I hate this pro-US, anti-islamic policy on ATS

I don't mean to take one side or the other in this, but "I hate" is in the OP title.

reply to post by theBigToe

This is why negotiations with countries like Iran cease and it comes to war. You are absolute on your stance and instead of taking responsibility for your own actions you blame everybody else.

No, it ceases when a country stands up for what it believes are unfair sanctions. Ask Japan. It ended badly for them as it would for Iran, but, why don't you try cornering a wild animal and see what happens?

That you hate the U.S. for possessing nuclear weapons, when it created that technology forever ago, and are propping up Iran's right to build nuclear bombs in 2012 for "peaceful purposes" when it sits on nothing but oil, is ridiculous and doesnt even warrant a well thought out response

Where have I said I hate the US? I don't agree with them holding Iran to the NPT when they themselves won't follow it to the letter, but Israel isn't even a signor of the NPT and no one does nothing to them. North Korea withdrew itself as a signatory and nothing. If Iran wants a bomb for a deterrent, then I don't think anyone, especially the US should say anything to them. PS- none of your responses have been well thought out, they have been conjecture and a regurgitation of MSM and the government.

especially when their leadership says they will use them

Source please.

Nobody needs to build nuclear energy and nuclear bombs. Do you hear me? NOBODY.

The one thing we agree on. Thorium reactors should be mandatory for nuclear energy if it is going to be used as an energy source.

I kind of thought my post would be the end of our debate. Thanks for trying!

Originally posted by beezzer
What you call well thought out opinions, others would see as hateful rhetoric.
I'll take your suggestions under advisement.

Challenge accepted.

I will prove your post was hateful by plain logic.

On first page you said:

Originally posted by beezzer
Just one page and I'd say the hate is pretty one-sided towards the west right now.

Just saying.

From early start you implied LIE. Your facts about hateful anti-west first page is based on lie.

What is the truth?
Up to your reply, 8 posts were pro-US and 10 anti-war. I would say honest, it is an even.
You lied that all first page is about hating west.

With your statement you only wanted to spread hate on author of thread, and to all people who are against war with Iran, or against any war policy. You are warmonger but you don't like to be call that way.

So how can we continue talking when you from first start implied a lie.
How can I regain trust in you?
It is so easy to do the same with all warmongers.

I dont care what you call
your country
your religion
your culture

If you can not understand the concept of chivalry, and you treat women as 2nd class citizens, you are TRASH!

If you do not have enough intestinal fortitude to stand up for the female of the species....you are wasting precious oxygen in this environment, and you should stop doing that.

You were brought into this world by a female. If you can not respect the fact that she did that, please leave this world.

reply to post by ferumbra
Calling me a warmonger because I don't agree with you.

My my.

(how hateful)

Originally posted by vogon42
I dont care what you call
your country
your religion
your culture

If you can not understand the concept of chivalry, and you treat women as 2nd class citizens, you are TRASH!

If you do not have enough intestinal fortitude to stand up for the female of the species....you are wasting precious oxygen in this environment, and you should stop doing that.

You were brought into this world by a female. If you can not respect the fact that she did that, please leave this world.

Sorry man but you missed the point. There is no war to free women. Just war to destroy their economy and to take resources. Did you ever heard about Israel female problems? I never heard US offered help to help woman rights in Iran, Iraq, or others.. Entering in country and destroying cities and millions of lives won't solve problems.

Do you really think Iranian woman's want to be freed by US or Israel military?
Really man, think about it.
Woman's don't want war. They never want war.
They love more than males and that's why they don't want war.
That's why sex industry is so strong, it is about dominating woman powers.
We are male bastards you know if we look at all males.

I agree that woman is worlds precious treasure, and all glory to them, but war in Iran won't solve woman problems there. It will bring just one more generation of poor, uneducated and revenge hungry generations.

reply to post by ferumbra

Well since the title of the thread is

I hate this pro-US, anti-islamic policy on ATS

My understanding of most of islam is they do not allow women to
step out of the house, unless covered from heat to toe, with only eyes showing
drive a car
own a business
......etc

THAT is oppression.

PLEASE....PLEASE feel free to educate me if this view displays ignorance.
(I ask questions because I want to try and get a perspective of the different cultural views.)

I do not by any means think this justifies invading a country. It simply makes me view the culture as UN-chivalrous and therefor offensive to my morality, and common human decency.


ETA: Just to give a hint at my perspective, the culture I grew up in, is that -
Every woman is a lady, and should be treated as such.

reply to post by vogon42


Women in Islam

The study of women in Islam investigates the role of women within the religion of Islam. The complex relationship between women and Islam is defined by Islamic texts, the history and culture of the Muslim world. The Qur'an states that both men and women are equal, but also, as in 4:34, that "Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard." Although the Quran does say this, the superiority of men is interpreted in terms of strength by the context - men maintain women.

Women employment patterns today.

Due to cultural and not religious beliefs, in some cases, when women have the right to work and are educated, women's job opportunities may in practice be unequal to those of men. In Egypt for example, women have limited opportunities to work in the private sector because women are still expected to put their role in the family first, which causes men to be seen as more reliable in the long term.

Culture, not religion.

Read the whole article and follow the links to learn even more. Their culture is different than ours. Their beliefs are different than ours. This doesn't make them evil. I don't agree with everything they do either, but then I don't live there either.

Originally posted by superman2012
reply to post by theBigToe

 

I am!??!? The only people I hate, and I have stated it before, are war-mongers. So if you are self identifying yourself as that, then yes, I hate you. Are you trying to tell me that the US or any country for that matter doesn't suppress free speech? Does the US have a massive army that is bankrupting its country? Does the US have WMD? Where is your proof that Iran does? The IAEA says they don't, your Secretary of Defense says they don't, Iran says the don't and the ISIS says they don't. Is this just conjecture on your part? I am going to assume that you have sources as you are arguing this point quite feverishly.

How does Iran differ as a war mongering nation? They went against Iraq - We supplied Iraq for defence. Sure, it got out of hand, but the truth still stands. Persia has been a war mongering nation for many a century. I dont dissagree that the US isnt, but most of what we've done was out of protection of ourselves and others.

You can label it an Oil War, but truth is.. those people were getting slaughtered. Which war? all of them!

Even though every war we've been in could be looked at as though it was for war, the underlying truth, even as we seen it (x-army here), people were getting killed and that had to stop. Tyranny is what we stand against. Sure, we dont have a right to muck around in other countries affairs, but when it comes to evil dictators, why dont we? I would HOPE that another country steps in should we americans fall under such tyranny. Many of those people were hoping the same. Dont say they were not.

Don't listen to the other kids in school who in turn listen to their scared parents. Do some critical thinking and research and you will see what other people see. Please source where Iran wants to wipe out the US.

We dont.. We watch the news, ats, and some of us have been in the thick of it. All research I have done all lead to the same thing.. It comes out of the horses mouth. Why do you choose, like all the rest of these flaggers, to ignore what comes out of the man's mouth??? Dont you even see the examples being made there right this moment? Of course you dont, or you wouldnt be saying this.

I don't agree with them having nukes either, but, how can any country with nuclear weapons tell another country not to have them? No country has used them besides the US thus far. PS- the only reason you entered the second world war was to press sanctions against Japan until it felt it had no choice but to attack the US...sound familiar? I would say Iran is facing the provocations set against it quite well in not attacking first.

I want to touch on this too..

Think about it this way.

Would you let your 5 year old son walk out the house with a shotgun? Probably not. My father bought us a shotgun when we were very young. We were not allowed to use it alone untill we grew a few more years. By 12, me and my step brother were hunting on our own. He seen that we were capable due to the years of trust and the way we carried ourselves.

Some would still dissagree and say that we were still to young. I dissagree, but in the hands of some kids.. Yes! Definatly too young. So, is it age? Nah, it's how they carry themselves.

Would you trust a country with a nuke that has never had any experiance with even a power plant?

Logical answer is.. Help them build the plant, show them to use it, watch them and assure it's not used to vile means. They do not want this. Why should we just give them the knowledge when they keep saying over and over again how they want Israel to be obliterated. They say their imam will do it. They say it should be wiped off the map.

Someone here even said that if Israel was in the US, they would leave it alone... Guess what... Totaly BS.

Argentina JUST captured iranian operatives attempting to blow up temple (2 of them) in their country. Where is Argentina? It sure in the hell isnt in the middle east. This is why my educated guessing says - Oh Hell No! Why would you give a child a gun? Why would you give an idiot the bomb?

reply to post by theRhenn

TextI would HOPE that another country steps in should we americans fall under such tyranny.

Iran,Russia and China will step in and liberate you guys from the tyranny of the elites soon enough.I hope they go easy on the collateral murder though.Easier than you guys have anyway.

reply to post by superman2012


Well, thats Ok then .....I guess.
If they are in the US, they just need to understand MY culture is different from their culture.
Treat my
Mother
Wife
Daughter

The way YOUR culture is, EXPECT to get a lesson from me about US culture.

If you dont like it.....PLEASE fight back, (and give me a reason to use force).

I love my mother, my wife, my daughter.......cross them, and you will answer to me. (thats called being a Man)

Originally posted by theubermensch
reply to post by theRhenn

 

TextI would HOPE that another country steps in should we americans fall under such tyranny.

Iran,Russia and China will step in and liberate you guys from the tyranny of the elites soon enough.I hope they go easy on the collateral murder though.Easier than you guys have anyway.

Hehe I fear if they are our liberators. Being liberated by another tyrant is now what I have in mind when I mention hope. lol

reply to post by theRhenn

How does Iran differ as a war mongering nation? They went against Iraq - We supplied Iraq for defence. Sure, it got out of hand, but the truth still stands. Persia has been a war mongering nation for many a century. I dont dissagree that the US isnt, but most of what we've done was out of protection of ourselves and others.

You're joking right? Right?

The war began when Iraq invaded Iran, launching a simultaneous invasion by air and land into Iranian territory on 22 September 1980.

Even though every war we've been in could be looked at as though it was for war, the underlying truth, even as we seen it (x-army here), people were getting killed and that had to stop. Tyranny is what we stand against. Sure, we dont have a right to muck around in other countries affairs, but when it comes to evil dictators, why dont we? I would HOPE that another country steps in should we americans fall under such tyranny. Many of those people were hoping the same. Dont say they were not.

I wouldn't dare say that people don't want evil dictators killing them. That's not what I said. So, why isn't the US going to Darfur (approx. 300,000 civilians killed.), Rwanda (500,000 to 1,000,000 killed), South Africa (racial genocide)? So before you toot the US MSM horn that Iran is horrible, do some homework.

We dont.. We watch the news, ats, and some of us have been in the thick of it. All research I have done all lead to the same thing.. It comes out of the horses mouth. Why do you choose, like all the rest of these flaggers, to ignore what comes out of the man's mouth??? Dont you even see the examples being made there right this moment? Of course you dont, or you wouldnt be saying this.

You obviously don't watch enough news. What exactly has come out of the "man's mouth"? What examples? I am open to other ideas as long as they make sense and not just a repetition of MSM and the US government's unfounded accusations(Iraq anyone?).

Would you trust a country with a nuke that has never had any experiance with even a power plant?

Irrelevant. They were getting info from the US and training from Russia.

After delays, Iran's first nuclear power plant, Bushehr I reactor was complete with major assistance of Russian government agency Rosatom and officially opened on 12 September 2011.

Why should we just give them the knowledge when they keep saying over and over again how they want Israel to be obliterated. They say their imam will do it. They say it should be wiped off the map.

Source please. This has been the most mis-translated part of the "Let's bomb them group".

Argentina JUST captured iranian operatives attempting to blow up temple (2 of them) in their country. Where is Argentina? It sure in the hell isnt in the middle east. This is why my educated guessing says - Oh Hell No! Why would you give a child a gun? Why would you give an idiot the bomb?

Irrelevant to the discussion. Didn't the US kill a bunch of innocents as well in their "War on Terror"? How do you achieve peace by killing innocents? If someone killed your entire family but in the aftermath one was a serial killer, would you be happy? The US creates most of the terrorists that want to attack them.

"What causes the documented high level of civilian casualties -- 3,000 - 3,400 [October 7, 2001 thru March 2002] civilian deaths -- in the U.S. air war upon Afghanistan? The explanation is the apparent willingness of U.S. military strategists to fire missiles into and drop bombs upon, heavily populated areas of Afghanistan."
Professor Marc W. Herold
Ph.D., M.B.A., B.Sc.

Originally posted by vogon42
reply to post by superman2012

 

Well, thats Ok then .....I guess.
If they are in the US, they just need to understand MY culture is different from their culture.
Treat my
Mother
Wife
Daughter

The way YOUR culture is, EXPECT to get a lesson from me about US culture.

If you dont like it.....PLEASE fight back, (and give me a reason to use force).

I love my mother, my wife, my daughter.......cross them, and you will answer to me. (thats called being a Man)

Please source me an article that shows they treat other women this way. If someone treated my wife, daughters like that, I to, would be quick to react.

reply to post by theRhenn

Persia has been a war mongering nation for many a century. I dont dissagree that the US isnt, but most of what we've done was out of protection of ourselves and others.

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. Iran leaves other countries alone. The Iraq/Iran war was not an Iranian invasion of Iraq. The U.S. and it's allies have been meddling in Iran's affairs since before the 1950's, was that for your protection? Or was it for strategic interests? I think the answer is pretty obvious.

The 1953 Iranian coup d'état (known in Iran as the 28 Mordad coup[3]) was the overthrow of the democratically elected government of Iranian Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh on 19 August 1953, orchestrated by the intelligence agencies of the United Kingdom and the United States under the name TPAJAX Project.[4] The coup saw the transition of Mohammad-Rezā Shāh Pahlavi from a constitutional monarch to an authoritarian one who relied heavily on United States support to hold on to power until his own overthrow in February 1979.[5]

In 1951, Iran's oil industry was nationalized with near-unanimous support of Iran's parliament in a bill introduced by Mossadegh who led the nationalist parliamentarian faction. Iran's oil had been controlled by the British-owned Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (AIOC).[6] Popular discontent with the AIOC began in the late 1940s, a large segment of Iran's public and a number of politicians saw the company as exploitative and a vestige of British imperialism.[7] Despite Mosaddegh's popular support, Britain was unwilling to negotiate its single most valuable foreign asset, and instigated a worldwide boycott of Iranian oil to pressure Iran economically.[8] Initially, Britain mobilized its military to seize control of the Abadan oil refinery, the world's largest, but Prime Minister Clement Attlee opted instead to tighten the economic boycott[9] while using Iranian agents to undermine Mosaddegh's government.[10] With a change to more conservative governments in both Britain and the United States, Churchill and the U.S. Eisenhower administration decided to overthrow Iran's government though the predecessor U.S. Truman administration had opposed a coup.[11]

If you don't like Wikipedia feel free to find your own sources.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed

Woah, the Persians were in a quite famous battle if you recall. For those that say I love the Persians, I sure didn't in this battle!

reply to post by superman2012


it's funny you say that, reading the Rhenn's last comment I couldn't help but think of Xerxes!

All we need is Leonitus to jump in and scream "This is Sparta!"

Oh man, I wonder how many members actually base their recollection of Persian history on the movie we know as "300"?

I believe it was you who exposed the myth on another thread about how Iran "had to be stopped in the early 1990's" (according to Israel) because they were very close to acquiring nuclear weapons. I guess they're going to milk this agenda of theirs until the whole Middle East is carpet bombed and ran by a centralized bank.

Originally posted by superman2012

Please source me an article that shows they treat other women this way........

Other women
OTHER WOMEN??
If you treat your own wife, and daughter this way.....you are a problem.

So for you, chivalry ONLY applies to your immediate family members??

The thought that
"every woman is a lady, and should be treated as such, does not mean "only your family", it means EVERY female of the species.

I guess you have no concept of what it means to be a man, but perhaps you could try to at least understand what it means to be a human being with compassion, and understanding.

I initially fell for the anti-Islamic canard, as well; but then I did some digging of my own, and discovered a couple of things. From the Qu'ran:-

To every people (was sent) a messenger: when their messenger comes (before them), the matter will be judged between them with justice, and they will not be wronged. S. 10:47

The worshippers of false gods say: "If Allah had so willed, we should not have worshipped aught but Him - neither we nor our fathers,- nor should we have prescribed prohibitions other than His." So did those who went before them. But what is the mission of messengers but to preach the Clear Message? For We assuredly sent amongst every People a messenger, (with the Command), "Serve Allah, and eschew Evil": of the People were some whom Allah guided, and some on whom error became inevitably (established). So travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those who denied (the Truth). S. 16:35-36

To every people did We appoint rites (of sacrifice), that they might celebrate the name of Allah over the sustenance He gave them from animals (fit for food). But your god is One God: submit then your wills to Him (in Islam): and give thou the good news to those who humble themselves,- S. 22:34

To every People have We appointed rites and ceremonies which they must follow: let them not then dispute with thee on the matter, but do thou invite (them) to thy Lord: for thou art assuredly on the Right Way. S. 22:67

And from the Constitution of Medina:-

en.wikipedia.org...-Muslims

The security of God is equal for all groups,[22]
Non-Muslim members have equal political and cultural rights as Muslims. They will have autonomy and freedom of religion.[23]
Non-Muslims will take up arms against the enemy of the Ummah and share the cost of war. There is to be no treachery between the two.[24]
Non-Muslims will not be obliged to take part in religious wars of the Muslims.[25]

In other words, any Muslim who takes the life of a sincere adherent of any other religion, is him or herself a heretic according to their own theology; because said theology states that other ethnic groups have been sent revelatory communication, which is spiritually legitimate.

So do not fear them. I do not believe that Islam has the right to conquer the planet, as some of its' adherents believe; but at the same time, I do believe that the religion has spiritual legitimacy, for those for whom it was meant. I am entirely happy to let Muslims have their own faith, but I will insist that they allow me to have mine; and I am convinced that I would have their own Prophet's support in such an appeal.