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Corruption scandal shakes Vatican as internal letters leaked

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posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 07:48 PM
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Corruption scandal shakes Vatican as internal letters leaked


news.yahoo.com

Corruption scandal shakes Vatican as internal letters leaked

By Philip Pullella


VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - The Vatican was shaken by a corruption scandal Thursday after an Italian television investigation said a former top official had been transferred against his will after complaining about irregularities in awarding contracts.

The show "The Untouchables" on the respected private television network La 7 Wednesday night showed what it said were several letters that Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano, who was then deputy-governor of Vatican City, sent to superiors, including Pope Benedic
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 07:48 PM
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There was a recent leak of letters sent from the former deputy-governor of Vatican City Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano to several officials including the Pope himself about corruption and cronyism among contractors maintaining the museums and gardens in Vatican City.He fell victim to a smear campaign that eventually got him assigned to be the Holy See's ambassador to the US.Shortly after the sudden death of the previous ambassador.What caught my attention was this: In another letter to the pope on April 4, 2011, Vigano says he discovered the management of some Vatican City investments was entrusted to two funds managed by a committee of Italian bankers "who looked after their own interests more than ours." Looks like things have not changed much since the murder of John Paul I.The system of corruption within the Vatican is still around.

news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)


+8 more 
posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 07:55 PM
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reply to post by mike dangerously
 


Vatican City is one of the richest cities/country in the world. The Pope himself has so much money he could feed an entire nation if he wanted too, but that is the way religion works, they tell you to do what is right, take your money, and in the end live a lavish life while everyone else is suffering.



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 08:02 PM
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reply to post by Unvarnished
 

I'd like to come back to this thread, it sounds interesting. In the meantime, you may want to know that the budget for Vatican City is less than $400 Million a year.



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 08:10 PM
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reply to post by Unvarnished
 
And the people who try to do right always seem to be the ones who get punished.



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 08:19 PM
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reply to post by charles1952
 





It has an area of approximately 44 hectares (110 acres), and a population of just over 800.[6][16] This makes Vatican City the smallest independent state in the world by both area and population.


source for above

Only 400 Million a year to manage 110 acres and 800 people...
How do they afford to keep the lights on?



The city of Lexington here in Kentucky...

is the second-largest city in Kentucky and the 63rd largest in the US...


In the 2010 Census the city's population was 295,803

source for above




Mayor’s Proposed FY12 General Fund budget is a $271 million spending plan.

source for above


So thats
271 million for... 295,803 people... a total of 285.5 sq mi of land for the Consolidated city-county area...

Those poor 800 people living underfunded in the Vatican...


400 million is not a small number...
As you can tell a very large town such as Lexington, Kentucky
which is what? a 1000 times larger than the Vatican?
can operate on almost half of the Vaticans budget...


I Love Jesus...

But I have no love for the corrupt organization in Roma

It has never came as a surprise to me and never will that the Catholic Church is corrupt!





edit on 1/26/12 by EvolEric because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 08:29 PM
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reply to post by mike dangerously
 


The corruption scandal, being about the Vatican, you can be certain it will be buried deep under the sand.

And in a surprisingly short time.



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 08:29 PM
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The Roman Catholic church is the richest thing this world has.....
Since the last 50 yrs, there have been about 1500 priests and bishops charged with sex crimes.
The vatican City is one of the three ruling city states in the world....
The heart of London, the district of columbia, and the vatican, are the three city states that rule the world.....
There is ample reason for accusations of moral turpitude within the catholic organisation....
from pedophilic priests to Opus Dei members who wear devices which give then pain under their clothes.....
The catholic Church supported the Nazis during and specially after the 2nd world war....helping many ardent nazis to escape justice in other countries.
The churches massive wealth has been a constant target of con men in bishops clothing....or cardinals for that matter,the scandals are never ending.`
Native children were made victims of the church in many different countries through orphanages and residential schools.
they were tortured, raped and murdered by the staff of these places.
The RC church has been implcated in relieveing the gold of hollocaust victims from swiss banks as well......
This is not my idea of ``Gods work.....
Nor do i think the pope is anything resembling Gods Vicar on earth....
There are lots of things that are not right about lots of churches maybe, but this one is by far the most evil......



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 08:49 PM
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The whore of babylon.
EVery week I read an article about pedophelia or some morally repugnant ostensible misdeads of the church and it's "leaders" and teachers.



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 09:08 PM
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reply to post by EvolEric
 

Dear EvolEric,

Good to see you again. Tthanks for the post, it gives us a new area to explore. The priests' scandals with teenage boys aren't even interesting any more unless you're talking to someone who is open minded and willing to listen. Besides, it's way off-topic.

I'd like to get to the scandal in the OP, but I'm grateful for the chance to share information with you. You're one of the good guys.

So, what happens to the money (and how much is there)?


-- Vatican City State had income of about $340 million and expenses of about $312 million. The Vatican said a major factor in the surplus was a boom in visitors to the Vatican Museums, which occurred despite a general crisis in the tourism industry. The Vatican also underlined that the Vatican City State not only pays 1,876 employees but also spends a considerable amount each year in maintenance and restoration of its artistic and architectural treasures, which it said can rightly be described as "one of the most important historical and artistic patrimonies of humanity."
Vatican income


In explaining the city-state’s deficit, the council’s press statement mentioned that the Vatican Museums had opened new exhibition spaces and had extended visiting hours, which means the payroll grew. Vatican City is also launching a major overhaul of its telecommunications infrastructure in which a high-speed fiber optic network will be installed over some 250 miles.
Building, maintenance and restoration work on the colonnade in St. Peter’s Square and on the basilicas of St. John Lateran, St. Paul Outside the Walls and St. Mary Major required substantial expenditures, the release said. In addition, “the costs sustained for security inside Vatican City State” and for the major renovation of the Vatican Library, which should open in September, added to the deficit, it said.
Vatican expenses
Please remember also that as a soverign country there are significant diplomatic expenses as well as items like the Vatican observatory.

I don't know that every penny is perfectly accounted for, but I think you can see that they're not sitting with a cash cow.

Anyway, I'm always happy to hear from you.

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 09:27 PM
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reply to post by mike dangerously
 

If I may return to the topic of your opening post, I went to the Reuters article that the Yahoo article came from. You can find it here:
Reuters Article
There seem to be three points in the article. One was that Vigano was transferred against his will. Yes, he was given a huge promotion and sent off. There are a number of ways to read that from Vigano was being rewarded, to being physically protected, to being got out of the way, I just don't know. Maybe it was some combination.

Another point was

In another letter to the pope on April 4, 2011, Vigano says he discovered the management of some Vatican City investments was entrusted to two funds managed by a committee of Italian bankers "who looked after their own interests more than ours."
If there was a scandal here, I think it's fair to say that the people at fault were the bankers, not anyone in the Vatican.

The final point involved outside contractors who were overcharging the Vatican.

In one of the letters to the pope, Vigano said Vatican-employed maintenance workers were demoralized because "work was always given to the same companies at costs at least double compared to those charged outside the Vatican."

For example, when Vigano discovered that the cost of the Vatican's larger than life nativity scene in St Peter's Square was 550,000 euros in 2009, he chopped 200,000 euros off the cost for the next Christmas, the program said.
Again, maybe the Vatican was at fault, but it sounds like the wrong doers were the Italian workmen. I wish I knew more about it, but it's hard for me to get really upset with the Vatican about this one.

Now let's see if they fix those problems.

edit on 26-1-2012 by charles1952 because: add material at end



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 09:27 PM
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Sorry. Double posted.
edit on 26-1-2012 by charles1952 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 10:03 PM
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reply to post by mike dangerously
 


Not trying to derail but a recent news article states that as many as 10,000 Catholics have requested their de Christening or un baptism - complete with the removal of their names from the official church registers.

The spokesperson for the church tried to tell the reporter that a person cannot have a religious ritual removed. I have never read so many articles in my life as the past year - all related to the Catholic church and crimes against Children, dissatisfaction from followers, followers leaving the church in droves....

Much Peace...



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 10:46 PM
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reply to post by Amanda5
 

Here's the ATS de-baptism thread.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

You're right, it does seem like a lot of attacks on Catholicism. But they don't seem to be all that significant considering you're dealing with 1.2 Billion members. By the way, Islam has about 1.4 billion members, and they seem to be having real troubles.

Nothing here to shake your faith.



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 10:51 PM
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I'm no fan of the Roman Catholic Church or Vatican City. After all, they haven't been the best of friends to Wicca or Pagans in general, to be real generous about it. However, this seems a little cheesy to be hitting them on. I mean, Vatican City isn't a city legally or in actual practice. It's the smallest nation on Earth with it's own jurisdiction and even has it's own Military...kinda. lol...

Point being....If the Vatican itself doesn't call something improper, I'm missing where exactly anyone else has the basis to say so? It's like Chile or Tunisia saying a functionary in Reykjavic, Iceland did something improper on contracts related to Iceland. (??) I'm sure the Pope appreciates everyone having an opinion, but it matters only to the extent he feels like saying it does.

As for the money they spend...and related to the Vatican as a sovereign power, it is also likely the largest and most critical 'time vault' or repository for documents and records of historical importance on Earth. The Library at Alexandria had more, by what is known, but it's no more. The Vatican spends a lot, I'm sure, maintaining everything it's member Churches have been collecting for centuries. Much of that, I'll bet, either isn't known to 'official' history at all or would change aspects of it if widely know.
What I wouldn't give to have a few days unrestricted in those records. mmm...

Anyway... point being.. Whether I like them personally or not, they sure seem to be everyone's punching bag lately on a wide variety of things.... It's getting a bit over the top.



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 11:05 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 

Dear Wrabbit2000,

Thanks a lot for that reasonable post. I'd like to follow up on one of your ideas. It may drag me off-topic, but I'm tough enough to do my time in the ATS slammer.

This is very speculative, but could it be that the Catholic Church is being attacked because 1) it is very influential, and 2) requires obedience to something above oneself? And I don't mean obedience to the Pope (although that's included), I mean the thousands of years of doctrine that don't change every five years or when a movement pops up. There was a time when the Constitution filled that role in America, but we're being shown how influential people, including our President, can get around it. In short Obama is the measure of what's right.

I have heard, on ATS, that Islam is broken into various sects, and each Imam teaches his group the way he wants to. It reminds me a little of Protestantism.

Please, I'm not criticizing either religion, I'm just exploring what makes the Catholic Church different. I could be miles off.

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 11:17 PM
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Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 

This is very speculative, but could it be that the Catholic Church is being attacked because 1) it is very influential, and 2) requires obedience to something above oneself?


I'm not sure it'd be off topic at all would it? We're talking about a petty corruption scandal over garden variety problems which exist in any bureaucracy the with the scope and sheer red tape of a small Government. The fact it's become public enough to make it to a site like this with links and supporting sources as this is, says quite a bit for how the Vatican is being...well, picked on, to be perfectly blunt about it.

When's the last time so much as a peep was said about a scandal out of Mecca, Medina or the other Holy sites in Iraq and Iran? Do they have absolutely *NO* scandal ever occur? Yeah.. and about that Bridge I have..It's still for sale.


I think your point is very valid though. I think we are seeing a change coming over the world where the old institutions which DO demand a loyalty and sense of belonging above any king, government or potentate which may come along are a problem to be dealt with. You're certainly right that as a continuous and unbroken organization in every real sense, the Catholic Church does stand alone and unique in the world. Nothing else can be said to be the same in every fundamental way today as it was a few hundred years ago.

I'll bet there are large areas of the Vatican where the paint and corrosion treatments are all that HAVE changed in centuries. lol...

Interesting....but the scandals like this being highlighted and exploited COULD be more than they appear.


(I'll join ya in the slammer I'm wrong about that Off-Topic part.
)
edit on 26-1-2012 by Wrabbit2000 because: spacing change



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 11:24 PM
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There have been people arguing for a while now that this Holy Roman Catholic Church is a fraud. This does not go back merely to Pope John Paul II but instead, it runs through to the Second Vatican Council in the early ‘60s. At that time the more liberal elements in the Church stirring for a dramatic social reform within the Church’ own theological positions. Anyone who has ever spent time reading about the Church it was never supposed to move from its eternal position; yet it did.

This, as I and other traditionalists view it, is the fall of the Church and its corruption by satanic influences. Because of internal elements who would happily engage their own fellow cardinals, archbishops, etc… as an opposition force is quite disgusting, yet it was done. The Church crumbled at the feet of Modernity and is now reaping its sour rewards. Blame lies nowhere else but at the sinister forces gnawing away at its divine authority, traitors from within, and the acceptance of falsehoods. Now we hear constantly about sex abuse scandals, corruption, and other heinous immoral crimes which any holy institution would never engage in.

People tried to warn the Church about the traitors from within and the one whom all Catholics should have listened to was excommunicated for doing what was right. Archbishop Marcel Francois Marie Joseph Lefebvre told the truth and called them out. If you want to know the truth, research him and his society; Society of St. Pius X. There lies the truth, not the lies being spoken from the harlot sitting in Rome. When it comes crashing down, and it will, then perhaps on the ashes will arise the truth Church once again. It is just unfortunate so many souls will be misguided in the meantime, that innocent children must be mistreated by supposed men of God, and the name of the Church tarnished by usurpers.



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 11:43 PM
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reply to post by Misoir
 

Dear Misoir,

I am perfectly willing to accept the idea that Vatican II was a huge blow to the Church. "The Smoke of Satan" comes to mind. I have read several of Malachi Martin's Vatican books and they strike me as non-fiction slightly disguised.

I was encouraged when Benedict lifted the excommunications imposed by Paul VI. My question to you is simple. Can Benedict, and perhaps another Traditionalist pope following him, restore the Church to a safe path? I am not familiar enough with the true Traditionalist position to be any more than a student at someone's feet.

With respect,
Charles1952

P.s. I am not happy with the Mass changes that have just been introduced. In Lewis' words, they seem to be a "Liturgical fidget." Another comment from Lewis just popped into mind. "The reason we have limp-wristed liturgies is because we have limp-wristed liturgists."



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 11:48 PM
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reply to post by mike dangerously
 



The Vatican issued a statement Thursday criticizing the "methods" used in the journalistic investigation. But it confirmed that the letters were authentic by expressing "sadness over the publication of reserved documents."


"Sadness?" This is disgusting and especially revolting when you consider this is coming from the Church which should be setting examples and not engaged in MORE corruption themselves. I can't believe someone has it out for the Church. The Church is just getting bold and sloppy.


In its statement, the Vatican said the journalistic investigation had treated complicated subjects in a "partial and banal way" and could take steps to defend the "honor of morally upright people" who loyally serve the Church.
"defend the honor of morally upright people?" They have to be kidding. That isn't even a good cover.

Why do I feel this sort of cronyism occurs in all forms of government and in particular the USA today?

I think these tactics were originally begun by the Church, and remain with us in a loosely veiled system of corruption in our present government today.

edit on 27-1-2012 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)



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