"The Internal Working Components of One type of UFO"., page 17

Originally posted by DUSA922
reply to post by SoulVisions

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What is the point finally. let's assume the craft work by virtue of an unexplained phenomena (there are so many around us that most scientific theories need to be updated deeply) what would be the use of it if we (our consciousness) could be able to learn how to manage the process in play for example when a person die (and..come back) , in case of remote-viewing, devination, telepathy, intuiton in general, out of body experiences and so on. In such a case we should be able to teletransport our consciousness everywhere and explore the universe instantaneously.

If we could all do those things, especially teleport or remote view, then there'd be no reason at all to use a vehicle to travel.

Still though, I think that's an awesome question, DUSA. This was similar to what I had asked Matrix in regards to why a craft would be necessary if we could travel just by "interfacing."

This is only my personal conjecture but aside from the "fun" or challenge of it, I believe that endeavors into the unknown, be it space or new technologies even, keep us focused and even happy.

Ever speak to an individual who let's say has money, but is not currently working or involved in things of that nature? 95% of the time they actually are unhappy. There's something to the whole "need" to work and have your worth re-affirmed when a goal of any type is met. We'd go mind-numbingly crazy if every single thing was provided us our whole lives. More than boredom; closer to "purpose."

There are so many benefits to be gained, as well. New sights, adventures, chances to learn, expand mentally, physically, socially, spiritually, and test our own abilities or virtues when the aforementioned challenges occur.

These are all things that would go towards the betterment of humankind. Just as soon as (and I hate to go here but) greed, fear, jealousy, and pride are put aside. Unfortunately, only a life-threatening situation galvanizes everyone together anymore. (almost like when a loved family member dies, rivalries are put aside)

Please excuse my brief jaunt there into the philosophical realm. I could go on forever on this subject.

Things like spaceship design and whatnot like this thread was to be on, would work to bring people together too! But almost exactly as this thread's story played out, there are a few people out there that just aren't ready to do it yet. People have their own agenda most of the time. For instance, I plan on sharing what I know about how these airships could potentially be made. Do I know what will happen when I do? Yes, I do. Again, look at this thread here on ATS.

So then why haven't I already? Because, even though it's used for military purposes, I totally respect the hours, weeks, and years spent in thought that it took to create such things. If someone other than myself started a business based on selling a new flavor of ice cream that I knew how to make too, would it be kind at all of me to tell the world how that person's ice cream is made so that the customers can go and make it at home, ruining that entrepreneur's hard work and only means of living? I don't think so.

More than any other single reason why not to do it, of course, would be if it could be used as a weapon. And this isn't paranoia on my part, it's concern for other people's welfare. Think about something like a fisherman's net: Someone, somewhere took this net and used it on someone else.

I'm not saying anyone here necessarily would do something like this, and I very much admit my great wonder , curiosity, and desire for Matrix to continue towards this thread, but if I think something might hurt someone else in any way, I am going to say something about it. You wouldn't let a child play with a gun like it was a toy, would you?

This doesn't mean I want anything to remain a secret, or for people to stop everything they're doing just because it holds risk, I just want to let them know to be careful. That's it. Almost everything is risky, true, but I'm still gonna tell a child (someone who is unaware) to look both ways before crossing the street, you know? Not every crosswalk is safe.

Originally posted by SoulVisions
reply to post by The Matrix Traveller

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Enough. If anyone else in the thread wishes to continue the discussion relevant to "UFO" technology, I'd like to hear your comments as well.

Matrix, I don't need to prove anything here to anyone in these forums. They see how you are acting for themselves. You have tried time and again on the internet to share your "knowledge" but receive little to no interest after you reach a point. You are only what? 62 years old now, and your medical records state some things that are in obvious contrast to what you make it out to be, and other items you claim to be true are exaggerations. I told you, I was going to assist you but no matter your real job experience in geometric processing systems, your mind (health-wise) must be determined "sound" if you ever desired any kind of recruitment, help, or any other thing related to your goals. I will not trade arguments with you anymore. You've been at this for years. You're offered interest and help and you want to trade insults. Best of luck.

Actually your comment about TMT receiving little interest is not true. I've been following TMT posts for quite some while and there is always interest.

Its very complex, yet an easy topic to understand..complex in the sense that it takes awhile, easier to understand once you wrap you mind around what is normally seen as a complexities I guess!

To top that off your post is just plain Odd

reply to post by SoulVisions

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Very interesting exchange of information betweem yourself and a scientific.Very possible you are one (a scientific)also.
Your first paragraph seems to indicate that you dont believe in the story of ed fouche whereby a secret triangle shaped ufo would use very high velocity spinning mercury (I think rather it should be a mercury ceramic) supraconducting torus cooled at 144 K for generating so far a 90 percent reduction of the mass (gravitational and .. inertial ) If I am on this craft when it accelerate 50 G my body will only feel the same effect as a 5 G acceleration. The problem is that some civilian scientific publications ( already mentionned ) from 2006 and before show this to be possible ( if improved).

As far as the wormhole equations you mention require a new element I dont know. But here you support Bob Lazard explanations whereby the warping of spacetime by a UFO is carried out trough an antimatter reaction phenomena involving a new element (almost synthetized scientificaly on earth) able to produce gravitational waves.

Electric field combined with magnetic field around an aircraft are indeed able by generating lift and pull forces in the air surrounding the craft to open the way to the craft when it move in the atmosphere. By displacing the air "electrically" before the egde of attack of the craft reach it to deflect it mechanically as in the case of a conventional aircraft a lot of classical phenomenas are reduced tremendously (heating up, shockwave..)
.
The heating up of certain materials causing curious behavior of matter as mentionned (supraconduction, loss of mass..) make me think about the ormus story. There are scientific publications on this subject (atom clusters, etc) but so far they seem to indicate that Ormus would rather be clusters of combined metals (behaving in a new state of matter) than another high spin state form of the metal itself. Gold ormus would be in fact GOLD-Na.
By the way if there are so much of these clusters in normal water on earth, this could explain the "cold fusion effect" whereby water tested pure but containing say cu-na (cu-na clusters cannot be found by classical chemical analysis ) trough a catalysed electrolysis will change to water with an excess of heath containing cu. So far they thing it is transmutation in play but the reaction cu-na to cu plus na give lot of heath.(this heath was necessary in the first place to transform cu into cu-na or gold into ormus (gold-na)
And the same research indicate that some supraconducting effects appear in many combined metal atom clusters. So far I have not yet found a civilian research work confirming the results (loss of mass) of the ormus inventor. Anyway this a promising field of research because when you combine the supraconducting effect of clusters (at hopefully normal temperature) with the equations of Harry puthof regarding gravity you get everything you need to make an UFO behaving the way some observe them (including sudden dissapearence from our spacetime dimensions.)

reply to post by Somamech

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Amen as we say on earth

reply to post by SoulVisions

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thanks for your comments SoulVisions.
I have not tried in anyway to realise a " lifting" machine.
I am just an open mind, not mainstream scientific, who learn everyday to progress in my field of interest as the propositions of new sytems, explanations and the scientific publications produced everyday in any field are staggering.

You explained very well the wormholes you are refering to. By the way a youtube video made by Bob Lazard
explain the craft travel the same way you do and therein, drawings and pictures help a lot to undestand.
.
ndeed, Main stream science acknowledge that there are various size of black-holes. Even the CERN accelerator researchers are now faced with mini kind of black hole which suck every energy they want to put into them by collision, they grow but no new particles are detected as if the "singularity install itself as if a frontier between the ball of energy and the matter created out of it (the particles) Here i am anticipating that black hole are in fact stable (in the galaxies they dont destroy stars, in fact they generate, by matter ejection and various field emissions), new stars. they look rather as convertor of energy to matter.
They are stable because all the variables reach the infinite limit : the speed of the rotating mass around their center try to reach the speed of light, at the same time the mass of the rotating material tend to reach an infinite value (by the einstein relativity equation) consequently the energy of the spinning matter tend to reach an infinite value. That's why is called a singularity.
So let's assume we call black-hole or singularity any local phenomena where vacuum energy field and matter are in direct relation (exchanging energy and informations - for a creation?) and there are much more of these phenomena than what happen in galaxies centers.

So to come back and summarize what has been exposed in this topic.
You confirm that it is not in fact the localized centrifugal force which is in play here in order to generate a lift or a pull but rather another phenomena which generate fields (you mention 3-5 without details: I assume gravitational, magnetic, electric, X-rays, B...?)
You describe, I am right, what path (not simple to realise in a mechanical device with water) a particle of matter should follow in order to generate gravitational waves leading to the possibility of opening a wormhole in spacetime for the "displacement" of the craft .

Finally as I understand it and in order to summarize, only two type of UFO have been discussed here:

one type is based on a theory where gravity is electromagnetism (see recent publication by Physic scientific Harry Puthoff) . This type imply a mass modification of the craft which is produced trough an electromagnetic device where a torus shaped supraconducting mass (which could be made of the best ceramic product (mercury ceramic 144 K) or even using a powder formed solid out of the atoms cluster (ormus inventor effect) Here Puthoff equations indicate that inertial mass as well as gravitational mass of the craft are reduced towards zero (even a pull force very limited give rise to accelerations not limited by inertia, and this is true for the air surrounding the craft when in our atmosphere (no shockwaves, no heath..) No detail is given regarding wormhole opening in spacetime for travel but I see no reason why as a gravitational field is implied this could not be adaped further This craft is supposed to exist already in a prototype form (mercury ceramic type and conventionnal propulsion) following ed. Fouche testimony.(youtube)

A second type would have a number of localized gravitational wave emitters which would allow the craft to travel by opening a way into spacetime trough wormholes (your expression) or time wharping (Bob Lazard)
There are two way for producing the gravitational waves: your system exposed here using a mechanical high water spinning device (by a mechanism I still have to understand) and the Bob Lazard witnessed system where a new periodic element bombarded with positrons generate anti-matter which in turn generate power for the craft as well as gravitational waves which are amplified and which flux is controlled by orientable wave guides. Here there is no mention of an effect on the mass (gravitational and or inertial) the fact beeing that the craft make the spacetime move to travel when it doesnt move that much in fact.

I hope I have placed the original topic device where it stand in these two concepts of UFO. As already mentionned there are no solid proofs either one or both of these aircraft work and exist but some public sector researches indicate that all that is not necessarily science fiction.

Originally posted by DUSA922
reply to post by SoulVisions

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thanks for your comments SoulVisions...

You explained very well the wormholes you are refering to. By the way a youtube video made by Bob Lazard explain the craft travel the same way you do and therein, drawings and pictures help a lot to undestand.

I'll make it a point to check it out, thank you.

i am anticipating that black hole are in fact stable ... they look rather as convertor of energy to matter.

You've made my day with this observation. We think so too. Forward-thinking and right on the money.

They are stable because all the variables reach the infinite limit...

Last time I had a discussion with someone about this I ended up dubious of the whole affair. Older fella I used to know fairly well was going on about something he was working on using similar terms. He was somehow "tricking" atoms, or whatever (I can't recall exactly), into acting in ways that they would normally act like when they were combined into denser configurations. Wasn't until the end of the conversation that he explained the possible scenarios of the whole experiment.

Picture an old, kindly-looking man, with gentle eyes, and this warm smile. He had to be in his 70's for sure. But the things he was trying to do! Whoa. I missed a lot of what he was talking about, as it was so complicated and far over my head, but in the end he was trying to use some process to potentially create "psuedo" elements. Which, then he wanted to use as some sort of infinite source of energy that fed as long as there was other particular types of matter around. Sounded crazy to me, like alchemy of a sort, but he was so confident about the subject. It was just one of those odd types of conversation you have with people, you know? Like when you tell your friends about it they realize it's just too crazy of an idea for you to just make up. Anyways.

You confirm that it is not in fact the localized centrifugal force which is in play here in order to generate a lift or a pull but rather another phenomena which generate fields (you mention 3-5 without details: I assume gravitational, magnetic, electric, X-rays, B...?)

No, a misunderstanding. I didn't mean different types of fielding, I meant using different manners to create the same type of field. Building upon one another. It's a failsafe system but also necessary because at times one type of engine WILL shut off. Think of when you launch a rocket, it's hit by lightning from time to time on the way up. If this type of event would have disabled your only mechanism used for lift... well, then you'd be screwed. That's why I mentioned having to account for different exterior environments. Just as you would on a space shuttle except more so, because with all those EM fields, you're just "asking" for something to happen. Other reasons for multi-systems too but it'd take forever to explain.

This type imply a mass modification of the craft which is produced trough an electromagnetic device where a torus shaped supraconducting mass (which could be made of the best ceramic product (mercury ceramic 144 K) or even using a powder...

This is accurate.

This craft is supposed to exist already in a prototype form

It's no prototype. This is decades old. I've hinted at why in one of my previous post. probably delete later. shouldn't really be discussed. not any conspiracy, it's just obvious why.

A second type would have a number of localized gravitational wave emitters which would allow the craft to travel by opening a way into spacetime trough wormholes (your expression) or time wharping ...

The centrifugal engine didn't create waves of "anti-gravity" or anything like that. I said that it could be modified to work better as a gyroscopic type device, doubling the output just with uniform tilt applied to all engines, that's all. There is no opening of "wormholes" by the device spoken about here, either. Or time dilation, or any of that. It's using everyday, commonplace physics.

My discussion regarding the "wormholes" was entirely aside from lift devices, or "ufo technology" as people seem to want to call it. That whole subject matter of space travel should just be put off to the side. Like I said before, we know how, but it doesn't even matter. We still can't do it yet.

...As already mentionned there are no solid proofs either one or both of these aircraft work and exist but some public sector researches indicate that all that is not necessarily science fiction.

"No solid proof." lol, wow.
Teach a guy to swim and he'll still refuse to jump into the water.

I'm joking, DUSA. You're alright in my book, and I guess it really doesn't matter anyway.
The one safe place to share info ends up where it's also most likely to be disbelieved.
Figures.

reply to post by tigercat1971

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I really appreciate you taking the time just to post something nice like that, Tigercat.

As for the "primates" thing: Yeah. But hey! Maybe that was the whole problem? Matrix's belief in his higher mind was so real to him, perhaps he really had left his humanity behind.

Torsion Field

Just say'n.

By continuing this, you're essentially calling Einstein an idiot, while everyone looks on embarrassed for you because you got toilet paper stuck to your foot, food in your teeth, and your argument has no legs.

If you're going to challenge Einstein, do it proper, not with cartoon drawings, but, with a real physical test platform demonstration.

Originally posted by nineix

Torsion Field

Just say'n.

By continuing this, you're essentially calling Einstein an idiot, while everyone looks on embarrassed for you because you got toilet paper stuck to your foot, food in your teeth, and your argument has no legs.

If you're going to challenge Einstein, do it proper, not with cartoon drawings, but, with a real physical test platform demonstration.

Were you addressing this statement to Matrix re: his illustrations?
Did he mention torsion fields earlier? I missed it maybe.

?

If you had meant this as a response to all of the "wormhole" discussion earlier then I'll just admit again that I'm not an expert on the science involved by any means. I try, but it's rough. Not my cup of tea, man.

If you understand things like torsion fields then this may make more sense to you than the simplification I wrote earlier. All that jazz I was going on about before really just involves the angular momentum coupling of scatter plots, and just a whole lot of unification physics. Superconductivity laws are used, but with dimensionless factors, so that you can have unitary impedance and whatnot.

The whole start of quantum relativity involved (with the unification in the equations), uses a fine-structured maxwell-law that leads on to the action-law through unitized resistance (quantum hall effect with hall voltage / (over) hall current) to show the charge quantum count. Plank-mass/energy/radius (PLO too) gets figured out, etc. etc. along with the confinement quantum so that you can figure out the edges of the hole's boundaries. Magnetic fluxes are addressed, and it just goes on and oooooon...

This is exactly why I don't do that kind of stuff. So many little things to consider using dimensionless factors/intgers/etc such as with the above-mentioned confinement quantum. It's cool if you understand what's going on but otherwise, meh. I fall asleep just thinking about it myself, even. Point of the whole matter is that it all works out. They know what they're doing and when they decide to go ahead with it later in the fall this year, maybe they'll even tell people about the "portal."

Well, that is, if everything goes as planned or unless some weird anomaly occurs. Although considering the kind of work it is, maybe we'll all know about it the moment it occurs too! I guess if we all die or something really weird happens in September this year, we'll know why at least.

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