The Appeal to Emotion, Belief, Popularity, and Authority

Fallacies, a handy tool when no logic or reasoning exists behind your beliefs. Your beliefs aren't structured on reasoning but on fallacies.

This is the basis for most peoples belief systems. This is not to debunk anyone's beliefs or to say anyone is wrong for what they believe in. The problem comes when people who like to debate but have no logic or reasoning other than pulling the appeal to emotion, belief, popularity, and/or authority card. It prohibits logical debates and discussions because there is nothing to show for your beliefs other than saying it must be true cause it make me feel good.

Why bother talking about your beliefs if the only reasoning you have for them is fallacies that don't make sense to others. Fallacies make it difficult for others to see where you are coming from.

As long as you stay true to your beliefs whatever they may be, the importance others accord to your beliefs is meaningless. Everybody leads a different path in life, I think that as long as you find what you are searching for in life the path and beliefs that lead you there acted simply as tools to your means.

And logic again is relative,as is science and knowledge, once you "know" you stop learning.
In the words of French writer Bernard Werber ( the man is brilliant just saying ) : La relativité est absolue
Relativity is absolute

But I get where you're coming from, a lot of "religious" beliefs are empty of true logic of the mind and the soul and again it is up to each and everyone of us to make sense of our beliefs and keep them sacred to ourselves

Believe what you want. It's your life!
More power to you brother Peace!

reply to post by Ralphy

Let's call them fallacies, but that doesn't mean they should be discarded. They should lead you to further analysis. The argument that they are a part of may not be logically proved, but the conclusion can still be true.

Paying attention to a sign that says "Stop! Bridge Out" means you are accepting an argument from authority.
Going to see a movie that all your friends are raving about? Argument from popularity.
Thinking things will be good as you see your spouse coming to you? Argument from emotion.

I'm not sure how you mean "appeal to belief." Almost by definition, belief is not proof. Belief comes from weighing evidence, then believing one side or the other.

It's foolish to think that God can be "proven" in a strict scientific sense. That belief can have enough evidence behind it to make it reasonable to open-minded people, but "proof" is not expected or required, just evidence.

I may have been hard to follow, (it seems confusing to me, and I wrote it) but I'd be happy to clarify, if you want.

What I find interesting and at times extremely frustrating is the apparent misunderstanding of many regarding the bounds of Logic and Reason.

Honestly, I can't tell you how many times I've seen people discount the belief of another based on it being illogical or unreasonable, yet does this necessarily make that belief untrue??

Consider that people can only use logic and reason within the mental framework of what they themselves deem possible or plausible. That is, everyone's logic and reason is held captive to the boundaries of the mind. Whether it be a refusal to consider an idea that falls outside their predetermined box of what is "Acceptable" to believe, or an inability to process all the factors involved in a hypothesis without prejudice.

Despite this, many people would like to believe that they have Mastered the use of Logic and Reason and can correctly Deduce the "Fallacies" of others beliefs. All the while, they are blind to their own limitations.

You see there are many things which cannot be DEDUCED through mans logic and reason.... there are many things at work in this world which are beyond our mental abilities to comprehend, or understand thoroughly, and as a result this prevents us from "LOGICALLY" or "REASONABLY" accepting them.

It does not follow then, that all things beyond our comprehension are necessarily Fallacies or even indeed baseless. One can have Evidence of the Truth of a matter which cannot be entirely subjected to the Reason and Logic of another or even oneself.

In fact, there are indeed matters of Belief which Exceed the Limits of mans Reason, which can only be considered and accepted according to Faith. To have Faith in Something is to Believe in something which you have not Seen. It is to consider something to be True even though it cannot be fully subjected to the litmus tests of the mind, or the observations of Science.

It is here that Faith is NOT pitted against reason or Logic.... it is beyond Reason and Logic and the only means by which one can attain the Knowledge of Truth that exceeds the limitations of the human mind. Faith is an Enabler, not a Dis-abler when it comes to our pursuit of what is INDEED actual and Absolute Truth.

All those who scoff at the power of a mans Faith are fools. Faith can lead a man to truth which would be unattainable via any other intellectual pursuit. This of course causes Man to be completely dependent upon the object of his Faith. And thus it is immensely important to be careful about what or whom you put your Faith in. Be it an idea, fellow man, or divine Being. Non the less, a Man of Faith can FAR exceed the knowledge and accomplishments of those who chain themselves to the limits of their own logic and reason.

It is ironic to me that So many people run away from and fear the one thing that can truly set them free..... FAITH.

Soul

The reason I'm talking about reason and logic is because of argument sake. I'm not saying anyone is wrong because everyone has a good reason personally to believe what they do. What I'm getting at is the people who want to participate in a discussion but don't really make sense.

For example:

It's understandable that someone believes in the bible and that is great but to have a discussion it would be best to say a little more than "because the bible says so." I'm not talking about everyone because there are people who reason great with their religion and/or spiritual beliefs. It doesn't make for good discussion when someone doesn't fully understand what they are talking about.

Faith is great to have but it doesn't mean you can't have logical reasons to have your faith.

reply to post by Ralphy

Dear Ralphy,

Thank you very much for clearing up your position for me. I get confused easily and need all the help I can get.

I agree with you completely.

A well-informed Christian should be able to articulate his beliefs in a reasonable manner and carry on a conversation in a sensible manner.

Of course, a well-informed anybody should be able to do that for whatever group they're associated with, but sometimes we fail. Ask an OWSer about fractional reserve banking, Special Drawing Rights, On-budget versus off-budget debt, and so on. I think it's human nature for people to be a little short in understanding all the underlying principles.

When you get into a conversation like that, you might want to ask "Why do you believe that to be true?" "The Bible says so." But how do you know you're interpreting it correctly, maybe its a metaphor, or a vision, or a love song? Does it fit with its context? Tell me why you think this means what you say it does"

I have evidence that brings me to my belief, and I hope I can articulate it. But I can't "prove" it. Maybe you can help some less informed Christians to want to study their beliefs and come back to finish the talk when they have.

Anyway, you've made quite a reasonable request. Thanks for bringing it up.

With respect,
Charles1952