*Do you remember when contrails were contrails, and the sky never got tic tac toe'd?*

Originally posted by JRockABM


Tell me why Russia, Iran, and China do not have this same problem.

Check. Mate.

edit on 29-1-2012 by JRockABM because: (no reason given)

Check Mate? I think not. Here's a video with Persistent contrails over Russia.



They don't have this "problem" like the rest of the world doesn't have this "problem", because IT'S NOT A PROBLEM. They don't have armchair internet conspiracy nutjobs filling the minds of gullible people with rubbish (although their governments do a fine job of that).

Russian and Chinese citizens aren't out filming contrails like Americans are. That's why there's so little video and pictures from those countries.

Look, more Persistant contrails over Russia.

"The lines criss-crossing the cloud of smoke are contrails from passing aircraft. Visible north of the smoke cloud is the Ob River."

www.eosnap.com...

Originally posted by waynos
reply to post by Captain Beyond

 

But how can someone reliably draw a conclusion from what they arelooking at if there is a big hole in their understanding of what they are looking at? that's just guessing, isn't it?

For example, one can hardly correctly deduce that a trail cannot be a contrail because it has been there for two hours and spread if one is unaware that this is something contrails do. The logic is flawed.

As one that does not just follow the crowd, what was it that made you sure that you were looking at something that was not a contrail?

For myself, I don't think that chemtrails are impossible, far from it. I just think that nobody has reliably or convincingly shown that chemtrails are really out there and all of the logic so far posted about WHY they believe them to be chemtrails has been flawed, along the lines I used as an example.

So I'm sceptical, but still looking out for that killer sign. Someone may well try or do it one day, just not yet.

edit on 28-1-2012 by waynos because: (no reason given)

Well Waynos, I have seen jets flying in tandem or more, and there will be a large trail behind the planes, and then all of a sudden, it just stops? Like someone turned off a valve or something. If it was a contrail, wouldn't it continue behind the planes? Don't you find that strange? I have been logging the times and dates I see them. I don't know what I will gain from this data, but I will continue to do it.

Originally posted by Captain Beyond

I have seen jets flying in tandem or more, and there will be a large trail behind the planes, and then all of a sudden, it just stops? Like someone turned off a valve or something. If it was a contrail, wouldn't it continue behind the planes? Don't you find that strange? I have been logging the times and dates I see them. I don't know what I will gain from this data, but I will continue to do it.

It will stop as soon as conditions are no longer suitable for contrail formation.

Have a look at a cloud - it has edges - beyond those edges the conditions are not right for cloud formation, and so there is no cloud. Sometimes those edges can be quite sharply defined, sometimes they are fuzzier - but they are always there somewhere.

Same with contrails - atmospheric conditions are everything.

reply to post by Drew99GT


More chemtrails over russia at Aircrap.org

Originally posted by dawnprince

We don't need to get together

Yet you and your buddies "get together" everytime someone logs on and starts a thread about geo-engineering

because at the end of the day , anybody with an ounce of common sense knows that chemtrails are just an internet myth , perpetuated by boys in anoraks .

Peace

Well, you know what they say, sometimes less is more.

For those of you who wish to discuss the matter, don't be dissuaded by the usual gang here. It's pretty obvious what their agenda is. Pay them no mind.

[size=11]
Liars, Liars, all the deniers,
Or anyone who would take the sight from my eyes,
the insight from my mind, and the sense from my being.
Worthless you must feel inside, against your greater
hearts you rebel, you hopeless deceiving defenders of contrived lies
Steer clear of mirrors and dreams.


Excellent and Spot on Jrock. This is about Central Banking and the NAZIS.
I will post more 2morrow.

pshea

reply to post by HIWATT

It's pretty obvious what their agenda is. Pay them no mind.

So OBVIOUS!! Pay no attention to there "scientific" magic explanations. Its just a bunch bunch of mambo jumbo I cant understand!!!

Jrock is right! Lets have faith in his internet comment.

BTW, the "contrail" experts made a mistake. They showed images of persistent "contrails" in Russia! But thats impossible! Because there are no contrails in Russia!

Check and mate.



High five everybody!

reply to post by pshea38

Excellent and Spot on Jrock. This is about Central Banking and the NAZIS.

Yes! This is definitely connected to the Nazi's! I would be willing to go so far as to say Hitler himself is flying these planes!

Thanks for your contribution!

reply to post by Captain Beyond


Thanks for the reply, and I do understand why that looks odd. I don't know if you've seen many of my posts in other threads, but I try to photograph trails and the planes that leave them, partly because I like using my 36x zoom on my camera, lol, partly because I am fascinated by aircraft and aviation, and just a tiny bit because if I am the one that finds the evidence it will prove to all and sundry that this sceptic is open minded.

I've phtographed where two (and more) aircraft are leaving parallel trails from my perspective, checking shows it to be a coincidence. For example there could be an A320 of EasyJet en route to Paris from Liverpool, while to the side, and higher, there would be a much bigger 777 from, say, Delta, also en route to Paris, or Frankfurt, say, but having flown over the Atlantic to get here. They look the same size and close together by a trick of perspective, but they really aren't. This proves to be the case literally every time, and it is a bit of a sad hobby of mine that I do often. Obviously that's here, but have you tried to do the same? Could you? The result may be the same, who knows? The fact is that I have never yet found two aircraft genuinely flying side by side, but have seen what appear to be, loads of times.

Regarding the stop-start of trails, I've seen this too, and I realise how it happens naturally due to the plane flying through a patch of sky where contrail formation conditions aren't present. Think of taking a slice from the middle of a cloud with a break in the middle through which you can see blue sky, a common enough sight. In isolation this section would look like a stop-start trail, because that is exactly how they happen, a bit like drawing a line over a sheet of paper and crossing a wet spot, only in this case the plane is crossing a 'dry' spot.

I know that doesn't prove that you cannot have witnessed a stop-start Chemtrail, but it tends to be a lack of understanding that it can just happen that way that leads people to assume that they must be looking at a deliberate act. This is what I've experienced in these threads, you know? " it cannot possibly just be a contrail because.........." followed by a description that could easily be, and probably is, just a contrail.

Originally posted by Drew99GT

They don't have this "problem" like the rest of the world doesn't have this "problem", because IT'S NOT A PROBLEM. They don't have armchair internet conspiracy nutjobs filling the minds of gullible people with rubbish (although their governments do a fine job of that).

Russian and Chinese citizens aren't out filming contrails like Americans are. That's why there's so little video and pictures from those countries.

Check. And. Mate.

Couldn't have put it better myself. There are many reasons why there are so many more pictures of these so called "Chemtrails" in the US and not in Russia, or China, and definitely not in Iran.

1) Population distribution below major Airways
2) Distribution of people with digital cameras or camera phones in said areas
3) Number of people in said areas who even think to take a photo of the sky when airlines are passing through the airways above them.
4)Number of people after taking said photo who have internet access and the initiative to upload the photo

There's probably more, but I think you get the point.

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

Originally posted by Captain Beyond

I have seen jets flying in tandem or more, and there will be a large trail behind the planes, and then all of a sudden, it just stops? Like someone turned off a valve or something. If it was a contrail, wouldn't it continue behind the planes? Don't you find that strange? I have been logging the times and dates I see them. I don't know what I will gain from this data, but I will continue to do it.

It will stop as soon as conditions are no longer suitable for contrail formation.

Have a look at a cloud - it has edges - beyond those edges the conditions are not right for cloud formation, and so there is no cloud. Sometimes those edges can be quite sharply defined, sometimes they are fuzzier - but they are always there somewhere.

Same with contrails - atmospheric conditions are everything.

that excuse won't fly any more, debunked earlier

A phenomenon that chemtrail followers also point to to indicate the suspicious nature of the trails is what is termed the "on and off switch". Often, when chemtrails appear overhead, there will be a space in the trail, where what seems to be aerial spraying was turned off, for a time, then turned back on.
This does not happen, ever, for conventional contrails. Planes forming the short tails of contrail fog behind them do not go through periods when the cloud will disappear; the clouds themselves, even though they last for a short time, do not show spaces in them. Debunkers, unsurprisingly, dismiss these claims, insisting that there is nothing in the breaks in chemtrails that indicate anything out of what they term the usual.

Tellingly, though, actual addresses of the issue of the "on off switch" are rare on debunker websites. In fact, only one site, www22.brinkster.com/Seawana/Conspiracies/Chemtrails.asp, which boasts the title, "The Way of the Dodo", actually devotes any real space to an attempted "explanation" of chemtrail breaks.

In characteristically contemptuous and insulting fashion, the section begins, "Ah yes. These rare photos are a favorite among the believers." The originator of the site, who identifies himself as Skip Ernst, describes "the neanderthals running" spray operations as having "mistakenly turned off the spray for a few moments".

"Can you believe the government has hired a bunch of bumbling idiots to perform their top secrets operations?", Mr. Ernst adds, mockingly.

He posits that the breaks are caused by jets having "simply passed through a pocket of air where contrails" - carefully, he doesn,t refer to them as "chemtrails"! - "will not form. The air could be too warm or too dry to form the ice crystals which make a contrail visible."

It is eminently unlikely, if not patently impossible, that air that high up would be so warm, to begin with. The jets that form chemtrails typically fly at at least three miles high. Even if it was too warm, a trail, of sorts, of water vapor would be likely, following the jet. And, even if the air were very dry, a trace of the ice crystals from the jet engines, that supposedly form the "seed" for the chemtrail, should be visible, and it is not.

And that is leaving aside, entirely, the fact that there is little reason to believe that an isolated, tiny, patch of air could be so radically different from the overwhelming mass of air around it! If an area of warm or dry air were to intrude, it is likely that it would be no time before the rest of the air around it would bring it into equilibrium.

Debunking Chemtrail Debunkers - The Government's Quisling Shills

you guy's need to stop getting your "science" [and talking points] from the same old Con-Troller sites and actually do some science.
if you want to be taken seriously

ahhhh the smell of ignorance denied in the morning

Yes I remember. Didn't start personally noticing chemtrails (or whatever the hell it is) until about 2002. I remeber before that seeing a random streak here and there that would disappear in a bit, never the crisscrossed thick smoke that last hours in the sky at times. I;ve also noted that it is done usually afternoon time in the direction of the sun before it sets.

reply to post by DerepentLEstranger


The "source" that you inserted to the post with the "[ ex ]" BB code tags is rubbish.

THAT is part of the problem, and 'you' types will ignore the actual science and information from those of us educated, knowledgeable, and most importantly, experienced in these matters, and instead just gobble up some nonsense like that wall of text you posted from the external source.

There are so many factual errors in it, would take nearly an entire page in this ATS thread to address them all.

But, if you are personally OK with being so woefully ill-informed, no one is stopping you. Just, you'd think a rational adult would want to be able to separate the idiotic nonsense from the scientific facts.......


To use an analogy that isn't connected to this topic, but illustrates how misconceptions that are ignorance-based can be harmful, consider that centuries ago one prevailing "medical remedy" that was based on abject ignorance of the Human body, and absent any science, led to the conclusion that "blood letting" a patient would somehow be beneficial to him/her.

These people thought that blood would become "tainted" with illness, and removing some of it would help in the recovery process. Ironically, now that we know about disease, bacteria, viruses, etc and how they can be carried in the blood, they were sort of on the right track, but terribly, terribly wrong about it in their assumptions.

ALL based on ignorance.

This "chemtrail" hoax thrives on the same variation of that sort of ignorance.

reply to post by ProudBird


the link i posted is a catalogue of chemtrail debunking tactics and sources, debunked.

which you'd understand, if you'd actually read it
instead of attacking it because it's on educate yourself.org
which you have already arbitrarily decided to dismiss, beforehand.

sorta like dismissing information because of link to ATS [crazy conspiracy theorists website]
attacking the messenger is a shill tactic, doesn't matter if you're being paid or are merely a system justifier
that is not debunking,
or proper science

nice try, thanks for playing

NEXT!

Originally posted by DerepentLEstranger
the link i posted is a catalogue of chemtrail debunking tactics and sources, debunked.

Can you find no errors in that page? Do you agree with everything it says? Particularly:

Instead of the normal kind of contrails, usually accredited to jet aircraft, which stretch for a short distance behind the tail of the jet, and dissipate, as the sun warms and evaporates the ice crystals in the tails, these would stretch, generally, from horizon to horizon.

You think all normal contrails are short?

reply to post by Uncinus


why waste my valuable time
on pseudo-disingenuous nit-picking or any other tactics
designed to keep people running around in circles.

you've been playing for quite awhile on a planeload of threads and are still not on the same page?

dismissed

NEXT!

Originally posted by DerepentLEstranger
attacking the messenger is a shill tactic, doesn't matter if you're being paid or are merely a system justifier
that is not debunking, or proper science

vs.

Originally posted by DerepentLEstranger
why waste my valuable time
on pseudo-disingenuous nit-picking or any other tactics
designed to keep people running around in circles.

So Proudbird does not want to waste his time, and you call that attacking the messenger. But they you do the same thing with me?

Anyway. I'll comment no more on that. I'd prefer to talk about the science and the evidence. I'd invite you to do the same.

reply to post by Uncinus


anybody with a brain can see that you are now misrepresenting my words
while actually proving my point to boot.

LOL yet another fail:shk:

instead of disproving any of that or the video, you want to go back to the beginning and define chemtrail
as if you didn't know the difference between contrails and chemtrails by now...

nobody is that stupid.

ergo, you are merely wasting time for the sake of wasting time.
and presenting [or representing] neither science or evidence.

just the same old trickery from the same old and out of date manual/playbook.

don't waste my time with crap, or circle jerks.

unless you actually have something to contribute.

Originally posted by DerepentLEstranger
instead of disproving any of that or the video, you want to go back to the beginning and define chemtrail
as if you didn't know the difference between contrails and chemtrails by now...

I know that people CLAIM that chemtrails last a long time, but contrails don't.

However that's been shown to be false. Contrails are sometimes short, but they can also last a long time, they can also spread.

So, what is the difference?