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Originally posted by Parta
who is wasting peoples time? you say that map... that stops at 12kya.... has something to do with pottery? no it doesn't... hans hasn't even looked at the map. i can tell by the stats. hehe hans. ur funny.
Please address how this map of a European cultures supports an invasion from Atlantis in the Atlantic ocean- the EG don't even cover the areas plato writes about
the men of Atlantis had subjected the parts of Libya within the columns of Heracles as far as Egypt, and of Europe as far as Tyrrhenia
in regard to pelagos that links says
3. flooded plain, γίνεται π. Hdt.2.97, cf. 3.117.
the other link uses the word pelagos for every instance of the "atlantic ocean". its not a waste of time. its proof.
you show me your link that says tufts university is wrong.
the sea stuff is me musing about what you obviously don't know of the world
... yet you carry on as some great expert.
noone that ever had an opinion on atlantis knew there was a sea in the centre of europe therefore their knowledge of the world at the time of is incomplete. so what? plato says its in europe himeslf. what else on a map of his world is as big as asia and libya combined. he's laughin. me too.
noone westerner [but me] had ever been to a museum to see all the artifacts. the east has never been with the west hans.
noone knows whats on the ground in middle europe, certainly not you
.... noone knows even to the point that a city thats bigger than rome can be sitting clearly with its huge wall visible obviously right from the hiway. nothing should surprise us.
Originally posted by Parta
reply to post by Hanslune
muddled? you aren't looking at maps, don't know a thing about geography, anthropology, genetics or mythology and i'm muddled?
thats the map. now you've looked. what isn't covered by plato? the pillares of hercules were not at gibraltar. they were on the freshwater sea okeanos potamos.plato says nothing about the atlantic ocean. that is very clear. pelgaos as it applies to plato is what did you say? some seamount thing?
This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable
that link takes you to the selection of lexicons in which to see the definition of pelagos. click on lsj since its the first and presto... pelagos:flooded plain. sorry hans. i thought you could figure that out. i guess you've never been to perseus before but since you know your plato in greek i thought maybe you had. you can click back and forth between grrek and english you know. thought you could figure that out.
and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent. Now in this island of Atlantis there was a great and wonderful empire which had rule over the whole island and several others, and over parts of the continent, and, furthermore, the men of Atlantis had subjected the parts of Libya within the columns of Heracles as far as Egypt, and of Europe as far as Tyrrhenia. This vast power, gathered into one, endeavoured to subdue at a blow our country and yours and the whole of the region within the straits;
i can show you atlantis in googlemaps and on the soil map of europe. its plain as the nose on your face [so says the national geological institute of romania]. you have better credentials than them?
want to see?
Originally posted by Hanslune
Yes very much so, but I do seem to know more than you I also know that when you start to lose a debate you started throwing insults - and man you started losing early, lol
Originally posted by Hanslune
here is the map
Here is what Plato said
This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable
That seems to be mention of the Atlantic ocean
Originally posted by Hanslune
Oh now we see what you were trying to hide by not giving a direct link
Originally posted by Hanslune
So its a ONE possible meaning out of how many Parta? I see associations with the sea and one for 'flooded plain' so why does this one mention out ruled the others? LOL oh wait that is what you want it to mean isn't it?
Originally posted by Hanslune
It seems to say real sea and etc, what are on about?
Originally posted by Hanslune
You've shown us that numbers of times, over and over - it hasn't improved with age nor been supported by evidence, and its been pointed out to you what the flaw is with the 'Geological Institute of Roumania' claim is before, what is it now 4 years - have they produced any actual evidence yet? If not why not?
Now tell us about this museum only you have seen - where is it Parta? Why do you think Central Europe is the 'East' and that nobody can go there, please explain
Originally posted by Parta
what insults.
it seems i cannot present current orthodox information to you that you had no idea existed. whats your game?
thought you were into new discoveries. you called me muddled. i think you started it.
i thought thats where i sent you. sorry. not trying to hide anything.
well actually there are 2. salt water and freshwater. its a dictionary. either works but you can say either.
did i not link to a map of the sea in middle europe earlier? i guess you have to see its relation to the retreating glaciers etc. if you crossed okeanos you could sail right out into the atlantic or back into the med by 2 ways. its exactly correct as plato wrote it.
To his twin brother, who was born after him, and obtained as
his lot the extremity of the island towards the Pillars of Heracles,
facing the country which is now called the region of Gades in that
part of the world
the pillares of hercules were not at gibraltar.
i do not believe i have shown atlantis in here. show me where i did.
what magical museum.
noone westerner [but me] had ever been to a museum to see all the artifacts. the east has never been with the west hans.
the new york times says scientists didn't know anything about central europe. did you know? its important because plato says atlantis was in the center of europe on the freshwater sea that was there.
But in primitive times the hill of the Acropolis extended
to the Eridanus and Ilissus, and included the Pnyx on one side, and
the Lycabettus as a boundary on the opposite side to the Pnyx, and was
all well covered with soil, and level at the top, except in one or two
places. Outside the Acropolis and under the sides of the hill there
dwelt artisans, and such of the husbandmen as were tilling the
ground near; the warrior class dwelt by themselves around the
temples of Athene and Hephaestus at the summit, which moreover they
had enclosed with a single fence like the garden of a single house
and the largest of the harbours were full of vessels and merchants coming from all parts
Originally posted by micpsi
reply to post by VelvetSplash
How about listening to what Plato actually said? He located Atlantis to the west of the Pillars of Hercules (Straits of Gibralta), that is, in the Atlantic Ocean - NOT hundreds of miles east off the coast of Greece!
It simply won't cut it to cherry-pick the evidence to suit your beliefs and ignore what Plato actually said about the civilisation of Atlantis. Just because some powerful volcano erupted in the past and created a tsunami is not enough to be the origin of Plato's story. You just cannot choose what you want to believe about Plato's account and dismiss the rest because it does not fit whatt we BELIEVE is history. Why would he have located the event so far away in some imaginary place? The Minoan eruption is just one of the dozens of hypothetical sources for the Atlantis myth proposed by academics wishing to rid themselves of an akward, historical enigma. None of them stand up because they are not located where Plato said the disaster occurred. Now, if you want to argue that he invented the location, just as he did the rest of the details about Atlantis, then you are ignoring the fact that this "myth" was not fabricated by him but existed long before he referred to it in his books.
Originally posted by Harte
In fact, there exists no "myth of Atlantis" prior to what Plato wrote. None whatsoever.
The correlation with Thera could be due to Plato using what he knew about Thera in his tale. However, there's no evidence that Plato - or any other Greek from Plato's time - knew anything at all about the eruption of Thera.
You are quite right about the cherry-picking.
Thus, Plato actually did fabricate the story. And why not? He wasn't, after all, an historian and his dialogues were not written for the sake of preserving any history.
harte
Originally posted by Parta
the text says This power came forth out of the pelagos of atlas. the dictionary says i can say This power came forth out of the the flooded plain of atlas.
Originally posted by Harte
I'd like to see this translation from someone other than yourself.
I've found where pelagos can also mean "trial," as in an arduous task/event (IOW, not the "judicial" sense of trial.)
I've yet to see your useage anywhere.
Not saying it isn't so, but in Plato's time, "pelagos" not only meant sea, it meant the deep sea.
Harte
Originally posted by thedoctorswife
Originally posted by ForAllMyDeadHomies
Aww, I live in the states. This is a topic that heavily interests me, could you possibly record it?edit on 28-1-2012 by ForAllMyDeadHomies because: (no reason given)
I imagine it'l be youtubed eventually, its rather good, and its being presented by "shock horror " a woman scientist.
Originally posted by Parta
yeah i sent you to perseus last time and you said tufts was wrong i believe.
pelagos as a flooded lake is from herodotus as per the listing at perseus
Originally posted by Harte
Originally posted by Parta
yeah i sent you to perseus last time and you said tufts was wrong i believe.
pelagos as a flooded lake is from herodotus as per the listing at perseus
As Hans pointed out, that translation doesn't appear on the perseus page you linked so, no.
So far, all we have is "trial" and "deep sea."
Harte
Originally posted by margaretr
I began to watch this when it was originally screened a while ago.
As soon as the focus was centred on the Mediterranean I switched off.
This Med version is the usual hype dished up by people who cannot comprehend the concept that a pole reversal rearranges continental land masses.
Originally posted by Parta
reply to post by Hanslune
so where did i put up all pictures of atlantis? you said i did again and again. thats dishonest.
you said pelagos didn't mean flooded plain. you were wrong.
you didn't know a sea filled the middle danube until i told you. you are ill informed.
you didn't know about iarcuri the biggest city in the ancient world until i told you and you're the great expert.
you didn't know the epigravettians did what plato said atlanteans did. what should the map look like that proves it?
noone knew about black topped pottery.
what is your input? i don't see any information just little nasty quips
gades is where the pen of geryon is. geryon is poseidons grandson. the vara i showed you is the pen of geryon.
Originally posted by Parta
hans found it. he said i was trying to hide it. so somehow i'm the villain for hiding the dictionary. it says flooded plain.
Originally posted by Hanslune
Oh you've never flogged this theory before Parta, lol are you actually saying that?
Originally posted by Hanslune
You said it meant flooded plain - but hid that the other more common meaning that it is sea, you were wrong - so it would seem we were both wrong
Originally posted by Hanslune
Of course I knew about that you might try not making stuff up
Originally posted by Hanslune
Only you have childishly given me the title of 'great expert', I'm not. And yes I knew about Iarcuri from the moment it was reported in the archaeological feeds along with hundreds of other sites. You really need to do something about your attitude...lol but then that is all you do have so I understand
Originally posted by Hanslune
They didn't so why or how could I know that? You do see how this discussion has turned from a debate about Atlantis into a long attack against me? This is what you normally do, very tiresome
Originally posted by Hanslune
Except all the archaeologists who dug it up and published information on it that you seemed to have read,
Originally posted by Hanslune
Just returning what you started, friend.
Originally posted by Hanslune
Really! and there I thought it was in Spain
So what about answering all my other questions? Where is the magic museum? Why cannot a site that was an island 500 x 350 kilometers be found in central Europe?
Where are all the trade goods?