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Tora! Tora! Tora!

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posted on Jan, 30 2012 @ 06:34 PM
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reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
 


In Germany that would have been the Gehlen Organization... "Rehabilitated" nazi's, and other anti communists working in conjunction with, but without sanction supposedly, NATO groups.

Undoubtedly were heavily involved in the movement of escaped nazi's via the "ratline", or Operation Paperclip.

Not one of the finer moments in U.S. foreign policy...

All in the name of saving Europe from communism...any means to an end.

Little realizing, or caring, I suppose; that when acting like an enemy, you become that which you are fighting. Seems a lesson we'll never learn.




posted on Jan, 30 2012 @ 07:20 PM
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Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
reply to post by seagull
 


Well, the whole post-WWII period in Europe was a rather sketchy time. Operation Gladio was put into effect where western-sponsored right-wing terrorists were virtually given "murder unlimited" status if they fought leftist movements without official involvement of western governments. And of course in a country like Germany, the apex of the war, there would be serious resentment towards the new colonizing powers by the Germans who lost everything.
edit on 30-1-2012 by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi because: (no reason given)


"serious resentment towards the new colonizing powers" you mean thats why Russia built the Berlin wall,, or was it because they wanted too starve the entire city of berlin ,into submission,,
or the American Airlift into Berlin,,,too stop the ,,,
new colonizing powers?

lets include the entire history,,

Me.



posted on Jan, 30 2012 @ 09:35 PM
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reply to post by BobAthome
 


True, there are two sides to the story. The Soviets, and their allies, I suppose you'd call them, were doing the same things.

Doesn't make it any less nasty, or wrong. Hadn't we, meaning, of course; the Western allies just defeated a tyrannical dictatorship, or two of them, counting Italy? So to fight the incursion of another tyranny, only of the proletariat this time, we employ not only the tactics of the defeated tyrant, but some of the very people who implemented that tyrant's policies? This is the irony of U.S. foreign policy that is, after sixty years plus, coming home to roost.

No, we aren't Nazis. We know that. But how must it look to those countries who have suffered through the sheer unadulterated stupidity that has been U.S. overseas policy for more than half a century? I can see where many might not see the truth, through the actions... Do our needs, in this small, small world, truly justify the means used towards that end?

I leave you to judge that, as for myself, I've made up my mind. I'll do what I can to change the direction we are headed in.

I love my country. But my love doesn't come equipped with blinders...


edit on 1/30/2012 by seagull because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 30 2012 @ 09:46 PM
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reply to post by seagull
 


"So to fight the incursion of another tyranny, only of the proletariat this time, "

the proletariat are the people,,,,the proletariat,, slaughtered an entire " line ",,in one night,,and too this day i believe it too have had,, very serious consequences on the history of Russia,
,the proletariat,, or marxist/lenist/trotsky/berria,,proletariat,,then took over,,
Using that claim,,
,,and as we can see today, Vladamre Putin,,or as i like too call him,,

old RAS,,,

yup very serious,,
and when they the "proletariat",,did away with old RAS,, i believe he said something,,
which has haunted Russia ever since,,sins of the fathers and all,,
very Checkov,or Hamlet even,,

Me.



posted on Jan, 30 2012 @ 09:50 PM
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reply to post by BobAthome
 


I'm no fan of the old Soviet bloc, and their methods... I just find it ironic that we, the guardians of freedom, utilized many of the same methods...that's all. My use of "proletariat" was used to convey the sense of irony that I feel...



posted on Jan, 30 2012 @ 11:33 PM
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FDR was trying to goad the Japanese into attacking the Philippines or a American unit in another country.

Americans were already fighting the Japanese in China IE The US sponsored Flying Tigers volunteer group

MacArthur we training the philippine army because FDR suspected that the Japanese would attack the Philippines and he wanted them under US command to tie up Japanese troops and navy units and to delay any attack on the US west coast.


Sorge was a Russian spy who had infiltrated the German embassy in Japan and when Sorge informed the Kremlin [in Russia] in October, 1941, that the Japanese intended to attack Pearl Harbor within 60 days, he received thanks for his report and the notice that Washington — Roosevelt, Marshall, Admiral Stark, et al. — had been advised of the Japanese intentions.

www.warhistoryfans.com...

What the US never suspected was the Japanese using 6 carriers in the attack on Pearl Harbor.
The US only thought it would be a small attack of two maybe three carriers and that japan would use the other carriers in hitting guam and/or the philippines at the same time.

Hitler(Basic Order Number 24) was trying to get the Japanese to attack the British in the pacific to tie up the units and FDR had visiting US units in just about every port the British military used hoping one would sunk during a Japanese attack on the British.
trhfaq.tripod.com...

FDRs plan was to get the Japanese to sink a US military ship/s as a act of war then use the US battleships and carriers in a major attacks on the Japanese fleet . This was FDRs “overt act of war” plan.
Plus FDR planed a major unrestricted submarine warfare campaign against the Japanese after he had seen how effective the German subs were in the Atlantic. this was the only thing that did work right after Pearl Harbor. but without the US carriers and battle ships to stage attacks on target found by the subs it did not work as good as it could have.

Three mistakes the Japanese made at Pearl Harbor.
Japanese pilots failed to destroy some two dozen oil storage tanks at Pearl Harbor and Hickam Field. Given that Japan went to war for oil, it is astounding that the tanks holding a two-year oil supply were not the primary target. Loss of the tanks would have reduced the remaining U.S. fleet to virtual scrap metal.

Also amazing is that the attack left the Navy's repair facilities, a main reason for any naval base, unscathed. Most ships sunk in the attack were raised from the mud and repaired. The carrier Yorktown, heavily damaged in the May 6 Battle of the Coral Sea, was repaired at Pearl Harbor in time to join the June 4-6 Battle of Midway. The Yorktown played a vital role in sinking four of the six carriers that attacked Pearl Harbor and putting Japan on the defensive just six months after the raid.

Finally, The submarine base was untouched. U.S. subs began deploying the day after the attack. This was costly to the Japanese

edit on 30-1-2012 by ANNED because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 30 2012 @ 11:38 PM
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reply to post by ANNED
 




And i thought real history was ,,forgotten,,,






edit on 30-1-2012 by BobAthome because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 02:27 AM
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Originally posted by BobAthome

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
reply to post by seagull
 


Well, the whole post-WWII period in Europe was a rather sketchy time. Operation Gladio was put into effect where western-sponsored right-wing terrorists were virtually given "murder unlimited" status if they fought leftist movements without official involvement of western governments. And of course in a country like Germany, the apex of the war, there would be serious resentment towards the new colonizing powers by the Germans who lost everything.
edit on 30-1-2012 by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi because: (no reason given)


"serious resentment towards the new colonizing powers" you mean thats why Russia built the Berlin wall,, or was it because they wanted too starve the entire city of berlin ,into submission,,
or the American Airlift into Berlin,,,too stop the ,,,
new colonizing powers?

lets include the entire history,,

Me.


Alright then.

The Nazis were initially supported and backed by the western powers, including Britain and the US. The Nazis were considered to be a major buffer between the West and the USSR, and the western powers were hoping that the Nazis would fight the communists for them. It wasn't until the Nazis began to carry out their own vision for global domination (along with Imperial Japan) that the West realized how big of a threat the Nazis actually posed to them.

Then the West buddied up with the Soviets to defeat the Nazis. How is that for the real history?



posted on Feb, 4 2012 @ 12:21 PM
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reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
 





The Nazis were initially supported and backed by the western powers, including Britain and the US.


It might be more correct to say that individuals, and some corportations had ties with the Nazi's. Some did support/back them, yes... Charles Lindbergh, Henry Ford, etc... all had dealings with the Nazi's. Most, when the reality of what they were supporting came to light, stopped. Too true, that some did not. But most did.


The Nazis were considered to be a major buffer between the West and the USSR, and the western powers were hoping that the Nazis would fight the communists for them. It wasn't until the Nazis began to carry out their own vision for global domination (along with Imperial Japan) that the West realized how big of a threat the Nazis actually posed to them. Then the West buddied up with the Soviets to defeat the Nazis. How is that for the real history?


Not bad. But it was more a case of "enemy of my enemy is my friend" rather than any tacit approval of either system. Both were used as stalking horses against the other



posted on Feb, 4 2012 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by seagull
 


"Stalking horse". Yes, that is a more valid description for those times.



posted on Feb, 4 2012 @ 02:51 PM
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Since the Israeli's will most probably be the cause of WWIII, shouldn't the title of the thread be Torah, Torah, Torah?



posted on Feb, 4 2012 @ 06:37 PM
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reply to post by WilburMercer
 


Yes. Yes. The evil Israeli's... The font of all evil in the world...

No other group of people ever, ever does anything that causes trouble for the rest of the world... Yadda, yadda, yadda...

Not to say they haven't caused an issue or twenty...but they're hardly the only ones. China. Libya. Iran. Iraq. The United States. Japan. North Korea. Great Britain. ...and on, and on, and on.



posted on Feb, 5 2012 @ 08:11 AM
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reply to post by seagull
 


No sense of humor eh?



posted on Feb, 5 2012 @ 09:26 AM
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reply to post by WilburMercer
 


Apologies. All too often, someone who says that, means every word of it...

Again, apologies.



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 07:54 AM
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Originally posted by WilburMercer
Since the Israeli's will most probably be the cause of WWIII, shouldn't the title of the thread be Torah, Torah, Torah?


You dog! You beat me to it!!



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