God's Judgment on homosexuality.

Originally posted by gabby2011
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

Really where in the bible are YOU INSTRUCTED TO DO ANYTHING BUT LOVE? I would really like you to show me this.

warning people of how sin will effect their lives is LOVE !!!

If your child goes and knocks over a younger kid off his bike and takes it.. are you going to sit there.. and just watch..because you love him?

NO !!!.. You are going to in no uncertain terms tell him that is very wrong.. tell him to say sorry to the other child, and give the bike back, and explain to him, why and how that is very offensive....because you LOVE your child..and don't want him to hurt others.

edit on 29-1-2012 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)

you are right telling people what the bible says is sin is good.

But you are not to tell the sinner or your child that they will go to hell if they don't change. this is judgemnet.

reply to post by sacgamer25

God says that I should turn the other cheek when I face persecution and hate. He also says that he loves, desiplens and protects his children from evil. Being made in his image I imagine I have the same right, and responsiblity to my chilldren. This was not a good argument against what I said.

Yes it was... and you will be tested soon on what you say in words.

Nearly all of His apostles besides John died a horrible death .. because of evil..

Many many of His saints fought long and hard battles with evil.. if He allows that to happen.. why do you think you or your loved ones will be spared any torture or protected from evil.?

Originally posted by gabby2011
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

God says that I should turn the other cheek when I face persecution and hate. He also says that he loves, desiplens and protects his children from evil. Being made in his image I imagine I have the same right, and responsiblity to my chilldren. This was not a good argument against what I said.

Yes it was... and you will be tested soon on what you say in words.

Nearly all of His apostles besides John died a horrible death .. because of evil..

Many many of His saints fought long and hard battles with evil.. if He allows that to happen.. why do you think you or your loved ones will be spared any torture or protected from evil.?

Actually I expect to be persecuted. And if my loved are of the age that they can also accept persecution than I will allow them to follow and be persecuted. There is no persecution in this life that God will allow his children that they cannot stand up to. It is the promise of eternal life that will allow his children to stand up to that which otherwise would make them crumble.

I would like to clarify what you call a horrible death. They realized that through their death, their faith was justified and their death is what gave power to the living. Just as Christ’s death gave power to all, there death gave power to few. The ability to stand up to persecution is the true measure of one’s faith. If one does not face persecution their faith has not been made complete.

reply to post by gabby2011


If an apostle of Jesus Christ himself gets that kind of treatment, what makes you think you or any other christian will get off scot-free?

It's better to be yourself and a good person than to slave to an imaginary master, if the outcome is the same!

I have a great deal of respect for those of faith - in many ways I feel faith in what one knows cannot be proven is noble and quite mystical. I think they are lucky.

But the hate really has got to stop from the religious side because in case they haven't noticed, it hasn't got them anywhere and from what I read and hear is completely against what Jesus taught.

reply to post by sacgamer25

But you are not to tell the sinner or your child that they will go to hell if they don't change. this is judgemnet.

Maybe it is honesty out of love?

I remember reading once about someone who had been shown a vision of hell..

This person commented on how this young girl was cursing her parents in hell for not warning her about the bad sexually perverted books she read.. and other things she was into...and not telling her that hell existed.

I'm not saying you tell your children every time you see them that if they don't change they are going to hell.. but I think consistent sincere pray to Jesus, will help turn their conscience ..and a gentle warning about those who will not acknowledge Gods commandments and what happens to them is better than them saying later that you didn't care enough to tell them the truth.

reply to post by sacgamer25

I would like to clarify what you call a horrible death. They realized that through their death, their faith was justified and their death is what gave power to the living. Just as Christ’s death gave power to all, there death gave power to few. The ability to stand up to persecution is the true measure of one’s faith. If one does not face persecution their faith has not been made complete.

ok.. So God allows His followers to be persecuted by evil for a true measure of faith..yet He protects them from all evil?

make up your mind..is it one or the other?

How about the Christian doctor.. who's home was broken into by two criminals..and his daughters were tied up as well as him, and his wife was made to go withdraw money from their account, while they were all tied up at home. The daughters were raped.. and the mother was tied up, and the house set on fire. The father managed to escape...but last time I saw him on Oprah.. he was a mess, and had to be talked out of suicide by his sister.

If you really say we should not judge.. those two men should be allowed to not face any type of prosecution.. and we should all love them.. and "turn the other cheek"..especially the father.

reply to

What happens to ANY child that you constantly BEAT with your bible.....They begin to see just how insane you and your religion are.
The end result....is completely due to your mistreatment of this child. Homosexuality, polygamy, bi-sexuality, substance abuse........

What ever, keep telling your child they are crap.....and eventually the will believe you (this is whats known as emotional abuse)O

post by gabby2011

Originally posted by gabby2011
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

But you are not to tell the sinner or your child that they will go to hell if they don't change. this is judgemnet.

Maybe it is honesty out of love?

I remember reading once about someone who had been shown a vision of hell..

This person commented on how this young girl was cursing her parents in hell for not warning her about the bad sexually perverted books she read.. and other things she was into...and not telling her that hell existed.

I'm not saying you tell your children every time you see them that if they don't change they are going to hell.. but I think consistent sincere pray to Jesus, will help turn their conscience ..and a gentle warning about those who will not acknowledge Gods commandments and what happens to them is better than them saying later that you didn't care enough to tell them the truth.

Let me help you explain a verse in the bible. Love is not made perfect in fear.

Gabby I know you are a good person but you have much to learn. Sometimes we need to listen better so we can learn better. You know the love God has for you, but you have yet to see the love God has for all.

Here is how I teach my child. Love is inside you, that love is God. God wants you to always listen to the love inside you. When you don't listen to the love inside you, you do things that are against your father. Going against him causes you to feel bad. When you listen to him you feel joy.

When she does the wrong thing. I ask her are you listening to your love. When she is really upset she will ignore me because she knows that she is willfully ignoring God. This is punishment enough. Many times she cries when she calms down because she knows that she knew love but chose not to listen.

You see never is she afraid of God or hell. She fully accepts that love lives in her and that she has a choice. She realizes that she condemns herself to anger and depression when she doesn’t listen to God. She judges herself by knowing that she knew right from wrong but did not listen.

In this way love is rewarded with love and anything not done out of love is rewarded by separation from her father in heaven. She is afraid to be separated from God, not because God stopped loving her but she stopped loving him.

In this way love leads to love. It is because she loves God, and she feels joy that she has a desire to please God.

Do you see that I have taught her the wisdom of God and love, without ever teaching her fear? Love is not made perfect in Love. My daughter understands more at 6 than I did at 30. Frankly it is because of her that I went to my father for advice. It is because of my faith to go to my father that he has taught me about his love and how to explain it to my daughter.

Originally posted by gabby2011
I remember reading once about someone who had been shown a vision of hell..

Jesus is truth.

Where ever two or more are gathered in his name, TRUTH, he will dwell with and be amongst them.

TWO or more witnesses.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by sacgamer25

Originally posted by gabby2011
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

But you are not to tell the sinner or your child that they will go to hell if they don't change. this is judgemnet.

Maybe it is honesty out of love?

I remember reading once about someone who had been shown a vision of hell..

This person commented on how this young girl was cursing her parents in hell for not warning her about the bad sexually perverted books she read.. and other things she was into...and not telling her that hell existed.

I'm not saying you tell your children every time you see them that if they don't change they are going to hell.. but I think consistent sincere pray to Jesus, will help turn their conscience ..and a gentle warning about those who will not acknowledge Gods commandments and what happens to them is better than them saying later that you didn't care enough to tell them the truth.

Let me help you explain a verse in the bible. Love is not made perfect in fear.

Gabby I know you are a good person but you have much to learn. Sometimes we need to listen better so we can learn better. You know the love God has for you, but you have yet to see the love God has for all.

Here is how I teach my child. Love is inside you, that love is God. God wants you to always listen to the love inside you. When you don't listen to the love inside you, you do things that are against your father. Going against him causes you to feel bad. When you listen to him you feel joy.

When she does the wrong thing. I ask her are you listening to your love. When she is really upset she will ignore me because she knows that she is willfully ignoring God. This is punishment enough. Many times she cries when she calms down because she knows that she knew love but chose not to listen.

You see never is she afraid of God or hell. She fully accepts that love lives in her and that she has a choice. She realizes that she condemns herself to anger and depression when she doesn’t listen to God. She judges herself by knowing that she knew right from wrong but did not listen.

In this way love is rewarded with love and anything not done out of love is rewarded by separation from her father in heaven. She is afraid to be separated from God, not because God stopped loving her but she stopped loving him.

In this way love leads to love. It is because she loves God, and she feels joy that she has a desire to please God.

Do you see that I have taught her the wisdom of God and love, without ever teaching her fear? Love is not made perfect in Love. My daughter understands more at 6 than I did at 30. Frankly it is because of her that I went to my father for advice. It is because of my faith to go to my father that he has taught me about his love and how to explain it to my daughter.

Yes.. she is a child now.. but when she is an adult, and she starts to hang out with kids that do drugs.. and she starts to experiment with orgies..what will you tell her then?

were not talking about telling young children under 16 here about hell.. we are talking about telling young adults...who start believing what their friends believe.. and when daddy says is that love talking inside you.. they will roll up their eyes, and ask you if that was love talking inside you the other day while you gossiped about your neighbor...and walk away.

Please don't patronize me with your fear and love teachings to small child. We are talking about something different altogether.

I believe in the apparitions of Mary, and she warns of what will happen to souls often.. out of love. She weeps for souls that she knows will not listen.. but she doesn't stop telling them of the consequences of the sin they are choosing. Why do you think Jesus would ask for this prayer to be added to the rosary?

"Oh my Jesus.. forgive us our sins.. save us from the fires of hell..lead all souls to heaven...especially those in most need of thy mercy."

If Jesus can warn about Hell, and He does in the New testament often, I think we can as Christians as well.

Originally posted by gabby2011
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

I would like to clarify what you call a horrible death. They realized that through their death, their faith was justified and their death is what gave power to the living. Just as Christ’s death gave power to all, there death gave power to few. The ability to stand up to persecution is the true measure of one’s faith. If one does not face persecution their faith has not been made complete.

ok.. So God allows His followers to be persecuted by evil for a true measure of faith..yet He protects them from all evil?

make up your mind..is it one or the other?

How about the Christian doctor.. who's home was broken into by two criminals..and his daughters were tied up as well as him, and his wife was made to go withdraw money from their account, while they were all tied up at home. The daughters were raped.. and the mother was tied up, and the house set on fire. The father managed to escape...but last time I saw him on Oprah.. he was a mess, and had to be talked out of suicide by his sister.

If you really say we should not judge.. those two men should be allowed to not face any type of prosecution.. and we should all love them.. and "turn the other cheek"..especially the father.

Why do you not have faith to believe that these criminals will face judgment?

Why do you pick and choose the verses that you think I believe in? I believe in the whole word of God. And God has provided me with provision on how to deal with something like this.

The bible says the law is for the lawless. The men who committed these crimes are horrible and should be punished by the law, not by me. I have a right to peruse the law against these criminals. Jesus said that he put all authority in place, and that we are to do what they say not what they do. The bible says that the law is for the lawless and that God put the authorities in place. Do you see that God has provided a system where I don’t have to be the judge? Would it be fair that in my heart I judge these men to hell? I don’t know for sure but I am sure that I will be forgiven if I do.

Have you not also heard the stories of tragedy where people learn how to forgive and remain faithful to God? Do you think Job is only a story in the bible? This man faced extreme persecution, the kind that I wish on no man. But there is a truth in this story. For those who continue to have faith in God after something like this their faith is made perfect.

You see if one can remain faithful to God through anything the evil in the world does to them, they prove that indeed nothing can destroy their faith and thus it is made perfect.

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by gabby2011
I remember reading once about someone who had been shown a vision of hell..

Jesus is truth.

Where ever two or more are gathered in his name, TRUTH, he will dwell with and be amongst them.

TWO or more witnesses.

With Love,

Your Brother

Oh so.. unless you have someone by your side..Jesus will abandon you?

Trust me.. there have been many who have gathered in the name of Jesus, and they do not have Jesus there.

reply to post by sacgamer25

Why do you not have faith to believe that these criminals will face judgment?

Now you are talking about judgement.. like it is the right thing to happen.... but 4 posts ago you were saying God is love..not judgement.

When I point out to you how judgement is needed.. you turn it all around on me ..and try to tell me I lack faith by that silly question.

Wow talk about snakey, and wiggling put of the point I was trying to make.. and try and make yourself look like the righteous one.

If you have faith that these criminals will face judgement.. then you are indeed are saying what I was trying to say all along.. that Gods love does include judgement.

I rest my case.. and I'm really disappointed in the head games you try and play.. so I will leave you be now.

Originally posted by gabby2011

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by gabby2011
I remember reading once about someone who had been shown a vision of hell..

Jesus is truth.

Where ever two or more are gathered in his name, TRUTH, he will dwell with and be amongst them.

TWO or more witnesses.

With Love,

Your Brother

Oh so.. unless you have someone by your side..Jesus will abandon you?

I have someone by my side BECAUSE God has not abandoned me.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


So god has abandoned those who are single or you mean you and god are buddies?

reply to post by gabby2011


I am making her strong with the word of God, just as I do with my 16 year step daughter. My children listen to the bible daily on CD. I firmly believe that the Holy Spirit is the teacher and that they will learn the truth for themselves. I challenged my step daughter to read the New Testament as a book report and she accepted my challenge even though she feels a little awkward with a bible in her hand a public school.

You see they listen to the bible because we love our father. Everything that I teach them about being good I reference that I learned this from the bible, so they know where the wisdom comes from. By constantly talking about, listening to, and reading the word we become strengthened by it. It is the word that will let us know what spirit we are listening to.

My step daughter knows that many of her friends who are promiscuous and into drugs are being guided by evil spirits. She knows this because the word of God has taught her how to distinguish between the spirit of truth and the evil spirits.

What she also knows is that her friends are miserable because they have followed evil spirits. She feels empathy for them and wishes they would follow the truth. She does not judge them, she accepts that they need love. She has shared her faith with many of her friends. She tells her friends that she chooses not to go down the path they are going.

Has she made mistakes? Of course, many. Do I threaten her with hell, never? I don’t need to; all I have to ask her is where the joy of god is. You can know the spirit you follow by the fruit. If you are angry and depressed you are following evil spirits. For if you were only doing the will of the father and following the Holy Spirit you would only be filled with Joy. Joy is the reward for loving.

Maybe some people need to fear hell in order to be good.

But me and my children love God enough that we don’t desire to do bad. And when we don’t listen we recognize the feeling of Joy has left us, because we have separated ourselves from that Joy by not listening. When we are ready we come back to our father for forgiveness and begin to follow him again, again we are filled with Joy.

Originally posted by Garfee
So god has abandoned those who are single or you mean you and god are buddies?

God is within you my friend. If you want to be single, be single.

What ever you want to be, believe you will be it, and you will be.

If someone is not what they want to be, then yes, their belief has abandoned them.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by gabby2011
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

Why do you not have faith to believe that these criminals will face judgment?

Now you are talking about judgement.. like it is the right thing to happen..

.. but 4 posts ago you were saying God is love..not judgement.

When I point out to you how judgement is needed.. you turn it all around on me ..and try to tell me I lack faith by that silly question.

Wow talk about snakey, and wiggling put of the point I was trying to make.. and try and make yourself look like the righteous one.

If you have faith that these criminals will face judgement.. then you are indeed are saying what I was trying to say all along.. that Gods love does include judgement.

I rest my case.. and I'm really disappointed in the head games you try and play.. so I will leave you be now.

I never said that God's love does not include judgment. What I did say is the Christianity which is following Christ does not teach the follower to judge. Christ teaches us quite directly not to judge, with a firm warning. If you judge you will be judged by the same measure.

You and I are not the judge. You don’t know if the homosexual is going to heaven or hell. You don’t have the knowledge it takes to judge anyone. Christianity is not about judgment. It is about love.

Christ even prayed for forgiveness for those who had crucified him. Why do you think he would pray for them? Because they had been deceived by the evil one. Because they had been deceived by the evil spirit he accused them of listening to their father Satan. For if they had opened their hearts they would have seen clearly that they were being led by evil.

What I am saying is that you and I don’t need to be a judge. When you spread the message of judgment and hell you only spread fear. We are born with the fear of God. Each of us is afraid of our own mortality. You don’t need to be the father and you are not equipped to be him. Even Jesus did not consider equality to the father as something to be grasped.

The son was sent to love and to teach the world about love and how to love. Because God is love. God punishes those he loves in order that they may become perfect in love. For no one can become perfect in love through fear.

Simply accept that you are to love the people of the world as your brothers. Have empathy for the sinner, so that you may love them more perfectly. How can anyone know God’s grace when you don’t show them mercy yourself?

Exactly what am I saying that goes against our lord Jesus?

reply to post by sacgamer25


More self righeousness about how great of a father you are..and again completely skirting the issue on judgement..which is what this is all about.

As your children grow up..they will lose respect if you play these little head games with them.. trust me..

You say God is all about love not judgement..then when I give you examples .. you say to me..

"do you not have faith in God's judgement?"

yes I do have faith in Gods judgement, and I have faith in the judgement He gave me to use....a judgment rooted in love and what is right.

Do you think you are not judging your daughter when you say to her.. "are you using your love within? "

Its still a judgement based in the form of a question? .. so please..save all the God is love.. not judgement stuff.. because its clear its both combined.

reply to post by gabby2011


I am not even a good father. God is the only one that is good, without his word I would not be fit to raise a child. I gave all the credit to the father and the Holy Spirit in my post. Please don't accuse me of being rightouse when I give all credit to God.

My children follow God because it fills them with Joy.

When they choose not to follow him they lose the Joy.

This is judgment. This is exactly what I teach them.

They can live in joy or die in judgment the choice is there’s.

I am given the authority and the duty to teach them of their choices. I am not there judge although I will punish them when they do not follow what is right. In this way they know that I do believe in the word, and because I love them, and I want to help them stay on the narrow path. I never do this because I want them to be afraid of hell.

You don’t want to give up your judge’s seat, scaring everyone into believing what you believe. Is this what Jesus told you to do? This may be what the church told you to do but you will not find this in the words spoken by our lord Christ Jesus.