the hand) and say "no, don't touch or it will hurt worse than that." luckly i haven't had to yet, she is still to young to crawl.

I understand that we live in different times (hell, I got a leather belt if I was naughty) but a complete lack of physical discipline can't be good for a Childs development can it?

I don't know, it's a very touchy issue, what are your views.

ALS

Considering the state can use guns, tasers, billy-clubs, painful holds, chemicals to stop or apprehend you.
Considering that the state holds the right to put you in a hell hole of a prison where you will beaten, rapped and abused.
Considering the state holds the right to execute, assassinate, wage war on kids using kids, I say the state has no right to get involved with parents who use spanking as a form of discipline. Unless we all agree the state actually owns our kids, and by that extension, owns us.

Spare the rod, spoil the child.

I think it's funny how everyone subscribes to spanking as THEE end all to disciplinary problems. Maybe it's different where you all live, but let me tell you about where I come from. Where I live, EVERY SINGLE KID gets spanked, smacked, whipped or whatever you people are calling it these days.


It's the social norm. I got it, my brother got it, my cousin's aunts uncles EVERYONE. For some kids, it works amazing. All they need is a look and they are scared straight. They wouldn't dare cross their parents. Oh, and it's not because they are lovey dovey and don't want to disappoint their parents. No, it's because they are scared crapless of them. I am sure most of you are applauding like cheerleaders at a winning basketball game, but lets get to the other side of the coin shall we?

Now, for other kids, all they have learned from it is how to lie better, or how not to get caught. They can lie, cheat, steal and con their way out of a beat down, because they already know how to cover their tracks. All they learned from their spankings were that if you get caught, you get hit. So, don't get caught. Then, there are the kids that really don't care. They will take their five minutes of pain rather than having their things taken away for 5 days.

It kills me that everyone thinks automatically spanking is the solution to disciplinary problems. If that were true, perhaps our jails wouldn't be so full. Just a thought. Will I spank my kids? I'm not sure, I don't have any. I can tell you one thing though, this conversation really has me thinking twice about it. I adore children. I don't adore the idea of having to smack mine around to get it to listen to me though.

reply to post by ALOSTSOUL


I feel that children need to experience discipline in their early days of their youth in order to set within them that boundaries exist related to the actions of the children. And if these boundaries / teachings are not taught properly the children may grow to become adults that may not understand that boundaries exist at all, even if as adults they understand what boundaries mean by definition. I don't think its needed to spank the children as it used to be the way for me and others growing up (you did wrong expect to be spanked). But I do recognize that when I was to be spanked it was due to me getting out of line and once I fully understood this I began to follow the rules set for me and tried to stay within them. So yes the hands on did enforce the overall message FASTER to get it together, but as 1 grew older the AIR spankings kicked in and hmm sometimes those were more powerful then the hands on spankings. This was as I was growing, the world is much more different now. As a parent you have to try and reach their minds more to accomplish the guiding results which yes takes more time and energy then a slap on the wrist for misbehaving but its the responsibility of the parent to show patience and demonstrate patience to their offspring. So yes it may be hard to lecture them but a stand in the corner for doing wrong or a limited playstation/xbox/nintendo-cellphone - computer - time CHORES , will get them in check faster then thought so there is always a way, AFTER ALL THEY ARE YOU OR US GENETICALLY SO THE ANSWERS ARE WITHIN THE PARENTS search for them.


NAMASTE*******
LOVE LIGHT ETERNIA

I just don't understand any justification for hitting a child. I am in my 60's and we were "spanked" with razor straps, belts and such. It really was common. Spare the rod spoil the child mentality. I beliieve we Boomers were a violent generation. Be an example of how to solve problems with the brain instead of the hand.

Spare the rod, spoil the child.

When I came into my current relationship my (now wife) had a 3 y/o, he's almost 5 now.

That kid was one of the most spoiled children I have ever seen. He would do whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted. The factors contributing to this were that he stayed with his mom for a week and then with dad for a week. Dad is an immature punk that sees having a kid is more of a novelty than a responsibility. And the parents of the mom (my wife) are very well off, so they gave into his every whim and got him every toy that he so much as looked at. So after I took a step back and saw the situation for what it was, I saw a small child that had zero structure. He had moms rules, nanny's rules, dads rules (if any) and gam gams rules. He didnt know which way was up. And from the parents point of view they wanted to make sure that their week with the boy was the best weekever, to in a way have the child like them more than the other parent. The problem with this is that the happiness of the child came at the expense of disipline, manners and general respect.

Now my family and I have moved to a different city, daddy is out of the picture (court decision) and he is no longer lavished with the endless gifts of wealthy grandparents. My rules are now the rules of the land and slowly but surly he is becoming acustom to doing what we tell him to do, or he gets disiplined. Dont listen the first time we tell him to do somthing he gets a butt pop. Dont want to eat his dinner, fine you go to bed without dinner or comes to his senses that what is made for dinner is what is for dinner. My father who is not easliy impressed has even noticed a difference. The child now says sorry if he did somthing wrong (before you couldnt even force him to apologise) he says please and thank you. Is starting to say mam and sir. These are huge for this little hellyun that just alittle less than a year ago would have been unheard of.

As a child I was deathly affraid of my dad, because I KNEW if I screwed up or did somthing I knew I wasnt supposed to, I would get my A$$ whopped!! I did well in school because bad grades got a butt whoopin, I didnt get into trouble because that would get a butt whoopin, I didnt talk back because that was a butt whoppin too. My father wasnt afraid to bring out the belt and I knew that, so that just meant to me that I was always making sure I did the right thing. And now looking back on it, I am VERY grateful for the way that he raised me.

As @getreadyalready stated, making empty threats is one of the BIGGEST mistakes a parent can make. It shows the child that what you say doesnt matter. I've have not yet made an empty threat or promise. Being constant with a small child I think is extremly important. for instance we tell our boy to NEVER throw anything off of the upstairs banaster, and a few times my wife has thrown some things down to me (phone charger, lighter ect.) and if she does so I give her a spanking too. because the house rules are not only for the child. The rules apply to EVERYONE.

Now one thing I will NEVER do is hit a child in their face. If the child is to recieve physical disipline, he gets it on the butt.

We raised two very successful children.

We found that spanking kids, in general terms, is not as effective in establishing desired behaviors as is positive reinforcement.

Positive reinforcement is praise for doing the "right" things.

We were very positive with their school work and accomplishments outside the classroom. We attended their games, recitals, school functions etc. We were very specific in our praise.

We didn't offer praise when it was clear that the kids hadn't given their best.

It can be very frustrating as a parent to get kids to follow the right path but it is rewarding when it works.

reply to post by Talltexxxan


I think the broken family life is a huge factor! You really nailed it. When parents are split up, several things happen. Both sets of parents want to make every visit valuable and enjoyable and they don't want to ruin them with discipline. Also, the kids quickly learn they can play the parents off one another to get their way. Also, there are often several sets of rules, so there is inconsistency and there is a built in excuse for the child.

We have to figure out a way to fix the family structure in this nation, that is the source of so many of our social ills. It impacts economies, education, justice and corrections, and even courts and torts. The broken family has created a broken nation.

reply to post by ALOSTSOUL


A spanking with guidance is a lesson that teaches real world consequences. As someone who has received a number of spankings, it never hurt more than half an hour. My siblings and I were usually spanked when we fought with each other. My mom tried her best to help us understand that our actions had consequences that affect other people and that we should care about and respect others.

On the other hand, my father hardly ever spanked us because he was scared his own physical strength would cause bodily harm. He was abused as a child and told my mother that he would curse to blow off steam so he wouldn't physically harm us. His violent rants where he looked like a maniace about to snap were way more damaging than any spanking my mother could have ever given us, it was verbal and emotional abuse.

reply to post by ALOSTSOUL


I believe its wrong not to be able to correct your own child as you see fit, so long as its not overly abusive in nature. I was raised old fashioned if I got into something I wasn't supposed to get into I would either get belt, shoe or hairbrush. A friend of mine was made to kneel on peas for awhile Lithuanian style punishment. No markings were left, and I turned out o.k.
These children are in for world of hurt when they get older. No red ink on their school papers, everybody wins in stick ball no points against you given.
In the real world when we do something wrong we're punished for it sometimes alot harsher than what we would've been as children. These children are being set up to be losers, and expect real life to treat them the way school treated them. I hate to see what kind of leaders they will become, as they get older they show no courtesy or respect for other people as it is now. This is why they expect everything to go their way all the time now!

reply to post by getreadyalready


lol... that's not a bad point. And I think in general your probably correct. But its the exact opposite situation with myself and my pops, so I see things a bit differently. He didn't have me till he was 37. I did all those same things u mentioned, but because he was older as I got older there was really less that he could do. He couldn't control me. So when I really messed up he had no physical recourse.

I remember when I was 16 and arrested my first time, I thought he was going to BEAT my ass. I remember thinking "oh #, this is going to get ugly." Instead he did just the opposite and gave me the dissapointed speech. Honestly, in this instance it would probably have been better to take more control over my life. I guess it could have gone either way...I could have gotten worse, or I could have gotten better. Instead I continued on the same path and ruined a number of opportunities. But I believe we make ourselves. Theres really not much a parent can do other than lead the way.

Im 27 with two. So Ill be plenty young to handle my knuckleheads when they inevitably begin to be real knuckleheads, especially if they are anything like me. But I can't see any real positive outcomes from the way he handled me when I was say 5-14. Very physical and very short on patience. I try to be the opposite with mine. I will hopefully afford my kids more patience. As soon as they cross the line then I will do what is necessary, subtract a physical act. I liked what a poster said on the first page (was it you, i cant remember lol)... If I threaten something Im going to do it. No idle threats. That has some good wisdom in it. So Id like to employ that technique. But just without the threat of some physical act. I just don't think they learn from it. I didn't. Just pissed me off more. hahaha

spanking is sometimes necessary, but there's a world of difference in administering a spanking because of a child's wrongdoing, and whaling the daylight out of him due to your own frustration whether related to the child's act or not. it is infinitely preferable for a parent to punish their child's wrongdoing, then a child possibly continuing an action which is harmful to themselves and/or others. of course the child's age and offense must be taken into consideration. but, on the whole, i don't think it carries any more lasting harm the a verbal tongue-lashing. i have had experiences with children who have been greatly bothered by things their parents have said to them out of anger in connection to something they (the child) was doing wrong. everyone is different. we all have different thresholds of pain. consequently, words can hurt as just as deeply, if not more, than a spanking can. the trick is to know your child's threshold; something that's very difficult to do given that a single parent must work and often in a 2 parent family, both must work. a spank on the butt should not be punishable by any law, and parents should not be criminalized for it.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Talltexxxan

 

I think the broken family life is a huge factor! You really nailed it. When parents are split up, several things happen. Both sets of parents want to make every visit valuable and enjoyable and they don't want to ruin them with discipline. Also, the kids quickly learn they can play the parents off one another to get their way. Also, there are often several sets of rules, so there is inconsistency and there is a built in excuse for the child.

We have to figure out a way to fix the family structure in this nation, that is the source of so many of our social ills. It impacts economies, education, justice and corrections, and even courts and torts. The broken family has created a broken nation.

Exactly

And I feel in my situation is that I can help to raise this child, with the help of mommy, without the need to make every second better than the last. Now Im not all nails and whips. Everyday as soon as I get home from work, him and I will play what every he wants to do. We take him to parks and shows and sporting events. But when he gets that little additude of his, it quickly gets the kibash from me.

I feel sorry for the little guy and I love him to death, but he needs a parent right now. Not a friend.

Some of you guys are rediculous. If you guys haven't noticed...when spanking was allowed and not looked down upon there were so many more well behaved children than now when most kids are spoiled and babied and disrespectful. I don't think that's a coincidence !!