I Was Arrested At Occupy Oakland Yesterday, page 13

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reply posted on 31-1-2012 @ 03:02 PM by dadgad

Originally posted by PotKettle

Originally posted by dadgad
There is a revolution growing in the US. You can see it. The people are extremely upset and fed up and the treatment they are getting is creating more blow-back as we speak.

I love Occupy. Everyday more and more. I love the anarchy symbols they use. The fight they are putting up, giving the finger to the system. That is how it should be, that is what your founding fathers would have wanted to see. For once I feel real pride for America.

You on the other hand, with your whiny remarks about financial burdens (really!?) and the mobs are just plain naive in my opinion. The people of America have tried, peacefully and gently and got kicked in the nuts for it. How much more crap need they take. I mean, stand with your people I'd say. Because the system has already abandoned you.

These people there, these protesters. Look at them. All young, our age (i assume). Students most of them, graduates and other regular citizens. They are in essence 'the people''. Are you going to tell me they have no legitimacy? That they should go home? That they are a bunch no-goodies? Is that how you choose to view upon the essential people, with that kind of disdain? Then I ask you, are you part of the rich ruling elite? I assume that are not. I assume that you are as much a victim of the situation as they are.

So...

Where are you going to stand is the question. Will you give in to the fear and defend these crumbing remains of your system? Or will you let your lion out and defend what you damned well know what is yours..
edit on 31-1-2012 by dadgad because: (no reason given)

It's nice to see at least some of the of OWS contingent admit that they are anarchists at heart. It's certainly noble of you to speak on behalf of 'the people,' if when you say 'the people' you are referring to narcissistic puerile juveniles and their aging-hippie coddlers looking to relive their glory years of the sixties and seventies. Unfortunately, you are but a small minority of the American people, most of which are expressing annoyance towards your 'peaceful' Marxist tactics. Certainly, in any society there will be a small percentage of disgruntled populace. OWS typifies this subclass of malcontents, the losers if you will.

It is rather telling that you say that you feel proud of America due in part to the anarchy symbols you see being used by the OWS movement. You then go on to project your anarchist beliefs on to the founding fathers even proudly proclaiming that that is "what your founding fathers would have wanted to see." I doubt that you have studied enough history as to be able to guess what the founding fathers had in mind when they created the Constitution. I'll give you hint though, personal freedom and liberty, both of which you OWSers are infringing on with your little shanty towns of filth and feces.

I have just one little request. If you OWSers are going to continue to be unproductive members of society could you at least pick up after yourselves and stop blocking traffic? Doesn't holding hands and singing Kumbaya get boring after a while? Maybe look into X-Box? All the cool kids are doing it. I swear.

edit on 31-1-2012 by PotKettle because: (no reason given)

First of all. I am not American. I am Dutch. But studying American politics and culture is a great hobby of mine.

When I say that this anarchist behavior is what your founding fathers would wanted to see you should understand the context I am trying to speak in. At first, I think we could both agree that your founding fathers would be disgusted to see the state the US is in now.
They actually were people who embraced the notion of civil disobedience. And this is exactly what needs to happen in my opinion. Massive civil disobedience. The people standing up and just saying enough is enough.

And you should look at the Occupy movement in chronological order to understand their current behavior. This did not come out of nowhere. It began very peaceful without any violence. It has been the system that decided to kick them in the nuts basically. Look at the treatment they received. Tear gas, rubber bullets, beatings, flashbangs, tasers and mass arrests. What kind of response do you expect to see? So they are now taking it to the next level. They come prepared, they take shields to protect themselves against the gas canisters. I applaud that. I deeply deeply respect this type of civil disobedience. It is one of the things that makes the Western world unique.

The Greek people, also heroes in my opinion began taking it to the next level to after a while. It's what happens when the state decides to treat you as dirt.

For the rest, it's true I love anarchist idea's. What is wrong with that? It's a beautiful ideology.

And to be honest I respect these people so much more then the average ATS'er that comes here to complain about the New World Order,9/11, vaccination plans, The Illuminati and all that, yet view these activists with such an arrogant disdain.
These people are not hiding behind their laptops and computers, they actually go out in the field and meet the enemy. They are getting the heat.

Noam Chomsky made a very sharp and valid observation. Namely that the 9/11 Truthers who were protesting and calling for new investigations at the same time never really uttered a word about the Iraqi invasion. It shows something.

edit on 31-1-2012 by dadgad because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 31-1-2012 @ 04:00 PM by DrNotforhire

I've been doing some thinking on this subject a bit... I have a few questions for the OP...

You seem to be the respectful protestor, you got arrested...
1. did you feel you were treated as a hostile?
2. did the police treat you with some sort of dignity?
3. you are obviously out of jail (either that or we have a SERIOUS problem with our correction institution u know having the internet).
4. Were you gassed, maced,tazed, or shot.... or beat?

reply posted on 31-1-2012 @ 04:04 PM by Asktheanimals

I saw you in the RT video - leaning against the car on the far side of the street. Lol@ Mr. Casual eating his apple!
Thank you for being there, every body counts.

So how do you feel after being unlawfully detained and arrested?
The shame of it is how the people don't realize the power they have - overwhelming numbers can move the police any time if they simply acted in concert.

Anyhow, shame on the MSM for their disingenuous portrayal of the OWS movement as communists/dirty hippies/freeloaders, etc

They're just mostly young people who see the massive corruption in government and want a chance for a decent future. That's it, nothing more.

Thank God SOMEBODY CARES ENOUGH to put THEIR OWN BODIES ON THE LINE.

And George Soros hates OWS as much as any of the elites.

Thanks Mems, for me and for my kids and grand kids.
Maybe they will have freedom in their future.

reply posted on 31-1-2012 @ 04:15 PM by revolutionphase1

There's 2 types of violence. The one where humans break windows, protest, throw rocks etc. Just what the elites want. Then there's the organized violence, where leaders form groups and direct their energy to a purpose. Carrying out extreme acts backed by a revolutionary message. They dont want that type of violence.

reply posted on 31-1-2012 @ 04:46 PM by PotKettle

Originally posted by DystopiaphiliacHowever to make a factual conclusion about the goals of OWS you would have to know the personal story and reasons for EACH and EVERY SINGLE person there. So until you do that everybody needs to stop calling them all jobless hippies and what-not, making all these blatant generalizations.

Let me get this straight. You want me to stop making a generalization, which you even concede is correct, because I don't know the specific motivation behind every single member of the population? Generalizations are made because they are true for the most of the population. Yes, there may be members of this population who do not possess the same characteristics of the general population we are referring to and these members are called exceptions. The presence of exceptions does not diminish the validity of the original generalization. No offense, but your logic and reasoning skills exemplify those of a failed philosophy student. Maybe you should ask for your money back.

reply posted on 31-1-2012 @ 05:03 PM by xX aFTeRm4Th Xx

Haha dirty hippy...

reply posted on 31-1-2012 @ 05:12 PM by PotKettle

reply to post by dadgad

First off let me applaud you on your English skills which are probably better than those of most of the US populace. I am in my early thirties and you appear to be in your early twenties, so I concede that we may look at things from different perspectives. I just do not think that you have thoroughly thought through your reverence of anarchy.

Anarchy is the absence of government or simply put, lawlessness, which distilled down to it's most basic form can be described as an environment where the individual is left to fend for himself. This might be good if you are a survivalist but unfortunately, most of the Western population, I'll include myself in here, does not know how to hunt, how to grow food, and how to build a shelter, etc. Hence, we decide to give up a little bit of our liberty and freedom to a government which will help us with the things we would not be able to do individually; One which for the most part promotes and protects a free market system. Yes, the US government is not perfect but I would certainly prefer what we have now over a system of anarchy. So I hope you will forgive me if I seem a bit contemptuous of the OWSers, most whom would not be able to survive for a week without this government they so favor disbanding.

edit on 31-1-2012 by PotKettle because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 31-1-2012 @ 06:11 PM by petrus4

Originally posted by PotKettle
It's nice to see at least some of the of OWS contingent admit that they are anarchists at heart.

This shouldn't be too much of a surprise. I've heard people referring to OWS as essentially being the Left's answer to the Tea Party, which is pretty much dead right. A trollish way of saying this could be to quite literally refer to Occupy, as being America's Red Army; in fact, some of them probably wouldn't even mind that reference.

It's certainly noble of you to speak on behalf of 'the people,' if when you say 'the people' you are referring to narcissistic puerile juveniles and their aging-hippie coddlers looking to relive their glory years of the sixties and seventies.

This isn't much other than antagonistic trolling; although it could also possibly be referred to as a conservative attempt at rational argument.

Unfortunately, you are but a small minority of the American people, most of which are expressing annoyance towards your 'peaceful' Marxist tactics. Certainly, in any society there will be a small percentage of disgruntled populace. OWS typifies this subclass of malcontents, the losers if you will.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Marx is a red herring. The guy was a psychopath, who got together with his brother psychopaths, and instituted a psychopathic regime in Russia a hundred or so years back. He was very useful to the Capitalist breed of psychopaths as well, because they were able to use Stalin's genocide as a strawman argument to claim that the concept of equality in general had been discredited as a result.

It is rather telling that you say that you feel proud of America due in part to the anarchy symbols you see being used by the OWS movement. You then go on to project your anarchist beliefs on to the founding fathers even proudly proclaiming that that is "what your founding fathers would have wanted to see."

These days, the founders would rightfully be referred to as Libertarians, (as in, Libertarian right wing) but the truth is that they only really wanted freedom for themselves, and not necessarily for everyone else. Jefferson was a slave owner. Washington was the primary architect of the genocide of the Native Americans. They had some enlightened ideas in some respects, but in other ways they really weren't nice men. Then again, that's fairly standard for Freemasons.

The Old Right is very different from left anarchism. Left anarchism is generally collectivist in nature; they don't think in terms of individual people, but groups. Left anarchists also hate Capitalism, and pretty much any form of trade involving money in general, and want such to be destroyed. Left anarchists also tend to care about the environment, and think of it as being important. Left anarchists, because of their collective focus, will claim to care about other people. Sometimes that is true, but other times it's because they think groups have more power than individuals, and so they want to manipulate or otherwise coerce individuals into joining their group.

The Old Right didn't have problems with Capitalism or monetary exchange, although those with the most integrity, usually wanted it to be relatively small scale, non-corporate, and gold-based. The Old Right are also individualistic, in Rand's sense of the word. They don't generally think or care about other people, or the environment, as they generally see both of those issues as being "externalities," that don't really have the ability to affect them in an important way.

I doubt that you have studied enough history as to be able to guess what the founding fathers had in mind when they created the Constitution. I'll give you hint though, personal freedom and liberty, both of which you OWSers are infringing on with your little shanty towns of filth and feces.

You're demonstrating large amounts of mainstream naivete and groupthink, here. Go and look up how many times city officials have been caught, engaging in outright lies about both OWS' activities, and the nature of their camps. Virtually every claim as to poor hygiene in particular has been a complete lie, and has been used purely as a rationale for denying OWS their Constitutional right, since you brought it up, to freedom of assembly.

I probably shouldn't have bothered going into this much depth with you, since your overall tone suggests that you weren't intending to do anything other than troll and attempt to offend people; but sometimes I like to at least hope that such people can be reached.

reply posted on 31-1-2012 @ 07:06 PM by PotKettle

Originally posted by petrus4

You're demonstrating large amounts of mainstream naivete and groupthink, here. Go and look up how many times city officials have been caught, engaging in outright lies about both OWS' activities, and the nature of their camps. Virtually every claim as to poor hygiene in particular has been a complete lie, and has been used purely as a rationale for denying OWS their Constitutional right, since you brought it up, to freedom of assembly.

I probably shouldn't have bothered going into this much depth with you, since your overall tone suggests that you weren't intending to do anything other than troll and attempt to offend people; but sometimes I like to at least hope that such people can be reached.

Outside of a couple of jabs at thrown at conservatives, some baseless accusations hurled at the media, which slants left by the way, and some rudimentary logical fallacies thrown in for good cause, I am not sure you went into much depth on anything. Perhaps you can enlighten me and point out some of the 'large amounts of my mainstream naivete and groupthink' that you claim I have been demonstrating. I always love being accused of groupthink as if you have ever come up with an original idea on your own. All of your philosophical arguments are pretty much the same arguments that have been rehashed around for centuries, Mr Descartes. Also, it is freedom of peaceful assembly, that is unless Fox News has been telling us lies like they always do.

Admittedly, I am quite humbled that someone with your obviously immense intellect, is compassionate enough to allot time out of his/her otherwise busy schedule to educate those otherwise stupid dumb kunsurvatives about how they are too dumb to know how dumb they are. That's probably why you are a better person than I am, although probably not better when it comes to material possessions.

reply posted on 31-1-2012 @ 08:15 PM by Dystopiaphiliac

Originally posted by PotKettle

Originally posted by DystopiaphiliacHowever to make a factual conclusion about the goals of OWS you would have to know the personal story and reasons for EACH and EVERY SINGLE person there. So until you do that everybody needs to stop calling them all jobless hippies and what-not, making all these blatant generalizations.

Let me get this straight. You want me to stop making a generalization, which you even concede is correct, because I don't know the specific motivation behind every single member of the population? Generalizations are made because they are true for the most of the population. Yes, there may be members of this population who do not possess the same characteristics of the general population we are referring to and these members are called exceptions. The presence of exceptions does not diminish the validity of the original generalization. No offense, but your logic and reasoning skills exemplify those of a failed philosophy student. Maybe you should ask for your money back.

When somebody says, OWS is socialist, or communist, or full of jobless hippies, they are making a generalization about a massive organization of individuals. Prove to me most OWS members are "unproductive members of society" that "sing kumbaya" all day "holding hands." And I'll prove to you that most US citizens are fat and lazy. Also cut out the bad personal attacks. A failed philosophy student? That was out right immature.

edit on 31-1-2012 by Dystopiaphiliac because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 31-1-2012 @ 09:05 PM by petrus4

Originally posted by PotKettle
Admittedly, I am quite humbled that someone with your obviously immense intellect, is compassionate enough to allot time out of his/her otherwise busy schedule to educate those otherwise stupid dumb kunsurvatives about how they are too dumb to know how dumb they are. That's probably why you are a better person than I am, although probably not better when it comes to material possessions.

Thank you for proving my point. My work here is done.

reply posted on 31-1-2012 @ 09:13 PM by petrus4

Originally posted by Dystopiaphiliac
When somebody says, OWS is socialist, or communist, or full of jobless hippies, they are making a generalization about a massive organization of individuals.

It's called Otherisation, or a violation of the Golden Rule. As in, as long as it is somebody else who has lost their job, their home, or both as a result of the bailouts, then said people are obviously just filthy, indolent hippies who could very easily find work, but who choose not to. If it hasn't happened to me, I'm fine, and that's all I care about.

Maybe it's vindictive of me, but I find myself looking forward to when people like PotKettle end up getting hit by the economic poison ball themselves. Hopefully they might learn something; but then again, he's already expressed that education isn't something he's terribly interested in.

Having to sleep in a tent city themselves, however, might provide other people with similar opinions, with a change of perspective.

edit on 31-1-2012 by petrus4 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 31-1-2012 @ 09:17 PM by PotKettle

Originally posted by petrus4
[
Thank you for proving my point. My work here is done.

Gee, why I am not surprised? Good to see that you are basking in your imagined victory. Now, at least you can't accuse me of being selfish.

reply posted on 31-1-2012 @ 09:20 PM by PotKettle

Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by Dystopiaphiliac
When somebody says, OWS is socialist, or communist, or full of jobless hippies, they are making a generalization about a massive organization of individuals.

It's called Otherisation, or a violation of the Golden Rule. As in, as long as it is somebody else who has lost their job, their home, or both as a result of the bailouts, then said people are obviously just filthy, indolent hippies who could very easily find work, but who choose not to. If it hasn't happened to me, I'm fine, and that's all I care about.

Maybe it's vindictive of me, but I find myself looking forward to when people like PotKettle end up getting hit by the economic poison ball themselves. Hopefully they might learn something; but then again, he's already expressed that education isn't something he's terribly interested in.

Having to sleep in a tent city themselves, however, might provide other people with similar opinions, with a change of perspective.
edit on 31-1-2012 by petrus4 because: (no reason given)

Yes, because obviously you are more educated than I am as your original and witty, "Thanks for proving my point" retort has aptly demonstrated.

reply posted on 1-2-2012 @ 02:33 AM by ShaunSwindon

The video was removed

reply posted on 1-2-2012 @ 07:05 AM by CottonwoodStormy

reply to post by PotKettle

I applaud your strength, and I just happened upon an article today that I think all occupy protesters should be aware of, they are not alone!!! There is a total media blackout on millions of people that have shutdown Sicily, no incoming or outgoing for the last 2 weeks. Imagine if Manhattan was shutdown? The governments do not want you to know so as not to fuel the occupy protest anymore. Here is the link where you can see the proof. Best wishes and good luck: poorrichards-blog.blogspot.com...-form

reply posted on 1-2-2012 @ 07:10 AM by CottonwoodStormy

reply to post by MemoryShock

Hi best wishes to your American awakening, I don't know if your aware but your not alone. There is a complete media blackout on the total shutdown of Sicily. Millions have literally shut Sicily down for the last 2 weeks. Imagine if Manhattan was shutdown, thats why they have not reported whats happening in Sicily where there is no ingoing or outgoing reporting; Here is the link to the proof this is happening. Again good luck, many in the world supports what your doing!!! poorrichards-blog.blogspot.com...-form

reply posted on 1-2-2012 @ 08:24 AM by CottonwoodStormy

reply to post by MemoryShock

This is another article to verify what I stated earlier, discussing the invisible revolution dubbed "the European spring", check this out everyone!!!! joannenova.com.au...

reply posted on 1-2-2012 @ 09:10 AM by dadgad

Originally posted by PotKettle
reply to post by dadgad

First off let me applaud you on your English skills which are probably better than those of most of the US populace. I am in my early thirties and you appear to be in your early twenties, so I concede that we may look at things from different perspectives. I just do not think that you have thoroughly thought through your reverence of anarchy.

Anarchy is the absence of government or simply put, lawlessness, which distilled down to it's most basic form can be described as an environment where the individual is left to fend for himself. This might be good if you are a survivalist but unfortunately, most of the Western population, I'll include myself in here, does not know how to hunt, how to grow food, and how to build a shelter, etc. Hence, we decide to give up a little bit of our liberty and freedom to a government which will help us with the things we would not be able to do individually; One which for the most part promotes and protects a free market system. Yes, the US government is not perfect but I would certainly prefer what we have now over a system of anarchy. So I hope you will forgive me if I seem a bit contemptuous of the OWSers, most whom would not be able to survive for a week without this government they so favor disbanding.
edit on 31-1-2012 by PotKettle because: (no reason given)

Thank you for your compliment. I feel flattered. The English language is in my opinion by far the richest most beautiful language available on this planet. There is so much to it and I feel that even though having reached a respectable level, I am still far away from really understanding what it is all about.

I am not certain if I agree with the notion that anarchism means total absence of government. I say that because it is simply impossible and goes against mans nature. We are in essence destined to cooperate together. In principle I am an adherent of a more soft form of anarchism. Chomsky anarcho-syndicalism and resource-based economy is what comes close to it. I am an anarchist and a socialist. I hate everything about liberal capitalism. For one I hate the illusions it creates. Illusions that permeate deep into our everyday life. Communism was in my opinion a capitalist creation. The Bolsheviks were financed by Wall Street bankers, who continued to supply and finance the Sovjets for a long period of time until way beyond the WW2. They even made sure they got the bomb! They used Communism to their advantage to create this political climate of opposing conflict, so that they could create these proxy-wars and finance both sides of them. If you think I am pulling this out of thin air I suggest you read the works of Antony C. Sutton. A scholar whose works should receive Nobel Prizes. Note that nobody up so far has been able to discredit or debunk his work. They kept it out of the bookshelves yes. But his sources were water-tight. Even Zbigniew Brzezinski in his book Between Two Ages: America's Role in the Technetronic Era had to credit Sutton for his fine work.

A free market is another Capitalist illusion. They create the confusion by having you believe that free-markets and freedom are the same thing or that the first guarantees the other. This is absolute preposterous rubbish. A true free market will do the opposite. Markets are nothing but a battle-field where the smartest, most cunning and most ruthless becomes the victor. This is exactly the reason why 'the people, the workers' throughout history have risen against industrial terror. Because in this game called market competition it is always the small man, the worker that gets the boot in his face. Capitalism is so cruel and heartless, in actuality it cares about nothing and nobody, let alone the welfare of a nation. Why do you think they manufacture their products in third world nations, leaving their homeland bereft of labor? Because they don't care, don't care. Their aim is one thing and one thing only. Maximize profits by the cheapest means possible.

I no longer believe in this current system. I understand that in that sense I should seize to mention the founding fathers. But I remain with my argument that they embraced civil disobedience and they would have loved to see these fierce young Americans stand up against this monstrosity, this corrupted filthy super elite powerhouse that views ordinary citizens as cattle and cannon fodder.

"Give me Liberty of give me death!" is what Patrick Henry said. So there you have it!

I love when people challenge the system, challenge believe systems, shock people by burning a flag and occupying buildings. As long as actual violence, you know, killing and shooting isn't occurring it can be the most powerful force of creativity and positive change.

These people will cut your balls off when you let them. Have you believe that this is all there is. That they are doing their best. That they care about you. Liars they all are! They will never cut my balls off. Instead, it will be them that one day realize that something is missing down there!

"Every government is run by liars and nothing they say should be believed" is what Irving Stone said. And I know and you know and we all know this to be true. They lie all the time.

And we can do better then this. We are awesome creatures.

edit on 1-2-2012 by dadgad because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 1-2-2012 @ 04:18 PM by revolutionphase1

Occupy has too many people protesting totally different topics. One old lady has a sign screaming about health care while a younger person throws rocks at police and screams about the 9/11 cover-up.

Humans need to pick 1 subject, form multiple groups, and attack govement and law-backed fronts that support either the slow poisoning of humans(flouride, aluminium, corn syrup, tobacco) or companies that take advantage of humans (pick your potion)
Phase 2 is we attack the White House, that alone will show the world Humans are fed up with all this conspiracy terrorist crap. OBAMA FOR 2012???? Please watch this 2 minute clip: www.youtube.com...

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