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The European dictatorship slowly rises... will you oppose?

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posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by TheUnusualSuspect

Originally posted by mcdgray129

Originally posted by TheUnusualSuspect
lol The Irish aren't neutral if thousands of them are getting involved.

Oh no, here we go....cue the usual British bashing.....



Thats the best comeback you can come up with??.
And no i wouldn't lower myself to you're form of Irish bashing (that you are trying to do but failing miserably),
As i have alot of respect for the British people. as i do of people of any nation.
And The Republic of Ireland's Government Remained neutral, but allowed its people to Join the British Army if they so wanted something that over 30K did.
So how does that go back to you're first point of Ireland supporting Nazis???.



Comeback? Irish bashing? lol what are you talking about?

I'm not "trying" anything.

So then you joined this discussion to add nothing to it other then your own disillusion that Ireland was joined with the Nazi's in WW2, something you got from actively seeking out a no name website to try prove it. And when called out on that topic and showing how you where wrong with facts, try to back peddle you're way out of it by not answering any of the questions that was put to you. That clearly shows that your agenda to began with was just to try an bash ireland by giving out false info, and to try an discredit my post. Both you failed on btw...




posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 04:20 PM
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Originally posted by BobAthome
reply to post by mcdgray129
 


IRELAND,,belongs TOO ONE HIGH KING period. Always has always will.

ME. ( ididnt mean me,, me ,,i meant end of story,, then ,, Me. not the other ME. lol )

And it is not British/French/or Spanish / or anyother,, but IRISH,
who are the IRISH,,
if u have too ask,, lol

edit on 28-1-2012 by BobAthome because: (no reason given)


ok,, sorry Ma,, my mums French,, ok,, maybe French ,, only some French,, ,,had too,,
ya i know,, ,,

edit on 28-1-2012 by BobAthome because: (no reason given)


I know what you mean
star for you.



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 04:23 PM
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Originally posted by mcdgray129

Originally posted by flice


S&F OP .
I agree with you 100%, i hated when i watched Ireland just be handed over and become apart of this European Nation. The people who fought, bleed and died to free Ireland in the first place would be turning in their graves right now.


There are a lot that feel the same way.. I know a few families (including some of my own) that have moved to the US after fighting there for years only to be disgusted by the way their governments turned out. In their eyes the leaders of Ireland are traitors to their people, objects of the European progressive regime that is determined to strip all free nations of their sovereignty.

The United States is a perfect example of what comes from a "Union". First you're a Union of free Nations with your own constitutions and cultures. Then slowly the Federalist system gradually takes more and more responsibility away from the Free States within the Union (in the USA it started with the unified currency, just like the EU). Eventually there was opposition and rebellion .. the Federalist system decimated the opposition in a horrifically bloody war, restructured the governments to focus on Federal power and over the next 150 years consolidated what would have once been thought of as impossible, a huge amount of power. Now states are practically powerless to the Feds, and when the States were subdued the attention moved towards the individual, where we are today .. the Federal government wages it's war of fear and terror on it's own populace to force through draconian laws to secure it's place as an absolute power.

Orwell said it best:


“The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness; only power, pure power. And how does one man assert his power over another, Winston?” Winston thought. “By making him suffer,” he said. “Exactly,” said O’Brien, “This is what you accepted when you set yourself up against the Party.”



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 04:24 PM
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being in the USA we have our own dictatorship to oppose, but our thoughts are with you all neighbors.



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 04:24 PM
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Not at all. I was merely pointing out the FACT that Ireland wasn't totally neutral in WW2. Look at the NAZI collaborators memorial, the demonizing of Irish citizens who were allowed to join the British fight, etc. lol

You are the one who has the agenda...you're clearly looking for an argument. I made my original point because I found it funny YOU(not the Irish as a whole, like YOU are trying to make out) were misleading with your Irish neutrality comment, by not pointing out the fact that people did join up...THOUSANDS of them.

"no name website" Yes, because I'm a member of that website...of course I am lol. It was the first thing I came across with my Google search.



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 04:34 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck

Originally posted by mcdgray129

Originally posted by flice


S&F OP .
I agree with you 100%, i hated when i watched Ireland just be handed over and become apart of this European Nation. The people who fought, bleed and died to free Ireland in the first place would be turning in their graves right now.


There are a lot that feel the same way.. I know a few families (including some of my own) that have moved to the US after fighting there for years only to be disgusted by the way their governments turned out. In their eyes the leaders of Ireland are traitors to their people, objects of the European progressive regime that is determined to strip all free nations of their sovereignty.

The United States is a perfect example of what comes from a "Union". First you're a Union of free Nations with your own constitutions and cultures. Then slowly the Federalist system gradually takes more and more responsibility away from the Free States within the Union (in the USA it started with the unified currency, just like the EU). Eventually there was opposition and rebellion .. the Federalist system decimated the opposition in a horrifically bloody war, restructured the governments to focus on Federal power and over the next 150 years consolidated what would have once been thought of as impossible, a huge amount of power. Now states are practically powerless to the Feds, and when the States were subdued the attention moved towards the individual, where we are today .. the Federal government wages it's war of fear and terror on it's own populace to force through draconian laws to secure it's place as an absolute power.

Orwell said it best:


“The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness; only power, pure power. And how does one man assert his power over another, Winston?” Winston thought. “By making him suffer,” he said. “Exactly,” said O’Brien, “This is what you accepted when you set yourself up against the Party.”

This is a great post Star for you
.
And imo the irish leaders are traitors to both their country and to its people. As so many fought and died to make Ireland a free nation. And then for them just to hand it away like they did makes me sick.
As im sure alot of people from other country's also feel about what has been done to their home country's.



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 04:43 PM
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This is probably why the "troubles" were started in the first place, and the Irish independence struggle happened. Instigated by the El-ite( You make the majority of the Irish break away, letting them believe they're free, then a few years later, bit by bit, the EU is created. Then they hand away their freedom? lol Makes no sense at all.

This what the ruling El-ite will do with the UK. Seeing as the UK is one of the most important states in the EU, doesn't have the currency, and is rocking the boat at times - what better way to resolve the problem than destroy it? I mean, if the majority of Scotland votes to break The United kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland apart, the ruling party then joins another union? lol better the devil you know.

Divide and conquer! it's as simple as that.



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 04:48 PM
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"Divide and conquer! it's as simple as that. "

reply to post by TheUnusualSuspect
 


Actually "A house divided cannot stand " and i bielieve the good lord was refering too, his own house ,,
when challenged by ,,well u know the rest,,

United Ireland, Behind a Strong Britian,and Scotland,,,geezz who do u think is gonna pay for it? lol,,
Europe Will not Break Them,, and neither did Charlemaine,, soooooooo,,

United.

Me.
edit on 28-1-2012 by BobAthome because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 05:03 PM
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Originally posted by TheUnusualSuspect
Not at all. I was merely pointing out the FACT that Ireland wasn't totally neutral in WW2. Look at the NAZI collaborators memorial, the demonizing of Irish citizens who were allowed to join the British fight, etc. lol

You are the one who has the agenda...you're clearly looking for an argument. I made my original point because I found it funny YOU(not the Irish as a whole, like YOU are trying to make out) were misleading with your Irish neutrality comment, by not pointing out the fact that people did join up...THOUSANDS of them.

"no name website" Yes, because I'm a member of that website...of course I am lol. It was the first thing I came across with my Google search.


I have no Agenda, im not the one who started bringing up that Ireland was involved with the Nazi's, i was sticking to the topic at hand that had nothing to do with that.
Clearly your the one that wanted an argument as You came and said Ireland was involved with the Nazi's, since when did the IRA become the whole of Ireland???.
And i was also the one to point out that The Irish people all 30+ thousand of them, went and joined with the British army, (The Government still remained neutral). So how does that show Ireland was joined with the Nazi's??. Just cos a few IRA people (that wanted the Nazi's to invade Ireland) thought they would give them back the north and make the IRA the leaders of Ireland you come to the conclusion that Ireland was joined with the Nazis. I think your the one that was being misleading here not the other way around.



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 05:07 PM
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Originally posted by TheUnusualSuspect
This is probably why the "troubles" were started in the first place, and the Irish independence struggle happened. Instigated by the El-ite( You make the majority of the Irish break away, letting them believe they're free, then a few years later, bit by bit, the EU is created. Then they hand away their freedom? lol Makes no sense at all.

This what the ruling El-ite will do with the UK. Seeing as the UK is one of the most important states in the EU, doesn't have the currency, and is rocking the boat at times - what better way to resolve the problem than destroy it? I mean, if the majority of Scotland votes to break The United kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland apart, the ruling party then joins another union? lol better the devil you know.

Divide and conquer! it's as simple as that.


This is your best post so far in this topic so star for you
.
edit on 28-1-2012 by mcdgray129 because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-1-2012 by mcdgray129 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 05:07 PM
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reply to post by TheUnusualSuspect
 


It's not nearly as simple as that. Ireland was a special case, as all cases especially in Europe are unique. Ireland gaining it's independence was not a spontaneous move elected by the "elite" it was a progression of resistance over the course of hundreds of years; literally becoming part of the culture. When independence is attained the economy of Ireland was very relaxed.. there was no accumulated wealth or over drastic prosperity. Ironically during Ireland "poor" days it had one of the worlds highest levels of citizen happiness. But for young people the country really had nothing to offer.

Along comes the European Union and leaders began promising untold riches will flow into the country if they join the economic zone. They were not told it would mean sacrificing culture, history and dignity. They accepted such an offer because the appeal of the excess that has forever been denied the island was an alluring prospect, a greedy conclusion for sure. With the Euro Centrist policies dominating the islands government and the massive amount of wealth that moved into the country in such a short amount of time, it was the most prosperous time in Ireland's history.

Then it disappeared over night leaving the island floundering in chains of servitude.

Now I think people are starting to see what's happened. They lost the rights to their own economy.. even their tax rates are set to be subjugated by the powers of the EU government. They lost their rights to international treaty, as the EU preforms them on their behalf .. immigration and domestic industrial regulation is all dominated by EU policy .. even their own government spending. And now a new outside force steps in with even more demands, the IMF. They gave Ireland the money to bailout it's excess while poverty skyrockets; the government told in demands they must cut services to it's own people to pay foreign obligations.

It's not something the Irish government did on purpose .. they themselves lost enormous amounts of power.. but through their ignorance, greed, stupidity and blinded by their socialistic policies and euro-centrist mandates they provided a perfect storm of occurrences that led to a perfect opportunity for the EU to make a power grab. This is happening all over Europe, and the EU is making good light out of a bad situation. Now the EU has the power to Monetize meaning a continent wide tax, without representation, through inflation. All for the sake of power.

And there is no peacefully going back .. you cannot leave the European Union once you join.. there is no provision for leaving, there is no outlined right to sovereignty or right to leave. Oppose the EU and they will crash your country and install a banker to head your government. Go along with the EU and the bankers rule from the shadows .. either way, you are not free. Poor Ireland went from rags to riches back to finding that more property is owned by foreigners or vacant than than owned by Irish nationals.. decent paying jobs are lost and low paying jobs handed to immigrants, their government in chains by the IMF who dictates their domestic policy. And there is no escape. No going back. The coming decades will make the British occupation look like a walk in the park.



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 05:13 PM
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"British occupation look like a walk in the park. ",,God forbide,, not twice,, but once only,,

It is Ironic in these times, That If Ireland, were too secede along with Scotland,,
it would Take a Great Burden off the Crowns Shoulders,, so too speak,,
something might be worked out for a High King of Ireland,, Free and True From ALL Encumbriences,
to God
Crown and
Man,
debt free,,in other words,,
and upon such an endevour wish too release a new Gold back coin, called the ,,etc,,,

But everyone one knows the British Crown never Negotiates,, unless a Contract was up,,

Me.
edit on 28-1-2012 by BobAthome because: (no reason given)


They live and die by thier Contracts,,olddddd contracts.

Seek.
edit on 28-1-2012 by BobAthome because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-1-2012 by BobAthome because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 05:14 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by TheUnusualSuspect
 


It's not nearly as simple as that. Ireland was a special case, as all cases especially in Europe are unique. Ireland gaining it's independence was not a spontaneous move elected by the "elite" it was a progression of resistance over the course of hundreds of years; literally becoming part of the culture. When independence is attained the economy of Ireland was very relaxed.. there was no accumulated wealth or over drastic prosperity. Ironically during Ireland "poor" days it had one of the worlds highest levels of citizen happiness. But for young people the country really had nothing to offer.

Along comes the European Union and leaders began promising untold riches will flow into the country if they join the economic zone. They were not told it would mean sacrificing culture, history and dignity. They accepted such an offer because the appeal of the excess that has forever been denied the island was an alluring prospect, a greedy conclusion for sure. With the Euro Centrist policies dominating the islands government and the massive amount of wealth that moved into the country in such a short amount of time, it was the most prosperous time in Ireland's history.

Then it disappeared over night leaving the island floundering in chains of servitude.

Now I think people are starting to see what's happened. They lost the rights to their own economy.. even their tax rates are set to be subjugated by the powers of the EU government. They lost their rights to international treaty, as the EU preforms them on their behalf .. immigration and domestic industrial regulation is all dominated by EU policy .. even their own government spending. And now a new outside force steps in with even more demands, the IMF. They gave Ireland the money to bailout it's excess while poverty skyrockets; the government told in demands they must cut services to it's own people to pay foreign obligations.

It's not something the Irish government did on purpose .. they themselves lost enormous amounts of power.. but through their ignorance, greed, stupidity and blinded by their socialistic policies and euro-centrist mandates they provided a perfect storm of occurrences that led to a perfect opportunity for the EU to make a power grab. This is happening all over Europe, and the EU is making good light out of a bad situation. Now the EU has the power to Monetize meaning a continent wide tax, without representation, through inflation. All for the sake of power.

And there is no peacefully going back .. you cannot leave the European Union once you join.. there is no provision for leaving, there is no outlined right to sovereignty or right to leave. Oppose the EU and they will crash your country and install a banker to head your government. Go along with the EU and the bankers rule from the shadows .. either way, you are not free. Poor Ireland went from rags to riches back to finding that more property is owned by foreigners or vacant than than owned by Irish nationals.. decent paying jobs are lost and low paying jobs handed to immigrants, their government in chains by the IMF who dictates their domestic policy. And there is no escape. No going back. The coming decades will make the British occupation look like a walk in the park.


Now this is one great post, and i agree with every word you said. A star for you, and if i could give you more i would
.



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 06:19 PM
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reply to post by mcdgray129
 


I do not think that the concept of a great European nation is wrong (or a global government for that matter), the issue I have is how it has evolved and how it is governed. That I see as the issue that we should be concerned with...

Petty nationalistic concepts should have long been eroded, people should unite not work as hard as most of Europe has done for the last 1500+ years, from little kingdoms to religious divides...

Humans have evolved from tribal societies the only way forward that can guarantee our survival in the reality of numbers and technological level we have is only in fostering communal ideals.

If we do not consolidate we are left to fight over for every inch of resources, continue to be culturally colonized by the country with the strongest media and conform to homogenization.

I like diversity and diversity can only continue to exist if protected by common agreement and understanding.if not it would only serve to keep us all apart and we cannot afford to pay that price, not any longer...



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 08:14 PM
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reply to post by Panic2k11
 




If we do not consolidate we are left to fight over for every inch of resources


What the hell do you think will happen when we have a "global government"? Everyone will be happy, free, well fed and in good health? !@$! no .. we will be oppressed into poverty for the "sake of the common good" a Stalinist regime of forced labor to dole out resources to other regions of the World. The government may decide one day that resource production is more important than the lacking European region, and withhold food starving the population to give aid in Africa for that resource. Or maybe take a little from the Americas to redirect to Asia. And do you suppose cultural identity simply vanishes?

Again America is a perfect example: even after several generations of being blended into the American culture people still hold on to the identities of their ancestors. Italians, Koreans, Irish, Mexican, Scandinavian.. people will NEVER give up who they are, where they come from .. uniting the World will breed a massive oppressive regime that will constantly be at war with its self, leading to strife, starvation, warfare and oppression. We are a communal species, we self identify and group each other and ourselves into categories at all times. And I promise you this: I and those like me would never willingly live in such a consolidated World. I would sooner see the World burned to ashes before I see an international entity claim my sovereignty and self identification.



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 09:12 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


I'm all for a global government, just not on the terms it is being created. I also think it is easier to topple a government like China than one like the one of the USA and most Western Countries.

I was extremely against the liberal policies in the USA over gun control, but since the realization that most governments do not work in the best interests of the general population I have changed my mind, the costs of permitting such rights is the only way citizens can defend their freedoms. Even so a centralized and clearly defined governance/cancer like the one in China would be easier to expunge or even peacefully transform than a metastasized cancer like the one governing the USA (and most of the Anglosaxon nations today and spreading fast to the rest of the Western world)...



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 09:18 PM
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The European dictatorship slowly rises... will you oppose?


Where you oppose is a more appropriate question. With so many different ideas and values of 'the world we want to live in' going around there are many issues and much disagreement going on.

If the Euro gets your beef then get into macroeconomics and help shine the light on the specific problems or else start your own economy. Otherwise you just sound like a sulking kid trying to push back the tide. While protests and strikes can build some attention, the EU is not only considering individual forces, but international ones as well.

If the dictatorship structure is your main problem, then what kind of structure will improve the decision making process? Democracy has been under attack and subversion for a very long time. There is a weakness against the desire for power and the time it can take to inform and build a public consensus, take the complexity behind climate change as one of many examples. It is up to the EU board to change the governance structure, so convince them to do anything about this.

edit on 28-1-2012 by kwakakev because: spelling 'convince'



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 09:19 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


That is only one possible outcome, due to the complexity of the problem that outcome you envision can't be peacefully constructed, people rightly so do not want homogenization. You are also forgetting that much resources are wasted in keeping people apart, imagine a world with less military spending, and armament production, less boarder controls, less bureaucracy (since there will be redundancy to be removed) and in general less conflict and you will get a bright future.

For instance what was spent in Iraq would already have permitted the colonization of the Moon and Mars, we would already be mining the asteroid belt, dealing with climate changes and fixing earth's ecosystem.



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 09:33 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by Panic2k11
 




If we do not consolidate we are left to fight over for every inch of resources


What the hell do you think will happen when we have a "global government"? Everyone will be happy, free, well fed and in good health? !@$! no .. we will be oppressed into poverty for the "sake of the common good" a Stalinist regime of forced labor to dole out resources to other regions of the World. The government may decide one day that resource production is more important than the lacking European region, and withhold food starving the population to give aid in Africa for that resource. Or maybe take a little from the Americas to redirect to Asia. And do you suppose cultural identity simply vanishes?

Again America is a perfect example: even after several generations of being blended into the American culture people still hold on to the identities of their ancestors. Italians, Koreans, Irish, Mexican, Scandinavian.. people will NEVER give up who they are, where they come from .. uniting the World will breed a massive oppressive regime that will constantly be at war with its self, leading to strife, starvation, warfare and oppression. We are a communal species, we self identify and group each other and ourselves into categories at all times. And I promise you this: I and those like me would never willingly live in such a consolidated World. I would sooner see the World burned to ashes before I see an international entity claim my sovereignty and self identification.

It's easy to tell Irish blood runs in you
. i also agree, for i will never give up my freedom
. Another star for you
.



posted on Jan, 29 2012 @ 12:53 AM
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reply to post by flice
 

So what is it exactly that you think we should do OP, revolt against the Government?


This has all been planned for a helluva lot longer than 70 years btw, and when WWI didn't deliver the desired results things really began to move forward in deadly earnest, and so the stage was set for the perpetual conflict in the ME.

Shouldn't we be looking for the people that are REALLY responsible for the world the way it is today OP and not their SUBORDINATES.

Maybe some name dropping to get the ball rolling ROTHSCHILD



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