Obama : states should require kids to stay in school until 18 or graduation

Obama: States should require kids stay in school until 18 or graduation

President Obama said in his 2012 State of the Union address that he wants states to change their laws to require that all students be required to stay in high school until they graduate or turn 18 years old.

The age at which students can legally leave school varies in the states, though most have set the minimum drop-out age at 16 or 17.

There are already about 15 states, plus the District of Columbia, that have set their dropout age at 18. They include Florida and Virginia. Maryland allows students to drop out at 16.

“We also know that when students aren’t allowed to walk away from their education, more of them walk the stage to get their diploma,” he said in the State of the Union. “So tonight, I call on every State to require that all students stay in high school until they graduate or turn eighteen.”

In most countries, the age that students are allowed to leave school is the same as their minimum age for full-time employment.

Like that has ANY CHANCES of passing, not to mention EVEN IF IT DID... won't fix anything.

More years of crappy education doesn't fix the crappy education.

There's really very little difference between a diploma and a GED in terms of employment, so who cares? I really don't understand the logic. Forcing these kids to stay in school only makes them bored, rebellious, and puts undo strain on the kids who want to be there and the teachers that have to put up with them.

I would have dropped out of high school if I would have known then what I know now. Mr. T made me think i'd be a fool if I dropped out. I think school is not really needed especially these days with all the information at your fingertips. 22 month old can work an I pad amazingly. This generation is gonna be really interesting. No need to force them to stay in school Obama.

reply to post by Vitchilo


This is a state issue. The federal government should never pass a federal law regarding education IMO.

Of course Obama and his handlers would like this. This would be 18 years of federally mandated indoctrination.

reply to post by AnIntellectualRedneck


Absolutely.

The schools should also kick the kids out that are habitually disruptive. Get rid of the alternative schools as well. I remember in my day if the kids did not follow the rules, there were actually consequences of their actions.

I don't know what will/would be a good fix..however, I think maybe if they implemented some sort of vocational training as a substitute. Like if students weren't making the min. grade to proceed they could make them opt for mandatory vocation or min military service..I mean we have to find a way to service the public with people that can actually DO something instead of leaving school and ending up on the street/drugs/drink/crime/welfare.

We can't just use the excuse that timmy is just dumb and won't amount to anything..we have to make timmy DO something productive or he would then forfeit any further help from taxpayers.

reply to post by Vitchilo

Dear Vitchilo,

Always a pleasant surprise to run into you, and a Vitchilo thread is something special.

I agree with you that

More years of crappy education doesn't fix the crappy education.

It does allow more years for indoctrination, government control, and increased federal monies taken for "education."

You're more optimistic than I am, though.

Like that has ANY CHANCES of passing, not to mention EVEN IF IT DID... won't fix anything.

Why do you think Obama has to get a law passed to put this into effect? He doesn't have to go to Congress at all. I suspect that he will just go to his Secretary of Education and say "In your next batch of regulations, put in that any state that doesn't comply with my idea gets no education funding."

This is why Obama scares me. That, and the idea that the federal government is the place that should have all the money and all the control.

Vitchilo, another thread up to your high standards. Don't know what we peons would do without you.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by Vitchilo


Here in NY kids have to be in school. When I was a kid in the 80s I had friends from broken homes who never went to school, and I was soooo jealous ! Recently I was a teachers assistant for a school that houses kids who are emotional disturb, basically the bad kids who got in trouble a lot or skipped school. Now a days NY does not mess around and will find these kids who don't go to school and force them to go, even if it means sending to them to very expensive "private" schools on the NY tax payers dimes. So this Obama thang doesn't change anything here in NY.

Oh yeah I forgot to mention, in NY you can stay in the school system till your 21! The school I worked for housed middle school and high school aged kids, and we had a few 20 and 21 year olds! Here this adult can buy beer but must be treated as any teenager at the school because they can't seem to graduate (sometimes they just wanna stay in the system cuz there's no where else to go)

Like that has ANY CHANCES of passing, not to mention EVEN IF IT DID... won't fix anything.

More years of crappy education doesn't fix the crappy education.

Actually it has a very good chance of passage since it won't cost the Federal govt anything. Moreover I think it an excellent idea. Dropping out of school especially for teenage males usually marks the beginning of a life of serious disappointment and sometimes criminality.

I also dispute the notion that the education is itself crappy. One can have the best teachers and resources in the world but education only happens when the student is motivated. To help the student's motivation each school district should have dropout work battalions. In this scenario the student can drop out but they automatically drop into the hard labor battalion where they do hard unskilled physical labor for the school district until they either opt to return to an academic setting or reach eighteen.

reply to post by lunatux


The fed has no place in education. Do you want bureaucrats in DC directing the curriculum for your children? If you don't like it you can't move away because it will be the same in every state.

The federal government has orchestrated the indoctrination of children from an early age to create a dependent class, and it's working well.

reply to post by Vitchilo


Agreed.

I didn't watch the State of the Union address this year, but based on the article you've linked I got the impression President Obama was touting a rhetorical panacea.

I've formed the opinion that State of the Union addresses ought not culminate in summaries, but transparent, line-item costs & outcomes. In this case Congress and the President would take a week off from business as usual & meaningfully inform the public about the country's "state of the union" rather than engage in formal grandstanding. Besides that the ivory towers in the District of Columbia would do better to impose restrictions on themselves rather than impose uniform values by virtue of legislative stone tablets. And I'm not suggesting that education is not important; nonetheless, a handful of politicians and bureaucrats in D.C. are neither intellectually nor objectively equipped to make this sort of decision for an entire set of unique states. Their first error was ever believing they could.

This is ridiculous.

The -PRIVATE- school I went to in South Carolina was an absolute JOKE. I learned nothing what-so-ever. I went to the principal's office one day in the middle of the school day and told him that, too. I made an excellent case, showed evidence proving I wasn't learning anything much less anything I needed to know, and told him I was dropping out.

He didn't have much to say. A month later I got my GED and was attending College that fall. I took 2 remedial math classes to make up for their sorry education and that was it. I made much better grades in College than I ever did in high school. I dropped out at age 16 and it has had absolutely no negative effect on my life or career.

If they would pay the teacher's a decent salary for what they do and offer incentives for lowered drop-out rates, then kids might actually get the education they deserve and -want- to go to school. I also believe no child regardless of age should be in school for 8 hours a day and then have hours of homework at night while they might be expected to get a job and earn a certain amount to help with their own family.

Obama lives in a fantasy world.

Obama : states should require kids to stay in school until 18 or graduation

Not a bad idea but it should be left to the states to decide. What we do NOT need is more ham-handed federal interventionism in what is by law, a state affair.

I bet the logic is that there aren't any jobs for these people, so they want to keep them in school.

Diploma != Education
as
Knowledge != Wisdom
as
Workers != Productivity
as
Growth != Health
as
Observation != Comprehension
as
Recitation != Expression
as
Makeup != Beauty
as
Appearance != Substance
...
ETC.

reply to post by Vitchilo


Where in the Constitution of the United States does it say that States have Ceded the Power to the Federal Goverment to impose Rules and Regulations on the Educational System in America ? It does Not say that Anywhere , therefore the Federal Goverment is Breaking the Law by trying to impose such Rules and Regulations without Any Legal Authority to do so .

Instead of requiring by law students stay in school until 18, why not try to address the factors that contribute to students dropping out? Forcing students to stay in school while ignoring the causes for them to dropout doesn't make a lot of sense.

reply to post by Turq1

Instead of requiring by law students stay in school until 18, why not try to address the factors that contribute to students dropping out?

What do you think those factors are? My own guess, and that's all it is, is that students go from grade to grade without learning the material, getting further and further behind. When it's time for high school, they see it's hopeless and walk away from the stress.

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by Turq1

 

Instead of requiring by law students stay in school until 18, why not try to address the factors that contribute to students dropping out?

What do you think those factors are? My own guess, and that's all it is, is that students go from grade to grade without learning the material, getting further and further behind. When it's time for high school, they see it's hopeless and walk away from the stress.

If they're still in school at 18, they've either started late, or failed at least one grade. I'm assuming the grade system is the same as up here, kindergarden at age 5, grade 12 at 17?

I dropped out myself at 16, and went straight to work. Then went to college later, on a GED.
Some kids just aren't good at staying in school, I appreciated it more when I went back as an adult.


I heard somewhere that they're trying to set in a law (in the USA) making parents liable if their kids are caught drinking underage. That's insane if the drinking age is still 21. ( It's 19 up here, at least one province it's 18)

It seems like they're trying to raise the age when the kids can go and live out on their own. It starts by making them stay in school longer.....

reply to post by snowspirit

Dear snowspirit,

Pleased to see you again, especially since you're making me rethink math problems. Here's how my thinking goes: Kindergarten = Age 5, 1st Grade = Age 6. There are 12 grades, so 12 years. Twelve years and starting at age 6 gives 18? I'm willing to listen to 17, but I don't see it right now.

Also I agree with you on your idea that the goal seems to be keeping kids from freedom as long as possible. The movement towards pre-kindergarten is firmly established in the US, daycare is becoming increasingly regulated, year-long school is being tried in a couple of areas and is gaining in popularity.

In many ways the government seems to be saying "You are not capable of taking care of yourself, so we will have a government program to take care of more and more of your life. You will not be trained to be independent, so you will never be independent."

Anyway, if you want to hear more of my conspiratorial ramblings, just give me a buzz.

With respect,
Charles1952